We've talked about starting line-ups and what we'd prefer, but the subs have been left blank by a few people (including me). Given this is our ace card to play over what Barcelona can alter the game with, it's as essential to get right as the starting xi. What would your bench be, and who would you drop to accomodate those hallowed few? for me: Starters: VDS, Rafael, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Giggs, Valencia, Park, Rooney, Hernandez Bench: Koozy , Smalling, O'Shea, Scholes, Anderson, Nani, Berbatov* I think the bench is nightmarishly difficult to pick and far harder than the starters. I realise I've had to drop Fabio, Fletcher and Owen. My reasoning for each: - Fabio. I think either he or his brother will start and the other won't even be on the bench. If we have to sub someone in for defence, it's always going to be O'Shea. There's no way O'Shea will miss out, so it's unrealistic to dump him. - Fletcher. Too soon for him. Despite my rhetoric in another thread, I realise this guy isn't going to be on the bench over either Scholes or Anderson. - Owen. I think he's a much better impact sub than Berbatov, but again, not realistic to put him in over Berbatov, whose differing style alone probably warrants him a place. --- Have at thee.
We've got the same starters DS, bar Fabio for Rafa. Here's my bench: TommyK (I'm assuming Lindegaard is unavailable for selection) O'Shea Smalling Scholes Anderson Nani Owen I have no reservations about leaving Fletcher out. I do hesitate to get Scholes on the bench because for me, the only way I see him on the pitch is if things go very well or very poorly. I'm torn on Rafa/Fabio. I think Fabio can be an excellent impact sub, but it is likely that the job to do that on this stage for the wing, will fall to Nani. Owen over Berba for me is a no-brainer. For starters, Owen's confidence is higher right now and he's in general a better impact sub. Also, if we sub on a forward it is either because we're chasing the game or Cheech is knackered. I think Berbatov's tempo is suited to Pique and he'll be bothered by Busquets/Masch when he drops deep. I also think his movement is such that he needs more than 30 minutes on the pitch to work out where he can find space and not trip up Rooney. Owen's experience in Spain will help I think and if it goes to penalties, Owen would be a taker for my money. I'm also not against doing something unorthodox like Smalling/Vida at CF at the end of the game. Finally, I think even if things go to plan, we'll need to make a sub by minute 70, because of the running that we'll need to do. Tactics aside, I see Ando coming on (for Giggs) because of the impact he can make and the fact that he's a PK taker if it is close.
I'm with Johno's bench. He did the explaining. Just would 2nd the choice of Owen over Berba. I know in the long term, Berba not even making the squad could mentally screw him up quite a bit. But if we're talking about an impact sub, Owen is that man. He can also allow Rooney to move around some as Owen has been playing much deeper as of late. Owen will be buzzing after Sunday, while Berba looked mentally shattered. I'm not sure I'd even want him to play at Wembley.
The other thing is at his best, Berbatov's game is a slower pace and possession oriented. I don't think we'll have a chance to play to his liking if we have to sub on a striker it is probably due to not doing so well on the ball. The chance that he might help us retain possession is there, but the likely outcome is a hissyfit.
I'm a big fan of Owen and would love for him to play or at least be on the bench, but I dont think theres any chance of Berba not even making the bench.
You're probably right, I expect Owen to miss out. But if it were my choice, I'd definitely have him over Berba. Yes, as DS says, he allows us to play a different kind of game, but apart from 2 games this season where he actually made a sub impact, Berba would take 15-20 minute to even get into the flow of things. Owen comes on and has an eye for goal.
I don't see this being difficult at all. DS's first post is spot on and (barring any injuries) is what I'd expect to see squad-wise. People that want Owen over Berbatov in the squad are crazy. I can think of no scenarios where I'd like to see Owen on the field ahead of Berbatov.
well we all saw how berba responded to the "pressure" of trying to score a goal yesterady to win the golden boot outright. dude looked so weak mentally and looked defeated at the end. i think owen would be better at handling the pressure of a big game. Also Owen has the penchant for that "magical moment" (city derby) which Berbasulk doesnt have imo. but i do except to see berba on the bench ahead of owen. dont agree with it.
@Stud, the point of this thread is to see differing opinions; otherwise it would be boring. @kenny, you cant count to one goal/match to prove something. If you can, you can also look at Berbatov vs Liverpool.
I dont think it should be a matter of Owen over Berba, as I would like us to have both options on the bench. I would much rather Oshea not make the bench and have Smalling or Evans fill in where needed which would give us more impact options off the bench.
Thats why i said "IMO". Not trying to prove anything, because you really cant "prove" who should be on the bench. Just stating my opinion, which as you stated above, is the point of this thread.
There is no way SAF will only have 1 defender on the bench. LB is going to be under constant pressure, you want to put Smalling or Evans out of position there if something happens to Evra?
Hrm... I thought we'd see a few different benches, as I did expect to see a varied set of starting xi's. I'm wondering if there will be any upsets/surprises thrown into the mix by Fergie. I can't really see where a curve ball can be thrown, though. I hope we don't have any injuries on Saturday as Anderson and Nani off the bench are probably part of our penned strategy if the game is tight. That, and Giggs, Park and Hernandez may be dead on their feet come the 70 or so minute mark.
Awta. I am confident Fabio is starting too. And Fletcher will probably have his fitness tested over the course of the week.
Agree - if there are no injury issues, I'd take whatever twin is not starting over Evans on the bench.
Starting XI: VDS,Fabio, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Giggs, Park, Valencia, Rooney, Chicarito Bench: Kooz, Smalling, Rafael, Scholes, Anderson, Nani, Berbatov Fletcher - Has hardly played this season, can't be asked to play now. Would be too much of a risk IMO. Owen - Really like him, but only 1 striker get's the nod for me, which is Berbatov. Evans - Pushed out by Smalling. O'Shea - think Rafael is the better option. O'Shea experience may help but I think he's only necessary when playing a team which are very good in the air (which Barca are not) or if one of Rio and Vidic aren't playing.
I think Fletcher will make the bench -- to make up for him missing out in 2009. Starting -- VDS Rafael Rio Vidic Evra Carrick Giggs Valencia/Nani* Rooney Park Hernandez Bench-- PIG Smalling O'Shea Fletcher Anderson Nani/Valencia Berbatov * Everyone seems to think that Valencia plays. I'm wondering if that will be the case when his mo is to bring the ball up the side and send in a cross that doesn't result in a goal 95% of the time. Anyway, one or the other will play.
Putting in Fletch like that is far too sentimental for my liking. Even if his fitness if top notch, his match fitness is too far of the pulse. In the case of V1000, his MO of working the ball up and down the flanks like a robot isn't valued solely for his ability to serve in dangerous crosses -- there is also the entire aspect of wearing out his opposing fullback both physically and mentally. Do this all game long without relenting and there is a defensive mistake bound to occur. Throwing Nani on as a sub to attack Valencia's knackered LB would be far more impactful than having Nani start from the go. As a starting XI, I'd like to see the favored lineup so far: ------------VDS----------- Rafael---Rio----Vidic----Evra Valencia--Carrick--Giggs--Park ---------Rooney----------- ------------Chica---------- Subs: Kooz, O'Shea, Smalling, Anderson, Scholes, Nani, Owen These subs have to stand not only for the impact they can bring (which I think all of these players can, in some capacity), but for their value as injury replacements. This is where I come into conflict about Owen/Berbatov. As an impact sub, it's Owen over Berba no doubt. But if one of our starting strikers was to come off injured in the opening half, I would be more inclined to see Berbatov come on and get into the groove of the game. As it stands however, I would have to make the gut decision on Owen. Fletch, like I said, is too sentimental. It's either going to be one twin or the other, not both. O'Shea's impact could come in reshuffling the arrangement of midfield and allowing Rafa to push up more as a winger rather than being thrown forward (like one could do with Smalling, or have Smalling come in as LCB and have Vida thrown up as a desperation CF). Scholes is too valuable in what he offers both in the cutting off of a game if we are doing well, or as a game changing sub in the way we play the game if behind, that he has to be in the squad. Can't wait to see what the actual lineup. After some of the extremely deep analysis I've seen across these threads, I hope it's alot like (and pans out like) what the board consensus believes it should/can be.
Fletcher is not making the bench over Scholes, and honestly, he shouldn't be in the match day squad. He had some nice plays against Blackpool, but there were times when he was just outpaced and out of breath far too quickly. He just doesn't have this calibre of a game in him IMO.
Well, here's the way I see it: - If we're in need of goals, I'd like to be able to draw on one or both of Owen and Nani. - If we're up and need to retain possession, I'd like to have both Berbatov and Scholes at our disposal. - In the event of an early injury and the need for a like-for-like replacement, Berbs replaces Wayne, Berbs or Mickey replace Chico, and Nani replaces either winger. I suppose there could be an argument for Anderson to slot in at CM, but Carrick/Scholes > Carrick/Ando IMO. Giggs/Scholes has the potential for disaster, to be fair, but then so does Giggs/Ando. Anyway, we're probably ****ed regardless if Carrick goes down injured early on. So, the only way Anderson gets on my bench is for Smalling, and then we're left with O'Shea to cover for all four defensive spots, which is risky to say the very least.