your 23 for france

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by luvdagame, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    the Zerboni Brian argument is tactical. Comparing them is pointless. One is a defensive minded 6, the other is more of an all around CM. Brian is a more complete player than Zerboni, thats not really debatable. The issues are

    1. Health - We have to assume that the USSF are satisfied with Brians fitness trajectory. We will see if thats a good bet or not

    2. Roster construction - Is an Ertz back up more valuable than Brian ? Its unlikely either will start so you are making subjective call here based on possible outcomes. Brian can cover more roles that Zerboni in midfield

    3. Perception - The natural tendency is to favor the solid, hard working healthy player. Brian's so called "terrible" play is a lot better than people seem to realize. Maybe because she higher highs earlier and people measure her differently.

    Bottom line, Morgan is a better player, but i can see why some think she is a selection risk not worth taking.

    Why do we not feel the same about O'Hara ?
     
    CoachJon repped this.
  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I would put it differently...

    Morgan Brian from 2015 is the much better player. One of the USWNT's best.

    McCall Zerboni of 2019 is much better than Morgan Brian of 2017-2019, one of the NWSL's best.

    Oh, and Brian is the Ertz backup. That is where she played in 2015 and 2016. Jill is basically hoping she is healthy and back to her 2015 form. Both gambles seem very dubious and I believe Ellis has unnecessarily hurt our chances with this.

    Mewis covers for Horan and Lavelle (who is also injury prone) and Brian would not be ahead of her at either spot. Dunn, Lloyd, Press, Heath and Pugh have all played Lavelle's spot too recently.

    No, Zerboni has been the much better player in the NWSL for two years. But Ellis doesn't count NWSL play as far as I can tell.
     
  3. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    if you think Brian is the Ertz back up, then the selection does not harm the US much unless you think Ertz is a lock to get hurt early/
     
  4. Knight1Rider

    Knight1Rider Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Oct 5, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brian used to play a defended minded position, but that was in the 4-4-2 when she had help. Now in the 4-3-3 she has less help, and the position now requires more physical play, which she isn't necessarily suited for. I don't see her as an Ertz backup anymore. Brian is overall better than Ertz in the midfield, Ertz is just a ball winner and good in the air, which is why she is more suited for and thrives at CDM in the 4-3-3. I think they've been played Brian as a backup in the duel 8 positions. Maybe Jill Ellis will play her as an Ertz backup, we never know, but I see Long as more of the Ertz backup on this roster.
     
    Kevin625 and CoachJon repped this.
  5. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And their track record on that point is terrible for both the MNT and WNT. World Cup after World Cup and Olympics after Olympics we take injured players and players off of injury that aren't match fit for international championship level play.

    I'm not particularly pro-Zerboni, I'm strongly anti-unfit player. Morgan Brian should not be on this team. Whether the replacement is Zerboni or not is, for me, a separate discussion.

    It's hard to believe that the USWNT player pool isn't deep enough for us to be able to take a full roster of healthy and match fit players. Back before 2000, some allowances had to be made for both the MNT and WNT because the elite pools for both teams were very limited, but since WWC2003 (after 3 years of WUSA play) and WC2002 (after 6 1/2 seasons of MLS) there's really been no excuse, but here we are.
     
    Namdynamo, Kevin625, Tracer and 5 others repped this.
  6. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I miss Sermanni. The one WNT I can recall that really valued the domestic league. Back before I was known as a photographer, when I was a magazine editor and writer, I was sitting in the press box at Bobby Dodd in Atlanta before a Beat/Power WUSA game and I noticed Heinrichs sitting by herself. I went over and struck up a conversation/interview. I asked if she was there scouting players. She flat out told me that there was nothing there for her to see. Heinrich's selections over the following two years leading up to WWC2003 pretty much reinforced that statement. The 2001 WUSA defender of the year retired because she couldn't even get called into a camp. The 2002 WUSA goalkeeper of the year (of the double-winning Courage) didn't start getting called until a year after the league folded when Mullinix finally quit.
     
    Namdynamo, kolabear, CoachJon and 3 others repped this.
  7. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I agree with you. they have not earned the right to be trusted. An issue for me is the apparent lack of young players pushing this squad for places. For all the $$ spent in our p2p world, we do not seen to be turning out that many high calibre players.
     
  8. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think one bad ref (and this is a FIFA tournament) who is a little card happy and Ertz could easily be suspended for the quarterfinal game against France. With how Ertz plays, it is hard to see her not getting two yellows.
     
  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    This is a good point. Brian in 2015 was not playing in the 2019 USWNT formation or the role that any of the MFs are playing. In 2015, she took the ball from the defense and passed it to the offense. That was what she did so well and what the team needed and didn't have until Ellis was forced to play her.

    In 2019, the team mostly plays up the wings through the fullbacks and wingers, or long balls for Morgan to hold up. It doesn't seem that what Brian brings the team even could use.

    After all this, I would take Brian over Sullivan or Long. As she would not have to play at all except against Thailand.
     
  10. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    your point about how we have de-emphasized combination play thru the middle of the park is a very good one. As fans, we have a tendency to project players based on how WE would play. Brian is less valuable in a team that does not build play patiently thru midfield.

    The way the US play at present, a ball winner who is less proficient in possession may well be of more use.
     
  11. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    If the issue is seen just as Brian vs Zerboni and just as which backs up Ertz, it seems more than obvious that it should be Zerboni.

    But that's not the way you build a roster. Whitey Herzog used to say he put more thought into choosing the last guy on the roster than all the others combined, because that choice was the one that finalized all the other roles available on the team.

    But if the choice is Brian, I would assume that Ertz' backup in this roster configuration is Mewis, or maybe some combination of Mewis and Long. Brian is just a completely different kind of player from Ertz...

    And lets not forget that it is not Bryan Unfit, Zerboni Fit. They've both had injury-and-fitness issues in the very recent past, it is just that Brian's were more protracted.
     
    FanOfFutbol and Knight1Rider repped this.
  12. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just listened to the 700 Club interview. She did not say anything about LGBTQ people going to hell. The most one could say about that is that she leaves herself open, in how she describes her religion as well as in her doing the interview with The 700 Club, to a reasonable interpretation that it's what she believes. To post that it's what she said, however, is wrong.
     
    CoachJon and jjmack repped this.
  13. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And we found out years later why Herzog traded KC's fan favorite cleanup hitter to Toronto for essentially a bag of balls and a fungo bat. But Herzog lost the locker room and was eventually replaced.

    The last player can be an important "glue" pick, but they still need to be able to play. You can't magically get World Cup level "match fit" during the tournament. There are a 100 counter examples from Zinedine Zidane in Korea/Japan to Megan Rapinoe in Rio to Hege Riise in USA 2003 to John O'Brien in Germany 06.

    Tony Meola was an inspired pick as the third goalkeeper in 2002. A war was simmering between Friedel and Keller. Both made noise about not going if they weren't the #1. While Howard and Rimando waited in the wings, they weren't really ready - and they weren't ready to be the #2 if a red card/injury happened. But Meola was. His WCQ GAA is 0.0. It was Meola, not Keller or Friedel that was in net in the do or die game in Barbados in 2000 (that was still 0-0 in the 70th minute). Meola was past his prime, but he had 7 World Cup games to his resume, and was less than two years removed from an MLS and MLS Cup MVP season. He knew his position in Korea/Japan was to be the consummate pro. If Keller or Friedel had bailed while Meola remained, it would've tarnished their own legacy. Meola was the best choice.

    But he was healthy, and would've been better than at least a third of the starting goalkeepers at that World Cup.

    Morgan Brian is not match fit. She's not going to get match fit without playing a bunch of matches. There aren't enough matches left for that to happen. We should take players who are healthy and ready.

    I've seen this movie. It rarely ends well. The only saving grace is that she really is at the end of the bench, and not currently seen as a starter or first option off the bench.
     
    lil_one and Kevin625 repped this.
  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    If you can't argue about the last player, what is the point of a place like BS? Haha

    I would think you could just say, "end of bench, who cares" except that we have no backup for Ertz or Dunn that I have seen play well against quality competition since the last Olympics. As it is, I guess O'Hara backs up Dunn. But O'Hara is as unfit as Brian it seems.

    This isn't really on Brian. It is McDonald that is really the last player and the one taken over an Ertz backup or Dunn backup. I can see why McDonald is on the roster, which kind of means one of the other forwards is superfluous. In that way, Ellis has too many CFs (counting Lloyd) for the 4-3-3.
     
  15. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    If I was inclined to give Ellis credit, it could be that the "Ertz replacement" is a double pivot with Horan and Mewis. Personally, I would start Mewis, I think she is one of the 3 best players in the player pool. But Ellis prefers Lavelle. But, no Ertz, or Ertz at CB, and you could see a 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 with that double pivot.

    Maybe they will practice that a bit before they get to France.
     
    holden and jnielsen repped this.
  16. Knight1Rider

    Knight1Rider Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Oct 5, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morgan Brian has participated in every Chicago game this season, and just started the last game. If she wasn't ready, they wouldn't have taken her, as Jill Ellis said. And it's not like she's coming off a serious injury, just a few nagging ones
     
  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The same Jill Ellis that said Rapinoe would be good for the Olympics?
     
  18. Knight1Rider

    Knight1Rider Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Oct 5, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rapinoe was coming off an ACL injury
     
  19. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Subbing in and starting one game isn't the same as being "match fit" - especially now that she's likely to take another month without playing in a match.
     
  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    What does that matter? All the more reason to distrust Ellis's ability to figure out if a player is fit or not. She took a player, on an 18 women roster, to the second biggest tournament that had an ACL and hadn't played.

    Do we even have to mention her running Lavelle into a new injury after she had been out for 6 months in Sweden? She had just come back, only had maybe 10 minutes in the previous NWSL game, and Ellis started her in Norway then Sweden until she blew her hamstring.

    She consistently throws O'Hara back out there in meaningless friendlies and she hasn't been right. She has even played Brian these past 18 months when she should have been resting.

    Brian might be fine. I have no reason to doubt the Red Stars staff, but don't tell me I should trust Ellis and her staff. I think chances are good that Brian starts, goes 70' into a match, re-injures herself, and is replaced on the roster (is that possible?) in the next two games. Probably against South Africa when we are up 7-0. Zerboni will then replace her and Jill Ellis will luck into the right decision again.
     
  21. Knight1Rider

    Knight1Rider Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Oct 5, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Subbed in twice and started once, making a huge impact on each game she played in.
     
  22. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Davidson.

    And if you are going to say people don't count because you haven't seen them play well against quality opposition since the last Olympics, don't you also have to accept that half the teams we will be playing aren't "quality opposition," so the backups won't need to have played well against same...Everybody on this roster has played well against someone who isn't a minnow except Franch and maybe Brian.
     
  23. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Suppose that the scenario you have composed actually happens.

    Why would it not suggest to you that Ellis gave it a chance to happen before it could really hurt anything, rather than her lucking into something?
     
    CoachJon repped this.
  24. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bwah ha ha ha![emoji48]
     
    Kevin625 repped this.
  25. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    She was invisible in Cary. I only noticed she played after the fact when processing my photos and captioning them, I thought, "that looks like Morgan Brian". It did because it was.
     

Share This Page