writing in caps does not make your pure speculation any more factual than my speculation. I have seen Regionallia games and I have held MLS season tickets various years since '96 and I have seen MLS reserve games and I have seen Ered reserve games and I have seen USL games and I think Enochs (a few years ago when I last saw him) was the kind of steady, defense minded, tough, big hearted DM (kind of a Danny Califf of the midfield) that would hold his own (but be unexceptional) in the MLS with no problem. He would never be a star, but is a more defensive Vagenas. But of course, that is my opinion. And that is beside the point of the argument. In fact, it again proves the thread - if Joe Enochs types are not good enough for MLS but are good enough for Bund2 or 3, they're going to go to Europe as Bund 2 or 3 generally (but not always) pays better than Charlotte or Vancouver. And the US will produce plenty of Joe Enochs types over the next 20 years.
One doesn't even have to go that far. MLS is yet to develop a mid-tier star, someone who would be a target for the upper and mid-level EPL/B-liga/La Liga teams and can command a transfer fee in the region of $3-$7M. Eddie Johnson came the closest for the alleged $4M bid by Benfica but that never went through. So, not counting the Tim Howard ~ $3.5M sale, MLS has not produced a single field player of even nominal quality. And for a league to have aspirations of adequacy but to have produced no talent worth paying for is both abysmal and absurd. BTW, Beasley went for a couple of mil and is probably considered a bad buy at this point by PSV.
I doubt Beasley is considered a bad buy by PSV - well, they are Dutch and did have to spend money, so sure, they probably consider it a bad buy, but only in a very Dutch way. He is no superstar at PSV and has not, it appears, endeared himself to fans, but he got lots and lots of minutes (despite his failure rep here) and when he was on the bench, he was replaced by some fairly promising talent. Convey had to be much higher on the "bad buy" list his first season at Reading - and this year had to be considered fairly cheap if they feel he contributed in any material way to going up. You also miss no-Ams like Shaun Bartlet, Nelson and Elliot - so there has been a trickle of talent, but it is not yet what it should (or even could) be since MLS has not pursued (for good or bad) an agressive "sell on" policy. But all beside the point. The young Ams to Europe will be a numbers game - salary and roster spots - in the immediate future. Relative to population there are a lot more roster spots outside of the US that pay a living wage. Some number of guys that want to play the most for the most coin will have to look outside MLS/USL.
And how many American players have developed to that level in Europe? This argument is silly. The US has yet to develop any of those types of players ........... period. Whether it be in MLS or abroad. I love it how people rip MLS for not creating breakout American stars while conveniently forgetting that other leagues haven't made stars out of our guys either. The big problem isn't MLS. The hurdle to overcome is at the younger developmental ages. Again, wake me up when Europe makes one of our guys into a game changing star. Until then, this is all a moot argument.
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT MISTAKE IS A HUMAN. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT DINOSAURS EXISTED. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT MLB IS BETTER THANA JAPANESE BASEBALL
Seriously appoo, do you really believe that the German 3rd and 4th divisions are better than MLS? Honestly?
No knowledge = No Argument.. That's what I've come to learn about you. Yet to see you make a valid argument in any thread, you just ramble on and on and on in mindless rants.
Let's take the case of Benny Feilhaber shall we? Easily the best player on our U20 team, would have easily been the top pick in the MLS draft, decides to play for HSV reserves, who are either BL3 or 4, said he struggled to cope with the physical nature of the league and had to take some time to acclimate himself. if you say that Benny would comparitivly struggle in the MLS reserve league, then...well I would just hope you wouldn't say that
MLS??? hell no. He's saying MLS reserves are better than those leagues though. Sorry, he's saying there is no evidence that BL3 or 4 are better than MLS Reserves.
Ohhhhhh, my bad. I just saw MLS. My mistake. Our reserves are poor for the mere fact that we don't have enough players to really make up a reserve roster. Inevitably, there are about 5 or 6 players a game that appear to be picked up in the parking lot before the game, in order to play.
yea I know. MLS reserves is nothing but a positive....but I don't think anyone is gonna mistake it as a developmental league just yet. Probably a few years downt he road when they increase roster caps and start putting through Academy kids
What evidence do you have that BL3 or 4 is better than MLS Reserves.. Instead of responding like a rambling fool, make your point. I'm waiting. I've seen Regionalliga and Oberliga live, in person, over a year ago. Osnabruck was one of the better teams in Regionalliga Nord, they barely missed relegation. They are a very poor quality team. I don't think they would stand a chance of making MLS playoffs. I didn't see a single Regionalliga team team who I thought were of MLS quality. I would rate them on par with midlevel A-League teams.. I think Richmond Kickers would finish near the top of the Regionalliga. If MLS reserves are better than Richmond Kickers (I don't know, perhaps they are not, but I've never seen them play!), Most of the reserve teams for the Bundesliga big clubs finished in the bottom half of Regionalliga. They have a few promising players but most of the team is crap. It's far from a foregone conclusion (comparing it to Dinosaurs existing is just moronic) that Germany 3rd or 4th is better than the bench players on MLS, when 80% of the players in Regionalliga couldn't crack an MLS roster if they tried. You are making an assumption based on something you THINK you know. You do NOT know at all.
Well, let's see... Brad Friedel, Claudio Reyna and John O'Brien once were in that mid-level range. Gooch can still be. Maybe even Cory Gibbs. Steve Cherundolo may have been there, had he chosen to leave Hannover. Jonathan Spector went for ~ $850K to West Ham at the age of 20. Given the paucity of the US players in the big leagues, even the above numbers represent a sizable percentage. That's not correct. I don't see anyone with John O'Brien's skills coming out of MLS.
Have we seen anyone with his skills anywhere coming out of the US or playing in Europe? Just saying, arguement doesn't seem right when there was only one for several years or so anywhere. Thats' sad. Isn't it.
Claudio reyna is a game changer? Gooch is a game changer? Gibbs is a game changer? JOB? Cherundolo? Spector?? Are you kidding me? NONE of those guys are a "world class game changing player", which was the criteria of the guy that I quoted. Not whether or not they are nice little players, or have picked up big paychecks in transfer. Brad Friedel may be your best bet, but that is based upon one WC. You haven't listed a single WORLD CLASS GAME CHANGING PLAYER. The US simply hasn't produced any, at home or abroad. Continuing to heap nearly all the blame on MLS for this is simply folly.
CR was already on the scene appoo, and yes, I have high hopes for Benny also, but it's still early. In between CR 94 and Benny 2005, was there anyone other than JOB? Anyhwere?
Convey, Donovan, Beasley. 3 matches doesn't negate their talent. All produced by MLS. All pretty good players. It still remains to be seen where they end up.
But you responded to my post and that wasn't a criteria that I had set up. If you say that no US player has ever garnered a fee of over $30M like Wayne Rooney or Andriy Schevchenko, then you'd be correct. My standards were set much lower and, in this instance, made more sense - I wanted to see the number of $3-8M transfers coming out of MLS, an amount that would define a good but not necessarily a great player. So, the fact is that several Yanks Abroad, at the verious stages of their careers, have been valued at that amount. No MLS player, sans Tim Howard, has been. Now, compare the number of the American born players who have been in the Big 6 Euro leagues (Reyna, O'Brien, Keller, Casey, Friedel, Stewart) for a reasonable duration of time and the percentage of them with this mid-star valuation is pretty high. The percentage of the MLS players with this valuation is next to zero and that defines the MLS quality more than anything else.
I guess i wasn't specific. My fault. I was talking about skilled/vision oriented/ball control/touch pass type mids and LD, BC and DMB most especially do not fill that mold. LD and BC are more slashers as we know and if reports about DMB are true I worry about him. I hope his attitude isn't an issue, but we will find out about him quick, especially with EK in charge at PSV. I truely worry about DMB's future.