Younger Yanks will choose playing abroad

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by banbaseball, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. Mistake

    Mistake New Member

    Jun 13, 2006

    There are $40k players scattered through the lower divisions. They are unproven, unknown players who were handed a chance after a trial.. They are teammates with $250k-$500k players.

    What on earth made you believe that every player in Europe makes similar coin to their teammates
     
  2. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Have you visited your optomitrist lately?
     
  3. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    But what they don't have is teams where one guy makes 900k and another guy (who might even be a starter) is making 30k. Thats the disparity I am talking about.

    That kind of disparity is a poor way to manage resources.
     
  4. Peter Wilt

    Peter Wilt Member

    Jun 11, 1999
    Whitefish Bay, WI
    i don't consider MLS All-Stars like Corrales, Convey, Barrett, Califf, Elliot and Kovalenko to be "mid-level" players. Sorry about the semantics. i agree that All-Star players like these should be kept in the League, but half a dozen examples of All-Stars leaving MLS over the last five years is not the difference between MLS getting to the next level or not.

    A well executed "designated player" rule could get MLS to the next level on and off the field.

    peter
     
  5. Mistake

    Mistake New Member

    Jun 13, 2006
    Again, you have no evidence of this, except your own speculation. I am almost certain that you are wrong.

    The $50k players might be reserve players, but I promise you that many many Euro clubs are paying $1m and $50k salaries to members of their squad.
     
  6. Mistake

    Mistake New Member

    Jun 13, 2006
    Also.. the guys who are making $30k-$40k in MLS are guys who were completely unproven at the professional level and until this point in their career, their potential is unknown.

    Just a couple players:

    Justin Mapp, started off at $35k, now at $101k.
    Brian Namoff, started off at $27k, now at $83k.
    Jose Burciaga, started off at $29k, now at $72k.
    Brian Ching, started off at $32k, now at $173k.


    There are dozens and dozens of other players who got paid the same as these guys did 2-3 years ago, and failed miserably and are no longer in the league.

    The guys who perform, will get paid in this league. Could they make more overseas? Who knows. But stop pretending like MLS is screwing the "bottom rung".

    The top players will continue to go overseas,.. Beasley and McBride leaving cleared 250k-350k or whatever off the books in Chicago and Columbus.. Those teams can bring in a bunch of prospects for 30-40k each and one or two of the blossoming stars such as Ching or Dempsey. Once one of these players outgrows the team and league and the league receives a transfer fee offer, they will head overseas and the process will repeat itself. I don't see anything wrong with that. MLS is doing it's job. They cannot afford to keep all the future national team prospects here in the league.

    But to the topic.. The only time I see mediocre (50k/year) MLS players heading overseas is when no clubs here want them anymore.
     
  7. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    Nice caveat.
     
  8. Mistake

    Mistake New Member

    Jun 13, 2006

    Well.. How many underpaid MLS reserves are going overseas and cracking the first teams of 1st or 2nd division clubs?

    The entire premise of this thread is absurd.
     
  9. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    you are talking about the Beckham exception I presume?

    I have a tough time believing that would get MLS to the next level of play. And you can see evidence of it in the field of play.

    Look at the LA Galaxy, who already have a Beckham exception player in Landon Donovan, and compare the Galaxy to the Houston Dynamo, who I don't think havea single max salaried player....but do have about a dozen good players with comensurate salary. Which team plays the better soccer? If MLS really wants to bring in foreign talent...it should be mid 20s players.
     
  10. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    And what are the semantics of "any"?
     
  11. Peter Wilt

    Peter Wilt Member

    Jun 11, 1999
    Whitefish Bay, WI
    the semantics is of "mid level". i don't consider all-stars to be "mid level", you apparently do.

    peter
     
  12. Peter Wilt

    Peter Wilt Member

    Jun 11, 1999
    Whitefish Bay, WI
    i agree that having a good core is important and indeed more important to on field success than one great player, but if you add one great player to Houston, then it takes Houston to the next level. This is not an either/or issue.

    And, using your LA example, i really don't believe MLS would call Donovan the Galaxy's "designated player". i am certain that Beckham would be added in addition to Donovan and if you don't believe that would take the Galaxy to the next level on and off the field, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Given the level the Galaxy has been this season, that "next level" doesn't necessarily mean world class level, but it would probably put them in the upper echelon of MLS, which is certainly a level above where they have been this season.

    Our next debate can be about the definition of "next level" ;).

    peter
     
  13. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    The Galaxy benefited more from a decent coach than from a player acquisition.

    One bad coach down ... half a dozen still to go.
     
  14. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    So you stand by your statement that you don't see "any" MLS players going to Europe that aren't "all stars" (and yeah, I don't consider every guy who ever made the 30 + all star list in a 200 player league "not mid level") But even if that's your criteria, you have seen NO MLS guys that weren't all-stars go to Europe, ever?

    Again, find a good eye doctor, make an appointment.
     
  15. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Well, the premise of the thread is guys like Feilhaber, Spector, Lee etc. who never were "underpaid MLS reserves" but guys taking a different route.

    This will, of course, continue for a number of reasons, one of which is there aren't that many spots open in MLS. There can only be so many central middies in the league. And if you aren't starting or at least getting decent minutes in MLS, you are really languishing. At some point, players have to leave. It will either start at the top - the "all stars" jumping ship for bigger paydays/new adventures/changes of scenery, or the new guy thinking - "I can sit on the bench at LA waiting for Landon to get called up for a qualifier or I can take my chances with Hamburg that van der Vaart and few others will get hurt/need time off.

    You can scoff all you want at Bund regionallia or Dutch reserve squads, but they play a higher level than MLS reserves or a loan to Ocean City or Harrisburg. And Euro teams generally have more games and therefore more chances to see first team action. It won't be for everyone, but until MLS gets a thriving reserve or "minor league" system working, more kids will look abroad because of the finances and the greater potential upside (and, even if they don't catch fire, MLS will still be an option.) It is simply a function of the US player pool getting stronger and deeper.
     
  16. Peter Wilt

    Peter Wilt Member

    Jun 11, 1999
    Whitefish Bay, WI
    No players that i would consider mid level on an MLS roster. There are 28 on a roster. You're saying that there has been a player who could be considered the 14th best player on the roster who has left MLS to play in Europe.

    Please name names.

    peter
     
  17. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Will Johnson? :D
     
  18. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    He might be talking about someone like Jay DeMerit, who for some reason never showed an MLS (or even an A-League side) that he was worthy, but who somehow is now playing for a team in the premiership.j

    But that's not exactly a common story.
     
  19. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA

    we USA first fans have a bit different view of things :)

    I probably should have said this first, but I was basically going with a definition of "if you're an MLS player, and you're not a National Team player, you're a midlevel player".
     
  20. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I think LA would vault into the level of DC and Houston with Beckham AND Donovan, but you lost me at Donovan not being a designated player. The man makes 900K. How would an exemption work?
     
  21. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA
    Not to jump in here too much.... but I wouldn't say that the 14th best player is considered midlevel talent.

    Maybe it's semantics, but I would define the different "levels" of talent per team more like...
    superstars -- the premier players on each team such as Donovan, Twellman, Dempsey, etc. There may be 1-3 per team.
    Stars - these are the players that will make the allstar team but aren't of the level of the superstars. here there are probably up to 5 per team.
    Average players - these players are role players, who get the job done, but probably can move to most teams but it wouldnt' be a high profile trade/deal. There would be 5-8 of these per team. Note some non-starters can be in this category.
    Less than average - these are the players that are borderline on the team and even borderline starters. I'd probably argue these round out the field and definitely comprise players 15-28 on the roster.

    So for me.... a "mid-level" player would be akin to my "average" tag which would probably be someone who didn't necessarily shine in MLS and could be anywhere from the 6th - 14th best player on a team.

    I think midlevel would apply to starters and main subs so this seems to ring true... but this is just my opinion on the terminology
     
  22. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Simek, Whitbread, Karby- Europe is not a panacea, believe me.
     
  23. Peter Wilt

    Peter Wilt Member

    Jun 11, 1999
    Whitefish Bay, WI
    The extra salary for Landon (and Eddie and Freddy and others) is being shared by all owners and thus he is not a "designated player" exception.

    Beckham's salary, I believe in some fashion, would be paid by the Galaxy.

    peter
     
  24. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    NowI see the issue.

    we're talking talent, you're talking roster spots. I would consider Danny Califf a mid-level talent. just an average player.
     
  25. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA

    the distinction being "American" vs "Non-American"?
     

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