Must you respond confrontationally to everyone? I am not even criticising you. I am simply pointing out that the use of Mini Bob is not an appropriate counter point to the assertions that poster made. As it stands no MLS reserve player is going to pull down that lind of coin. Mini Bob wasn't a reserve player in his time with Metro he was either out injured or away with some national team duties.
sorry rommul, not attempting to be confrontational to your response. much gets lost in internet translation. it's only that several people seem to be hung up about one minor thing that i said in my original post. my point is: kids would rather go to HOLLAND or GERMANY rather than chancing a starting position or having to play another weekend in the reserve match. they will look at the example of previous highly touted ynt players and think again before coming here. players like szetela, for instance, who seems to be perpetually on the cusp of greatness or lameness. i would argue that it's mainly because of his professional development that this is the case. mini bob, on the other hand, didn't get finalize his move to heerenveen until he had 1.25 years of first team play. He too, would have as easily, IMO, been lost in the shuffle if he didn't have a coach who was keenly aware of his abilities. thus willing to give him a shot at first team play. for every zimmerman or nguyen to go overseas, there is a "rising star" who chooses to stay even though he has other offers to play elsewhere (i.e. already mentioned szetela, but more on point, arvizu, alitidore, cameron, lanni). these players who have chosen mls may get some first team time here and there, but not enough to gain vital stats or catch the eye of int'l coaches. therefore players like nakazawa are thinking twice, thrice, and more before going to MLS and will, imo, INCREASINGLY choose to go to Germany and Holland rather than chancing being "lost" in MLS abiss for 3 or more years before getting any whiff of first team play.
Am I the only person in the world who thinks its a good idea to keep players in MLS and put them out on loan overseas. I seem to remember McBride being loaned out all the time.
Last time I checked, Michael Bradley isn't/wasn't an MLS reserve player. Check your facts before you open your trap. The minimum foreign pay is a reason only the most promising Americans goto Holland. Random American hacks (who would probably be MLS reserves or less) are scattered all over Europe.. Jeremy Cue, David Yelldell, Ryan Coiner, Kevin Simmons.. blah blah blah, could go on and on about the numerous guys scattered in Germany, lower UK leagues, and Scandanavian. They aren't making jack. But I guess that's better than being a USL/A-Leaguer. Most of these guys struggle bigtime financially. Some of them barely get by in these lower leagues while they hope to breakthrough and score a big deal somewhere. Quit pretending that every American that goes overseas is automatically awarded big paychecks. You're just becoming obnoxious with it.
We had a thread looking at this: MLS pay is just about league 1 ( or really league 3) in England, which puts it below many top leagues in Europe, but above the much smaller ones. To say players struggle overseas is accurate, as is it to note that they struggle stateside, as well.
League 1 average pay was ~ $150K, which makes it somewhat higher than MLS's average, although probably fairly close adjusted for the Euro cost of living and taxation. I think what makes a big difference here is MLS's single entity structure. In Europe, if you "outplay" your contract, it's much easier to move on to bigger and better things. But you ain't getting a raise by moving to and fro MLS clubs.
Because the MLS is in season and the players are in peak shape while the Euro players have just played a 9 month season
Ben Olsen was loaned to Nott. Forest and played very well. Fan fav and they were going to make a bid for him I believe. Then he gets a serious injury and has never been the same. Forest of course don't sign him and he is damaged goods to MLS. Hell, look at Rico Clark. He got hurt while training in Spain, in a supposed friendly, which ruined any chance of making the 2006 roster. That was just training. I understand why MLS won't do it. BTW - Wouldn't it have been nice to see someone with Rico's athletic ability on the field in the cup? I rememebr when Mapp turned down the invite verus Jamaica. These youngguys knew there was no way they would be given a fair shake IMO. Off topic and I'm sorry, but this post just made me remember that. That's all. BA had his boys and that was that.
I made a similar point regarding Germany on some Klinsmann related thread - neither country is all that skilled on average (the Germans however can fire bullets from outside), so they may as well have relied on speed and size to get by. Besides, Clark is a decent passer and can actually shoot as well.
But his statement was a MLS reserve player not a starter. Last time I chekced Bradley had been a starter with the then Metroscum. I think he was trying say, that's it's not likely that a MLS development player could make a easy transition to Europe. So maybe you need to calm down. Also, back to your orginal post, one of your complaints was that some players hadn't developed in MLS because their coaches didn't motivate them to imporve. It's too bad if we have to movitate a young very talented player to want to improve. I doubt if going to Europe is going improve this. I can't see a coach in Holland or Germany pulling a under achieving player aside and saying "what's wrong, don't you realise how much talent you have?" I think for this issue there a middle ground. I agree that for some players going to Holland and Germany is just what they need to do to improve and grow as players. However, I also think that it's not for everyone and some players would do well to stay here. Overall, I don't think that there is some magic bullet suddenly improve the development of our players for the international game.
While I agree with your general point we all have to realise that the number of kids who even have a remote chance of exercising these kinds of options is (and probably will remain) small. The answer (if we assume that the problem is that we need better youth development) is for MLS to provide a more professional environment for young players to enter. At both the first team level and the youth team level.
At some point a decision has to be made as to what value large numbers of quality players means to the league.
Another big difference is the way those teams in europe spend money as opposed to the way MLS teams spend money (or should I say how they allocate resources. When the salary numbers came out last year one of the pundits ran the numbers and calculated that about 43% of the players in MLS make less than 30k a year. There is a big disparity in compensation in MLS that doesn't exist overseas. Being an average player in a league with an average salary of over 100k is going to be more lucrative than being an average player in MLS where the average salary is over 100k. We have this idea in this country that an inirdinate percentage of team salary should be dedicated to a small number of big names. I think Peter Wilt made some reference this in an interview recently I think this is one of the lessons we really need not adopt form other team sports in this country. We need quality all over the field.
Wilt's statement sounds like one of those show-bidness bromides - put out a crappy album/TV show/movie with a big name star and hope that the star justifies the investment. The problem comes from the fact that the perceived quality of the product, Academy Awards/Grammy's/Emmy's are an additional factor in one's Hollywood career. The important thing is the box office. In sports, big names are nice and can sometimes bring extra revenues to justify their pay (Beckham does it for Real, Donovan may or may not have done it for AEG last year ... I wonder how many Donovan shirts they'll sell this year after the Cup) but the overwhelming desire, with rare exceptions, is to produce a winner on the field of play. In that instance, the team concept requires that those who perform are compensated in a fashion similar to those who sell T-shirts. As you can see from the top club experience, Real balked at giving Claude Makelele the galactico level pay, acting according to Wilt's theory, and subsequently went the next two years without winning a thing. Of course, they're doing fine financially because Becks, Raul and Ronaldo keep packing them in. Then comes the question of judgement and MLS had laid out chunks of cash on players with very low value on the pitch, presuming that their presense will pay off in the box office. But I'd want to see their calculations of the cause&effect of signing some of the so-called big names. I'd bet that the actual outcomes rarely justified the original investment.
I don't think P. Wilt really believes this but he is in a position of power that requires him to take certain stances. One of the criticisms of him from an AEG standpoint (unfair I think) was that he didn't have the so-called "fire in the belly" to sell tickets. I think these kinds of statements from Peter are attempt to make it clear that he has a keen grasp of the issues surrounding sports buisness. Frankly the guy did a very good job integrating a fractured fanbase and built a solid core for the organisation to build on. Just so it doesn't seem that we are entirely dragging this thread off topic allow me to make this observation. As the game becomes more sophisticated here and parents and young players advance their thinking a bit MLS will have to deal with the perception (if the nature, not necessarily quality, of the product remains the same) that the league may not be the best place for the best young players to further advance their tradecraft. If MLS is not seen as a place that will provide the right challenges (just because there is a challenge does not mean that it is enough of a challenge for the players involved) for an ambitious young player that is not good for the league. That perception already exists among many people here Well we have to accept that we as spectators and MLS' owners as invbestors may not prioritise the same things. Box office may very important to them while what happens on the pitch might not be so important.
I think some are misinterpreting my comments. I certainly wasn't advocating spending high end money on "big name" players who wouldn't improve the caliber of play. I was simply stating that now is a better time for investing in star players, because there are more ways to recoup the investment (suites, naming rights, parking, concessions, etc.) Than in the pre-SSS era). Further, I believe increasing payroll for midlevel players is folly, because it won't improve the quality of play enough to justify the increased expense. The additional money would likely go to the same players who are currently in the League or similar caliber players. peter
Well I don't advocate throwing max salry contracts at players already in the league but I think its pretty obvious that not having quality mid level players damages the ability of any team/league to put real quality on the field. Clearly losing your mid level players won't increase the quality of play either.
Ummmm.....I don't see a whole lotta (read ANY) mid level MLS players going to Europe (except on vacation). peter
what about the likes of Danny Califf and Wade Barrett (even though he's come back), and Ramiro Corrallas? Michael Bradley? Unless he demanded to move, letting him go was perhaps the worst move MLS has made since buying Luis Hernandez. None of these guys went to a Big 4 league. Or a Big name team in a lesser league It's one thing to lose Simon Elliott to Fulham or DaMarcus Beasley to PSV....but these sides in Norway?
Depending about what you are referring to as mid level, but I would say that Simon Elliott, Dema Kovalenko, Romiro Corrales, and Nat Borchers were not exactly top level. Danny Califf had mixed years in MLS. Bobby Convey was not an automatic for DC United when he was transferred. In fact, I doubt that he would have started in the MLS Cup that year. Corrales could have added to SJ's depth, the Crew could definately use Elliott, and Borchers was really solid. I understand your point, but some quality is lost from those players. As for the younger yanks, the biggest issues probably include work permits, salary requirements for foreigners, and the difficult transition abroad.
The lower divisions all over Europe, just like MLS, have there guys that are making $250k+ and there guys who are making $30k-$40k.
And mind you, these players have gone to Europe (add Adin Brown, Brian West and potential MLS players like Heath Pearce and Robbie Russell) despite some fairly restrictive non-EU labor laws. With Germany, a country traditionally open to the American players, doing away with any sort of foreign player limits for its top two leagues, the exodus of the current and potential MLS talents will only increase. It isn't going to be just Keller, Casey, Berhalter, Feilhaber and Zimmerman anymore. In most countries, guys who can only make $40K won't be in the same leagues as guys who make $250K.