Younger Yanks will choose playing abroad

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by banbaseball, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. banbaseball

    banbaseball Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    East of the Bay
    Perusing through the YNT threads to steal some small bit of hope for the future of US soccer and WC 2010, I've come to the decision that more and more of our youth "gems" will increasingly choose to play abroad rather than stay and play in MLS. Taking the example of Nguyen, Zimmerman, Feilhaber, and Spector, young players with skill will jump at the chance to go to Holland and Germany. This will happen for several reasons that far out-weigh the benefits of playing in our league.

    1. The USNT's showing at the WC proves that we need players who have skills and experience that go beyond the players that we have now. I'm not attempting to argue who showed better at the WC, MLS or YA players, just that we need to begin developing "stars" who can not simply match up with but play alongside other "stars." That means find themselves the target of La Liga and Serie A. It's time for the US to produce our own Ballack, Ronaldhino, etc. Again, these players come but once every two decades but the US must have at least 1 in our whole history.

    2. Young players would rather struggle to find a spot on the first team bench in Holland or Germany and make $200,000 rather than disappear into the reserve league in MLS. Nobody wants to become the next Memo, Capano, or Jimenez. This is not entirely their fault (although Memo has had enough chances) but that our clubs don't have enough talent and INTEREST/CAPITAL to develop young players like other leagues. Seeing players like Martino, Santino, and Szetela, drives me to tears at how much talent is waisted because coaches don't know how to motivate them as people as much as players.

    3. I've been a fan of MLS long enough to know that it runs itself something like a mob outfit. Who can ever forget how much loyalty and time McBride had to pay before MLS would let him ply his trade across the pond? There are countless examples of players who were "bullied" out of playing in other more prestigious clubs and were forced to wait until their talent began to dwindle. At which point, they could only get paychecks from lower tier clubs or have to go to Norway or Iceland to get a club who wants them. Of course MLS is going to look out for its interests first and having a player like EJ play here far better serves MLS than going abroad. But what I AM SAYING is that younger players won't even bother to deal with MLS' lame contracts. Example, Dempsey is making how much compared to how much Memo is making?

    4. Landon Donovan.

    Tell me what you all think.
     
  2. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I think you forgetting a lot of barriers of entry into the European market for young players
     
  3. pething101

    pething101 Member

    Jul 31, 2001
    Smyrna, Ga
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ya know what this forum needs ... is a list, country by country of rules, regualtions, stipulations or anything else for playing soccer in that country.

    That would be a nice sticky.
     
  4. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think they'll play whereever they get the best contract offers. Unless we're raising a generation of idiots.
    (this does not mean they'll go to Europe. Some will get decent offers from MLS and stay, I'm sure. some will get better offers from elsewhere).
     
  5. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I'm not so sure.

    As the level of U.S. youth players rises over time, more players will surely be offered the chance to try their luck overseas with good clubs that offer decent pay, training and opportunity. Remember that good American players have been turning down such opportunities for years already to stay here with MLS or colleges.

    Further, it's not unreasonable to assume that the level of play, as well as financial wherewithal, of MLS will also rise over time. I assume that as the league's means increase, it will be in a position to offer more of this country's top young players the opportunity to make a decent wage at home. (This is to say nothing of the USL and the investments of overseas clubs, which will probably benefit the domestic game substantially.)

    Never underestimate the draw of staying at home -- American basketball players can make vastly more in many European leagues, for example, than they can in the U.S. minor leagues, but many chose to stay here anyway.

    And college will continue to take the statistical majority of the top several thousand American players each year.

    The sort of changes to the U.S. soccer culture required for a permanent, sustained upheaval in the way teenaged American players approach their "careers" in the game are probably a ways away, and by the time they happen the domestic game will likely be very different than it is today.

    I expect there will be a few notable data points here and there, but probably not a real "trend" -- at least for a few years. Put another way, your arguments might help explain why a player SHOULD go overseas -- but I'm not sure they're enough to change behaviors across the board.
     
  6. Ultra Peanut

    Ultra Peanut New Member

    Jun 3, 2004
    Achewood
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe, but the converse is also true: You do see players who would rather be underpaid starters in MLS than overpaid benchwarmers in Europe. Kenny Cooper and Taylor Twellman come to mind, and yeah, there's the grim spectre of Landycakes there too.

    Let's also not forget it's never as simple as "you'll earn more if you play in Europe." Playing time, family concerns, visa issues--there's always more to it than just a paycheck.
     
  7. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA
    Are you volunteering?
     
  8. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA

    If superdave has anything to do with the authoring of it I'm leading a boytcott of it
     
  9. banbaseball

    banbaseball Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    East of the Bay
    hence why i emphasized Holland and Germany. and not say the EPL, La Liga or Serie A. HOWEVER, if we begin producing players that can begin accumulating some status and media frenzy (only i.e. Freddy Adu) then La Liga and Serie A will begin taking interest (barriers and all).
     
  10. banbaseball

    banbaseball Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    East of the Bay
    *yawn*, they should also have a sticky for uterlly useless and vastly unconstructive responses.
     
  11. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    here are my answers:

    1)they have to do a better job of producing talent stateside thats obvious. The issue is that the average soccer player goes to college and college soccer isn't equal to any level of soccer outside of the states.

    2)its tough to tell a kid to play against lesser competition for less money.

    3)MLS is in a tuogh spot the best they can do at this point is act as a feeder league which is exactly what they don't want to do, its tough.

    4) I've had enough of him he needs a new job. He hasn't played well in an international game in over a year the game has passed him by. He's part of the problem not the solution he admitted he couldn't hang the day he came back to the states with his tail tucked between his legs. I am also not impressed by his three goals in two games in the MLS since the WC fiasco. All it did was show one of two things either he played horribly or the mls is a low level minor league. the bad news is i think its both but i am done with him i'd be happy if he never had another international cap. I'd rather see a young kid run around and make mistakes then a veteran looked lost and confused.
     
  12. pething101

    pething101 Member

    Jul 31, 2001
    Smyrna, Ga
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, since the post before mine mentioned barriers of entry into European markets, for example work permits in England and salary minimums in Holland, I thought it was a constructive and useful response.

    You did not.

    That is cool. No biggie.
     
  13. USA2010?

    USA2010? Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    I don't necessary think it's about younger yanks "choosing" to play abroad. They must develop their skills and have the talent so that the overseas clubs want them. If they do develop the skills, then with MLS' current pay levels (especially for young players), I can't see them turning down any legitimate offers from overseas. If they fail, they can always return to MLS. I'm not knocking MLS as a league (although I do think MLS is a 3rd tier league), but simply from a money standpoint, they could play in MLS for lower wages.
     
  14. WJMarx

    WJMarx BigSoccer Supporter

    May 5, 2003
    Boulder, CO
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If young players are not skillful by the time they are 16 they never will be. Technical ability is developed at an early age, going to Europe as a 16/17 y/o to substantially improve skills in players lacking in them is folly. i.e. crossing ability of Beasely and Heyduk. On the other hand tactical sense and toughness can be taught at a later stage. The competition for game time in Europe is a grand teacher of toughness.


    If only that was true. In order to prevent wholesale signings of less skilled but hopeful players Holland requires large salaries for non EU recruits. Although, a great destination for young players it is not an easy signing nor any guarantee of 1st team competition or training.

    Being mired in the German 3rd or 4th division seems to be the usual destination for young Americans. It offers little and certainly does not pay the young American anything close to $200,00.00
     
  15. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    I made the list a few moths ago (and it turned into a longer thread) but it wasn't "stickied".

    Miroslav Klose was nothing but a headball specialist in the 2,002 WC.
     
  16. socks

    socks New Member

    Dec 17, 2003
    oaxaca mexico

    ooh goodie, you mentioned donovan. now I get to repeat my bitter invectives against any athlete who actually chooses to suck. I wouldn't buy tickets to a game in which donovan played just for the level of frustration and depression that it would give me. he is Darrell Strawberry and his Barbie is cocaine.
     
  17. banbaseball

    banbaseball Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    East of the Bay
    many apologies pething101, my oversensitivity and trained Bigsoccer defensiveness has reared their ugly heads once more. i stand corrected.
     
  18. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA
    Let me look for it.... if its kept current it might be a good thing to have stickied
    Do you remember which thread?
     
  19. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Something about the "foreign/European employment rules".
     
  20. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Interesting topic.

    It's particularly interesting watching Freddy at D.C. United. Granted, it would take a lot of loophole diving to get an under-18 American on a professional team anywhere other than MLS, and I'm sure we'd all rather see him playing for D.C. United than Bethesda-Chevy Chase High School, but is that the best place for him to develop at this stage? How about next year?

    But I'll have to argue that it's not so simple. For "Landon Donovan," substitute "Dario Brose." "Gus Kartes." Even "Jovan Kirovski." Maybe even "DaMarcus Beasley."

    (Besides -- in Donovan's case, we're really talking about two bad games that matter. He came up big for the qualifiers, any number of MLS playoffs, Portugal 2002, Poland 2002 -- where the refs robbed him, Mexico 2002, etc. Yes, he has yet to prove that he can perform as the central U.S. playmaker in a World Cup Group of Death, but let's not kick him out of the player pool just yet.)

    So there are pros and cons, along with this self-fulfilling prophecy -- if no one thinks MLS can develop young players, it won't.
     
  21. El-Professor

    El-Professor New Member

    Dec 13, 2004
    Gulf Plains
    And he jumped from one of the wee leagues, 7th division or something like that.
     
  22. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think players here have been getting lots of offers. Some have gotten offers in the past, but not like now. I used to be able to count on a couple of hands the Yanks Abroad. Now there probably over a hundred.

    As far as US basketball players staying home? Many do it cause they want a chance at the NBA. That may not make sense and isn't terribly likely, but they do it.
     
  23. GalacticoX4

    GalacticoX4 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    To my knowledge Kenny Cooper was released and had no offers from any other clubs so he wouldn't have been overpaid in England. He wouldn't have been paid at all.
     
  24. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    The problem with this logic is that the Dutch (in Beasley's case) have developed plenty of stars and have an excellent reputation of instilling skills into their players. If Beez flunked out of that school, it's not the Dutchmen fault.

    It's as if a young QB went to study under Mike Holmgren or Jon Gruden and never developed into a decent NFL performer. You're not going to blame Holmgren or Gruden (for someone like Sean King or even Trent Dilfer) for his failure because those guys are known as great QB tutors after having developed a slew of NFL superstars.
     
  25. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Before Mike jumps in, Kenny asked for his release from ManU and did have multiple offers from the Colaship and below in England.

    Personally, I think he made a mistake to come here on a 4-year deal unless it has a low buy-out offer. I do agree with SAF in the sense that it takes a while for a big forward to develop and Kenny's only 21.
     

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