You make the lineup

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by theodore, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Pointless game, other than to underline some serious needs on the team.... but let's play. You have been hired to replace Morrow, and you are about to play the Galaxy in the exhibition game. After a couple of tremendous weeks of preparation, to the white erase board you go, to get your best pieces on the field. No cheating.

    You cannot use unsigned players you wish were here, and you cannot use the players who we know are leaving, (Gbandi).


    I will start, and I will do it from the back up.....
    ........................................{Burse}...............
    .................................Davino......Yi.......
    ........Moore....................................................Wagner
    .......................................Serioux....................
    .................Ricchetti...................... ....Toja............
    ........................................Dax..................
    .....................................Cooper............................
    ...........................................Oduro.................................

    4-4-2

    This will put our best assets on the field at one time. And mind you, I don't like the look, but I think it is our best 11.

    How would you do it?
     
  2. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    how about...:

    --------Sala-------- (Burse if Sala off-form or injured)
    Moor---Davino---Wagner
    --Serioux--Ricchetti--
    Dax (right)---AA (left/interchangeable with Toja?)
    --------Toja--------
    ---------Oduro (sub Ricardinho)-----
    ----Cooper (sub Abe)----

    the right side is weak, I still hope we can improve it.

    3-2-3-1-1 I guess it'd be.
     
  3. Kevin8833

    Kevin8833 Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Estero, FL
    Wagner is better than Anthony Wallace you think?
     
  4. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    based on what we saw during the season, it seems like Wagner is ready to be a full-time starter, whereas A-Wall might be another year away. also, A-Wall may be working toward a defensive midfield role, not a LB role. but I think most people believe that A-Wall's ceiling is higher than Wagner's, and that ultimately he will be a very good player whom we will be lucky to have.
     
  5. Thedza

    Thedza Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    Funkytown
    --------------Burse--------------
    ---------------------------------
    Moor---------Davino--------Wagner
    ---------------------------------
    ------Richetti------Serioux------
    ---------------------------------
    --Dax------Toja--------Alvarez---
    ---------------------------------
    ---------Cooper-----Oduro--------

    3-2-3-2

    I thought Toja was pretty good in that offensive mid position last season so I think he should go back to that.
     
  6. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    theo, your lineup seems very narrow in the middle. who stops a Mullan?
     
  7. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    I was not putting a lineup out to counter even the LAG's much less Houston. I was simply trying to get our best 11 on the field. But, let's work off of your question. If I am in charge and by some miracle the players listened..... I'd have the midfield diamond slide side to side defensively. So, Mullan would be pitted against Toja. However, if in transition Toja was on the wrong side of the ball, then Serioux would cover his back and pick him up, and the right midfielder, Ricchetti plugs the hole in the middle. If all breaks down and Mullan gets by all the midfielders, we would then find out how MLS ready Wagner is, and hold our butts as Davino and company slide to their left.

    However, I think that the question with Houston, would be more... who stops a De Rossario? If I could give you a 100% effective solution, then I could be coach of an MLS Champion. (Not).

    I'm not sure that you are asking me a question, as much as having fun with me. If you were instead, just pulling my leg, then consider me gotten.
     
  8. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know a lot of people will fundamentally disagree with me on this, but it seems to me like if you go to the trouble of putting eleven names into a formation, you have to be thinking about positions and tactics... because how else could you have drawn the formation? if you just want to list your "best eleven" players, on a paper vaccuum, why put the names into a formation? it seems like it wouldn't make any sense to do so, you'd just write a list instead.

    I mean, is Yi really better than Dax in your opinion? you must be thinking about tactics, otherwise Yi wouldn't even be there, right?
     
  9. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Well, you have to arrange them on the field. Obviously we have 3 defensive mids. You've got to get them somewhere on the field where they can be effective. Conversley, we have no starting quality left outside fullback. This plays big into how many guys you put on your back line, and a choice to play the kid Wagner, slightly out of his natural position. I don't have a problem with lining up 11 guys that should start tomorrow.

    But, I think that you begin to see some issues with the current team when you go through putting down a lineup.

    For example.... I see your lineup and I think it too uses most of the same guys I put down. We both agree, believe it or not. But, one of the questions I have about player characteristics is purely a stylistic choice of mine. I like for my center mids to be about linking to relieve pressure, and to generate opportunities for the forwards. If they can score, then that is a bonus.

    So, we would definitely use Toja in a different role. Another example, it has been said that Morrow envisions Wagner as a left mid. Interesting that all of us put him as a left outside back.

    So, I validate your lineup choices, but scratch my head as to why you think that my game of actually putting the players into a formation is nonsensical. For me, this is simply fun.
     
  10. Thedza

    Thedza Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    Funkytown
    I only put him there because I would rather be spared to death by a kid that is learning the ropes than by David Wagenfur who we know is nothing more than a back up in this league.
     
  11. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think it's nonsensical at all, my point is that when I asked you about your lack of width, you said that your "formation" was designed not to play a game against an opponent, but to showcase our best eleven players as you saw them. I said it kind of has to be one of the other, either you're simply listing eleven good players or you're putting them into a formation which makes tactical sense - which is it?

    if it's the latter, don't you think the width thing is a problem, since as you pointed out the players would be unlikely to be able to implement the side-to-side thing?
     
  12. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    semantic mix up. When I hear width, I think of team in possession of the ball. When I hear balance, I think of the same concept, except on the defensive side of the ball. So, when you were asking what you would do with Mulan, I assumed you meant how to defend him. Tons of teams use the 4-4-2 tight diamond midfield that I drew out. I already explained how you would use this system defensively to deal with midfielder on the right side of the field.

    As for width, that is a different question. You get your width in these type of systems from your outside backs. Play short passes inside followed by a longer switch to an overlapping back. Probably 75% or more of the teams in SA are using this or the boxed midfield set w/ overlapping backs to get their width. This is the position that Drew played in Copa America, except that USNT used a boxed midfield.

    I guess you have a point on best 11 vs field a team in a way that allows you to be the most effective. Probably AA is better than Yi. But, given AA's player characteristics, You don't put him in roles that require a lot of two way play. I like how Thezda arranged AA. That role would fit AA's player charateristics. But, I am not crazy about Toja in the role as creative sparkplug. I love Toja, but the forwards are not going to get involved in the attack with Toja in the central mid role.

    I think that Juan Toja is more of a natural defensive mid or a true 50/50 two way player. I also think that he is quick in tight spaces, but does not have good vision of the field.
     
  13. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I DID mean how to defend Mullan. Ricchetti and Serioux aren't really wide players, and you've put Toja and Dax (both often used as wide players) specifically in the center - there's nobody on the flanks in your system to defend against opposing teams' flank players. that's what I'm talking about.

    but yes, I did mean AA instead of Dax what I asked if you thought Yi was better than Dax.

    I declare this conversation too confused to continue much further. ;)
     
  14. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    _____________________________Burse/Sala__________________________________

    _______________________________Davino____________________________________
    __________________Moor__________________________Yi_______________________
    _________________________Ricchetti________Toja____________________________
    _______Dax____________________________________________________Wagner____
    ______________Alvarez____________________________Oduro/Ricardinho_________________________________________Cooper___________________________________

    Pick in form keeper. Hope Yi can stay healthy or use Pitch or Wallace. Could move Cooper to a wing and insert Abe in the middle. Rotate Serioux in at Dmid and as defensive sub. If we get a top notch A-mid then one of the forwards is out and it goes from 3-4-3 to 3-5-2.
     
  15. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    Well, I was going to post mine, but Pegasus nailed it. Right now, that's the way I would go, ignoring form and injury, of course. Let them play like that for a while, being somewhat rigid from a positional standpoint....but then you start throwing the kinks at the opposition. Ricardinho and Wagner switch up for a while, AA and Cooper swap around, Dax and Toja exchange roles......really keep the opposition on their toes, they have no idea who will come out them from any angle. There is a TON of flexibility in this formation with this personnel. That's the beauty of the 3 back system, those guys can stay home and anchor the defense, while the front 7 are freee to control the ball and attack.
     
  16. paladius

    paladius Member

    Sep 27, 2003
    Frisco, Texas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Burse


    Rhine Davino (Moor) Wags

    Serioux Ricchetti (Saragosa)

    McCarty Toja Alvarez


    Mina/Cooper Oduro/Little Ricky
     
  17. jamezyjamez

    jamezyjamez Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I like Pegasus' lineup too. For a 3-5-2 right now, I would go:

    GK
    Moor-DD-Wallace
    AA-McCarty-Serioux-Toja-Wagner
    Rico/Oduro - KC

    Serioux is the DM, Dax is the 2-way, and Toja is the creator. I know plans are for Wallace to be a DM/2-way in the long-term (post-Richetti/Serioux), but he is probably the best option at LB that I know of. He did OK in the WC last summer.

    I think 2 DM's (Serioux and Richetti) will lead to more bunker ball with little possession like last year. I'd rather take a more offensive approach with Dax who can distribute better than either of them - plus it gets him, Wallace, and Wags some needed minutes to see what they can do for 2009.
     

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