YNT post-mortem: U.S. players born '93-'96

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Giorgi Chirgadze and Davy Armstrong were exemplars of this tradition, too.

    To their credit, all these guys are still plugging away. Pfeffer is the only one left on an MLS contract (for now), but Armstrong is in his second year with Colorado Springs, McLaughlin has been a regular with Cincinnati so far, Navas Cobo has been starting in the Colombian second division. Chirgadze fell off the map this year, but he did score seven goals for one of Georgia's larger clubs last season (Dinamo Tbilisi).
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas



     
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
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  4. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Gotta say, Mikey Lopez looked pretty darn good for NYC FC against Vancouver last night. Played both sides of the ball and looked confident and decisive on the attack. Maybe he's more than a squad player after all.

    Heck of a shift for Jordan Allen, too.
     
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  5. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Oh yeah, Jordan Morris scored his third in three games.
     
  6. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Tactical Hipster repped this.
  7. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tom Collingsworth repped this.
  8. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
  9. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    I wonder about Amaya as well. He's not getting a lot of minutes with Los Dos. Thus far, only Zardes has made a major impact with the 1st team from all the HG signings. Villarreal looked like he might be a real contributor when he was first signed, but he hasn't progressed much in the last year or so. Most of their other signings are with Los Dos, and strike me as destined to either be USL lifers or spot players with the LAG. However, I think the yield of 1st team major contributors from among HG signings is not that much different with most other teams, although a few like FC Dallas, RSL & NYRB seem slightly ahead in this regard. The test for the LAG will come in 2-3 years when their more highly regarded younger players become old enough for possible HG consideration.
     
  10. Tactical Hipster

    Dec 23, 2014
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah Lassiter has played 67 minutes this year and BJIV has played a total of 39 minutes. That is with Keane being injured so far too. Mendiola and Sorto haven't made an appearance so far either. Although, the LA Galaxy do have a lot of talent in the lineup, so it would be very very hard to displace any of the starters. However, maybe some rotational work with those players included would be helpful.
     
  11. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I think we're really overdoing this 'Homegrown' mania. The players mentioned all have very different histories not under one 'Homegrown' standard. Most didn't start with the same club since they were 8 and are now playing for that first team. We all should be glad that MLS teams are investing more in their academies but that doesn't necessarily mean its based on an international standard of excellence. Juan Agudelo was with a few club teams signed with NYRB then went to Chivas USA then NERevs then Stoke where he didn't play loaned to Utrect then came back to NERevs where he isn't alockdown starter and we're somehow bragging and celebrating we've developed a homegrown player! Should we call him a successful Homegrown or a simply a journeyman? Or none of the above.
    Harry Shipp was with Chicago Fire Premier, played for Notre Dame for 4 yrs, signed with Chicago Fire, he gets sent to Montreal and woo hoo, he's a homegrown success story. We have to get away from the marketing term of Homegrown that MLS places on these players. NYRed Bulls nor Chicago got any significant transfer fees, nor success on the field for very long. If they weren't labeled Homegrown wouldn't they be of the same standard? If a tree falls in the woods and no one's there doesn't it still make a noise. I hope our goal is to increase the standard of our players and not try to convince this is happening simply by coming up with a special word to describe them.
     
  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I think you are missing the point. Regardless of those cases the point is that HGP is the prefered mechanism. Besides, age 8 is a standard that no club maintains. Age 12 to 15 are the prime scouting years. I think bit by bit MLS clubs will get there.
     
  13. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Mechanism to do what?
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We should expect a fairly high "failure rate" for these prospects just like there are for drafted baseball players and prospects in other sports. Hell, #1 overall picks in the NBA and NFL can be busts.

    Fernando Clavijo recently gave an interview when he talked about the "failures" of the FCD homegrown initiative. Basically, he said they really worked hard with Bryan Leyva, Ruben Luna, and others. They just weren't progressing to the point where they were earning playing time. They left FC Dallas, and haven't really been picked up anywhere else. In a sense, he felt it justified their decision making with those players.

    There aren't a hell of a lot of Donny Toia stories. Players signed as raw, teenage homegrowns waived or cut (not traded for assets) and then becoming starters with other MLS teams. There are examples of that with older players that had been in the NCAAs, like say London Woodberry. You know who FCD could use? A right back. Hello? London Woodberry. One of the strangest cuts of the Clavijo/Pareja era.
     
  15. Tactical Hipster

    Dec 23, 2014
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it makes you feel any better, doesn't seem like Heaps is too interested in starting Woodberry right now. I think he is a solid RB, but he does play for a defense who isn't very good right now. Goncalves hasn't been the same since NE bought him, Farrell hasn't lived up to expectations, and Tierney is a great offensive threat, but not great on defense.
     
  16. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    To obtain players. Teams no longer focus on the draft. They are more involved in their local communities. They have an academy but they also scout and recruit local talent. They are active participants in growing development in their region. Obviously not the only participants but now integrally involved.
     
  17. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    That's true, but it's also a sometimes-soft distinction. Using the HG mechanism to sign a college senior who hasn't been in a club's academy for years is certainly different from drafting him, but it doesn't really represent a massive change in the way players are developed.

    The next evolutionary step would be a significant increase in the number of academy players signed to professional contracts during high school or sometime soon after graduation, which certainly happens but arguably not in numbers that really seem to represent a big step forward.

    I personally don't believe we necessarily need to be signing hundreds of 15-year-olds to pro contracts to take a big step forward, provided they are in high-quality training and competitive environments fully funded by the team. There are some structural barriers to that happening, in addition of course to the cost proposition.
     
  18. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Is Harry Shipp a better play because he has a label of Homegrown rather than drafted by Chicago?
    I don't think you read my post. MLS is in a game of marketing semantics rather than instituting real youth development. Its obviously better than it was but far from true development. The only players I'll ever call homegrown or rather from their academy is a player signed as a youth player prior to going to college until they're 21.
    A 24 yr old player who went to college for 4 yrs now playing for another team is not a homegrown player he is just a player.
     
  19. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    How about dozens of 16-18 yr olds?
     
  20. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    #120 deejay, May 5, 2016
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
    You are comparing an eight year old program to programs decades in the making. Development went through exactly the same phases in all other countries. Did Santos develop Pele? No. He was already a player for the tiny club Bauru. He just showed up on the recommendation of Waldemar. Did Santos develop Neymar? Yes. He was recruited at 11 years old.

    The significance of the article is that HGP is working for the clubs. I am excited that we are now irretrievably down the right road. Some clubs will half ass it but a lot of clubs will do the right thing and the program is here to stay.
     
  21. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    How many dozens?
     
  22. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Yep. I watched the LAG DA teams in '07, and have followed them on and off since then. The number of top end players has not changed that much from year to year, but the fall off in quality is much less now than at the beginning. There were players who had absolutely no business playing in a pro environment. Now it's very different. While you can see that many of the players will probably not reach a pro level, most of those players possess enough ability and have a decent mindset that they don't embarrass themselves or the team.

    The coaching, the environment, the resources, etc. are just so far ahead of where they were in '07. However, in order to take the next big step forward (where major prospects are produced consistently) the coaching/training at the very youngest ages has to improve. Otherwise, the DAs will continue to inherit decent, but flawed young players, whose ceilings are limited.
     
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  23. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I would hope that all our nation's academies would be producing 30-40 professional grade youth players yearly.
    Each team would be integrating 1 to 2 a year into their rotation. Sounds reasonable doesn't it?
     
  24. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    #124 SUDano, May 5, 2016
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
    Empire United just built a field 3 miles from my house so I'll be able to swing by more often to catch the northeast division. I recently went by and watched Philly Union's U18 team vs Empire United. It was 4-0. I can attest to your statement that Philly were running players in and out of the game toying with EU. They all had an advanced skill set from what I have seen in the past. A few were standouts but 15 others were all just very good soccer players whose movement, skills, and touch are just better. They know how to get good soccer players into their environment and teach them the right way. Sidenote, talked to Justin McMaster's father's 'friend'. Nice lady who just drove up from NYC area just to catch the game and admitted not knowing a lot about soccer. Sounds like she wants to hook him. Of course I'll drive 5 hours to watch 4 hours of soccer that I know nothing about to watch your son play and drive 5 hours back.
     
  25. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    We're going down the right path but far from the destination implied by throwing the term Homegrown around like its a giddy prize announcement. I think MLS is going to continue to excitedly call Harry Shipp a Homegrown Player! until he's 31 playing for his 4th club and starting 50% of the games. He's not a journeyman he's a Homegrown.
     

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