YNT-eligible MLS players: 2020 In-season thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Busio’s first half

    Pros: he hasn’t lost the ball, he played the corner that was scored (but at the pro level every player can hit a corner)

    Cons: unless you are specifically watching for Busio you wouldn’t know he’s on the field because he is not getting on the ball, no sense of urgency to put himself in positions to get on the ball in any areas on the field

    You can’t say it was a bad half for Busio because he really didn’t do anything wrong but you can’t say it was a good half because as a center mid he touched the ball maybe 5 times. What I’m concerned with is that he isn’t working more to force himself in the game more. If the game isn’t finding you sometimes you have to go find the game and Busio isn’t doing this currently.

    If there are European scouts watching he isn’t making a good impression. Let’s hope he lights a fire under his ass for the next half
     
  2. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    he was so invisible he might not make it to the second half
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The thing I enjoy most about this post is the clear fact that it never occurred to you that you might be wrong and DC United right in its evaluations. I'm not saying you're wrong; I just love that there's no possible alternative to you where you are.

    I'd like to see Nyeman, too, of course. But I'm not writing off the possibility that Paredes is outplaying him right now.

    Of course, what is far more likely is that it's much easier to play a young wide player than a young central player. Mistakes do much more damage in the middle of the pitch.

    I expect we will see Nyeman at some point if we have a real season, which, hopefully, we do.
     
  4. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    I personally think Paredes is playing because DC is thin at the wing with Paul Arriola out. His evaluation of Moses Nyeman isn’t wrong. Literally every scout, fan, and player I have talked to has all agreed that Moses is as good of a prospect that it gets.

    But at 5’5 115 you have to wonder if Moses is ready physically for the MLS. Sometimes you can have a special talent who makes his debut later because he has to grow physically
     
  5. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    better from busio to release shelton, but thats with the field in front of him and running at defenders.
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yep.

    DC is thin, Paredes is more physically ready and wide players do less damage.

    Moses needs to get some playing time this year, but I'm not going to be angry every game he doesn't. And I wouldn't expect a small 16 year old to start.

    Pipa Higuain wouldn't be a bad mentor. But I don't love that his coach is Ben Olsen -- he's always been a defense-first, grind it out dude.

    OTOH, he's 16.
     
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  7. Tactical Hipster

    Dec 23, 2014
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  8. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    #858 kingshark, Jul 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    Is Felipe Hernández US eligible? I checked wiki which count him as an American player. He had some good moments in this SKC vs RSL game.

    For Busio, I thought he lacks the identity that make him special. He made some basic moves and a few safe passes, but not any of them make you wow. Aaronson on the other hand, did, whose fake move and half turn are his trait.
     
  9. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    With reported interest from clubs like PSV and Juventus Busio had to deliver today and I don’t think he did.

    His first half was not good. He touched the ball maybe 5 times as a center mid. If SKC was getting pummeled and rarely seeing the ball this wouldn’t be bad but they had a fair amount of possession.

    Busio’s second half was better with two good offensive plays but he was subbed out in the 60th minute.

    We have to expect more from players who have Europe calling. Only being involved in two offensive sequences in 60 minutes is not good enough. He created a goal off of a corner but no team in Europe is going to sign you because you can play a good ball off of a corner. I don’t think this kid has the potential to make it at any of the teams who are trying to sign him and i don’t want to see him make a bad move that will kill his career
     
  10. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    youth players need to have first team minute clauses in their contracts
     
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  11. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    You really think clubs with as thorough scouting departments as those listed will all of a sudden rescind their interest on him based off one game? Gladbach is paying a minimum of $2 million for Scally and he’s never appeared in an actual MLS match.

    Busio should not think of Juve though.

    And I want the move to happen to Europe more for SKC/MLS to continue to show they’re willing to move youth players abroad.
     
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  12. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1285799987494948865 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  13. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    SKC should bite the hand off of any club willing to pay over $2M for Busio.
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Brian is right that Herrera has been good. Nice domestic fullback depth.
     
  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #865 ussoccer97531, Jul 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    Give me credit. I was right about your reaction. I didn't tag you to start an argument. I knew you'd have opposite reaction you did, so I preemptively included you in the discussion.

    I just have never understood appeals to authority on this topic. I suspect I've seen Nyeman play way more in real games than Olsen has. I simply believe I have more knowledge on this topic than Olsen. I wouldn't even need to say that if we all could agree that appeals to authority on topics like this should be avoided, and we can just all discuss the topic on the merits. This "but the coach watches training so he's right about the decisions he makes" argument has never been convincing. Sports history is riddled with bad coaching decisions, and I don't think anyone would argue that Olsen is a particularly good coach.

    I've watched them play in the same teams for years. That just does not happen. We are talking about two different level players.

    I'd rather not make this about Paredes because he's a good player that doesn't deserve criticism (he's not ready for MLS, most his age aren't), but this is the excuse I've been seeing some make for Olsen, and if Paredes is in the way, that's too bad because he's a talented player.

    Paredes cannot be an excuse against playing Nyeman.

    I don't necessarily buy this argument because he's also using Griffin Yow, who isn't very good, to put it nicely. You could just as easily use Nyeman out wide over Yow. Nyeman out of position is better than Paredes and Yow, especially Yow.

    Olsen has said age doesn't matter. I think its clear that he evaluates a player many believe is the most talented in the youth player pool to be worse than Paredes and Yow. That is alarming IMO.

    I have no faith, at all, in this. If I was to predict things, I think Nyeman is the next one to have his stock fall tremendously in the up and coming years, for reasons that are entirely beyond his control at this point.

    MLS has become the league where we see some young Americans get minutes, which is certainly a good thing, but too many of the best talents (Carleton, Alvarez, Araujo, Nyeman) rot. It's actually starting to become disproportionate. The coaches say they aren't ready to play, which are complete bullshit reasons, and then some fans say "look they are playing this other young American" or "this other young American get minutes for another team", as if we should accept players with lower potential as substitutes. I can't remember the last top 2-3 talent in their age group that got immediate minutes, like their ability indicates they should. It would probably have been Tyler Adams, and we saw what happened there. Most of the rest of the top talents have been smart to bypass MLS entirely (Pulisic, Reyna, Sargent, Weah, KDLF, Booth, etc.).

    I will support all our players, but these situations provide the most frustration. We don't have an unlimited talent pool. There are only a certain amount of players in each age group with real top level potential. Some of you might not be frustrated because you don't follow them close enough to know this before they play pro games, but it's frustrating for some of us because some of us know the limits of some of these players. If the most talented guys rot, the players at the forefront become guys with less talent that are given a bigger platform.

    We just cannot keep losing a top 2-3 talent in each age group because MLS decides so. I named four players over the span of four different age groups that either have been rotting for years, have started rotting recently, or we can safely predict will begin rotting soon. Are any of the top 2-3 talents in their age groups that went the European route rotting yet? No, because teams in the top European leagues aren't as stupid as the MLS teams. Thats not to say they will all be huge successes at their teams because we can't predict that, but they will get the chance to develop, and prove themselves. It will be based on merit. With the top talents in MLS, it has become the opposite.
     
  16. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    The issue with Busio is this isn’t an unusual game for him, he pretty consistently underwhelms. The only time I have been impressed by him was when he was playing at the Concacaf qualifiers with the u17’s against pitiful competition. Outside of that I just sit there and think “is this really it?”. I think SKC hindered his development and he should have leveraged his passport for a move abroad at 16.

    I also think $2 million for Scally is bad business. Scally is athletic but is not very good on the ball. I didn’t understand the move by Gladbach. With Scally I’m worried about him becoming a reserve league star
     
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  17. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This could have been labeled the game between two clubs with potential for their academies who just squander it.

    SKC should have taken the earlier bids for EPB & Busio when they had them. $5+ million down the drain. In SKC's case, did they just give up on utilizing their academy. It produced Ledezma, Saucedo, Soto, Lennon, Glad, Herrera, Ochoa, etc.; on the cheap. Is that not enough to be more than economically viable?
     
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  18. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    RSL didn’t give up. They had other teams take players they formerly would have and three players who normally would be their young guys on the roster bounced to Europe. Their academy has pretty good talent tbh.
     
  19. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since the rules in MLS have changed so they should keep the same strategy and take the sell on fees or integrate to get some usage before the probable eventual transfer. Maybe it's their hg territory has shrunk, but that should be offset by the other factors.

    They're not working in Ochoa in favor of McMath. At least their new coach is more resistant to integration, and that's part on the FO. They hired him probably knowing that and haven't made a directive like we've heard from Seattle for example.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    2 million for Scally was great business....................for NYCFC.
    Lost Reyna for nothing.

    I never really trust these reported bid amounts until they're made official. 3-4 million for Busio? Really? From a club like Fiorentina? I think the guy reporting that is Alfredo Pedulla. Consider me skeptical. I also don't buy the report that SKC values him closer to 10 million. Where does that come from?

    I'll say this: I'm always surprised at the doors that can be opened when a youngster has a European passport.

    The phone call should have gone like this:

    Fiorentina: We'd like to pay 4 million for Gianl.............
    SKC: Sold! Sold! And we'll throw in Tyler Freeman if we complete the deal by the end of the day.
     
  21. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    If a kid not getting many first team minutes at age 16 causes him to "rot," he probably either wasn't that good in the first place or is missing something from his game/mentality that held him back. Paredes is 16 months older than Nyeman. He is much more ready for MLS than Nyeman at this point in their respective careers.
     
  22. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Kevin is only 6 months older than Nyeman. They are both 2003’s
     
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  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    This board has gotten to the point that we're whining about an MLS coach playing the wrong teenager! I was pleasantly surprised by Paredes' performance.

    Call me at the end of the year. When it comes to 16/17 year olds, I know that their appearances are going to be situational and sporadic. LIke Ricardo Pepi last year for FCD.

    Part of the issue is simply this tournament format. If you're going to be in a tournament format, your sole interest is advancing in the tournament.
     
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  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Oh, come on, you a response. I don't mind or a I wouldn't have responded. I like going back and forth with you.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to make an appeal to authority in the sense that Ben Olsen (who I agree, not a good coach) is necessarily right and you are wrong and then there's nothing to argue.

    Simply that there's really no consideration in your point of view that there might be a reason behind him not getting time, whether it's his size, performance, a balance with winning, whatever.

    I don't always agree with coaching moves, but I try to understand why they might be true and allow for the possibility that I don't know everything. It's why I always come across with defending the establishment, because the default here is that every single decision is the end of the world and everything is very, very clear.

    If Nyeman doesn't get a decent amount of time this year, I'll be disappointed. But I simply don't see a need to react after every single game.

    And while I still believe the opinion that Ben Olsen should be playing Nyeman is valid, and I believe the opinion that Ben Olsen should be fired is valid (and I agree with both), I also think that it's hard to argue completely with the game to game decisions he's made.

    I do think there's a situation where Paredes is more ready to play right now against MLS competition and Nyeman is still the better prospects, especially when you consider that Olsen has more than player development on his priority list.

    But I agree -- Paredes is not blocking Nyeman. He's simply evidence that Olsen will play a young player.

    So let me ask you, why do think Paredes is getting decent run and Nyeman isn't? And please don't say "Olsen's an idiot" - tell me what you think Olsen would say if someone ever bothered to ask?

    Noted. I don't have a ton of confidence in DC United, either. But I also know we've five games into his 16 year old season.

    Why do you think that is? Again, no "these people are idiots!" Each of them has a reason that seems rational to them.

    Some of it is team, of course. Dallas, Philly, etc. are more committed to playing the youth. But even at a team level this is occurring.

    Atlanta is playing Bello, even through uneven work. LA is playing Dunbar and Araujo (noted, out of position) and DC is playing Paredes.

    I mean, yes, it happens, when you compare ages. Tons of 18 and under European talents do not get first team experience or even MLS-experience due to backups at their clubs or decisions.

    Jadon Sancho didn't get played by Man City, and Phil Foden got slowplayed as well. Erling Haaland got less than 400 minutes in the Eliteserien as a 17 year old and he's Erling Haaland. Trent Alexander Arnold didn't get out of the youth league until he was 19.

    Playing 16 and 17 years is actually pretty rare in Europe, with most of them playing on B or youth teams which are often well down the ladder (or in a youth league).

    I personally think you're right on Araujo's position, but I can see why they are trying to move him. And he's gotten time. Your "rot" here isn't interest in the player, it's a positional move you disagree with.

    Nyeman is 16, and I can't get worked up five games in when virtually no 16 year olds get first team minutes.

    If he hasn't played at the end of the season, I will be with you. We will see.
     
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  25. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    think its worth reiterating that i and i think a lot of others approach this forum purely from a national team perspective. if i cared about what such and such teenager could do for mls i would post in that mls academy and youth forum/thread.
     
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