YNT-eligible lower division-pro players: 2021 IN-SEASON thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Balerion, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #426 Clint Eastwood, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
    Just to be clear, all clubs worldwide "don't want to lose out on revenue." Do Bund2 clubs provide contracts to their best young talents that allow them to walk away for a minimal fee to the big clubs? Of course not. The big clubs have to come pay. [By the way, Jonathan Gomez' market value on transfermarket is less than 500k. That would be an overpay. And his value is so low because he's not performing on a big enough stage to actually increase his value.

    As far as I'm concerned, if a player wants to leave on a free at 16 (w/passport) or 18, they can follow the Pulisic, Sargent, Hoppe path. They don't have to tie themselves to a professional club at all.

    The contract lengths and lack of release clauses, etc. mean nothing if MLS is willing to sell the players when offers come in.

    Again, I'm talking about the elite youth prospects. I'm not talking about the kids on San Antonio, for instance. There's no evidence whatsoever so far that other elite youth prospects are following in the footsteps of Gomez. In fact, quite the opposite. They're signing on to MLS in bigger numbers than ever. And based on the fact that Louisville is UNHAPPY with the result of Gomez leaving for nearly nothing, one can surmise that its not a trend that they want to continue.

    And from a Western Hemisphere perspective, MLS has been virtually as good as it gets over the past two years. And every day that goes by we're hearing about more and more sales. Busio seems next. I think this should be a much bigger headline than it is. More player sales to Europe than Mexico and Argentina combined, and there's no evidence that its a "blip" on the radar.
     
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  2. KeaneO16

    KeaneO16 Member

    Manchester United
    France
    Mar 4, 2020
    That's very interesting, I'd love to read that it you can remember where you saw it
     
  3. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #428 TarHeels17, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
    For the life of me I can't find it. I remember it was specifically by either a coach or a GM in MLS, and they said that they did some study of when Champions League players typically debut, and they found it was 17. It was either a Curtin quote or a Sounders quote, I'm not sure.

    Edit: Kinda found it. It's from a 4 piece writeup that the Sounders did to pat themselves on the back a couple years ago after winning the GA Cup. I actually really enjoyed the articles and think that they're the best writeup of a club ethos about development that I've seen put into writing, but I can only find 2 of them right now.

    Part 3, which is here: https://www.soundersfc.com/news/how...-one-best-youth-systems-united-states-program, says this:
    Unfortunately, the link to Part II doesn't work, and I can't find it anywhere on the internet either, but that's where the more thought-out version of what I said lies.
     
  4. KeaneO16

    KeaneO16 Member

    Manchester United
    France
    Mar 4, 2020
  5. KeaneO16

    KeaneO16 Member

    Manchester United
    France
    Mar 4, 2020
    The quote from the article is
    "Two years ago, the Academy staff examined a study conducted by City Football Group showing that over 80 percent of players who competed in the knockout rounds of the UEFA Champions League made their professional debuts at 17. This informed the club’s decision to integrate more Academy players into S2, as it accelerates the timeline for talented prospects making their First Team debuts."

    Unclear what "professional debut" means in this context. This stat doesn't feel right to me, so I did a quick bit of research and looked up the professional debuts of the Man U starting 11 from their most recent match. Shaw and Greenwood debuted in the PL at 17. Lindelof debuted at 15 in Sweden, the other 8 debuted at 18 or later. (possible Cavani debuted just before 18 in Uruguay, can't find an exact date). So that's less than 30% for that random sample, but obviously if you count reserve teams or professional contracts, I'm sure that increases the numbers considerably. Small sample, but I would be surprised if something wasn't lost in translation there and the study didn't have a broad definition of professional debut.
     
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  6. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for finding that, but if you're looking at teams in the knockout stages of the Champions League, I'm not sure why you're looking at Man United ;)
     
  7. KeaneO16

    KeaneO16 Member

    Manchester United
    France
    Mar 4, 2020
    I knew someone was gonna say that, and it hurts, it really does.
     
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  8. KeaneO16

    KeaneO16 Member

    Manchester United
    France
    Mar 4, 2020
    Since I'm bored here and browsing transfermarkt, I checked out this hypothesis as best I could too. In the last 2 years there has basically been no instances of "big clubs coming to pay" for anything that could be described as young talent in the 2. Bundesliga. Closest I see is one sale of a 20 year old to Bayern 2 for a whopping 165k. Other than that all the sales are the usual sales from newly relegated sides, a few decent sales of 25-30 year olds, and then lots and lots of free transfers.

    This is exactly why training compensation exists. No good prospect is going to sign a long contract with a lower division team, or any contract at all. they'll be poached long before that. The real scandal with the Jonathan Gomez thing is that the USSF is not supporting USL teams getting TC (unless something has changed recently). TC isn't huge money, but can end up being a big chunk of money to a lower division club.
     
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  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Can you guys please take this stuff to PM’s? It’s gone on many pages of this thread and many days.
     
  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    He’s had a very good season.

     
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  11. KeaneO16

    KeaneO16 Member

    Manchester United
    France
    Mar 4, 2020
    Perhaps it's not a bad idea to split off these discussions from the player threads. A situation arises with some player in one of the threads, and then the thread spends 2 pages discussing the benefits, drawbacks, practicalities, philosophy and ramifications thereof. Should there be a separate "US Youth Development Issues General Philosophical and Practical Discussion" thread? Or would it never be used because all discussion stems from talking about individual players, so it'll always happen on whatever thread is applicable to that player and annoy people?
     
  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This thread has been used in the past for when those discussions break out for the academy thread.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/ussf-development-academy-3-0.2104874/#post-37942597

    This current discussion may be a little more related to the pro game, so it's possible a new thread for that could be created.
     
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
  14. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good interview with the JOGO

     
  15. NoHammiesAltidore

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't really get that. They're four of the worst teams in the USL Championship this year.
    Loudon United is THE worst team. I don't think playing the youngsters against the independent USL teams, the quality of which keepers increasing............is the way to go. Getting hammered on a weekly basis isn't productive. Just my opinion.
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm pretty shocked Real Monarchs aren't one of them.
     
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  18. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it’s less surprising now that they’ve pivoted to a younger squad and aren’t as competitive.

    also, the ongoing process of selling the team may be an impetus to trim costs here and there
     
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  19. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I'm glad the Galaxy are staying (even if it is a weak team this year). They use it more as a U-22 team than a U-17 team so they need the better competition.

    I think we're going to see two things in the USL. Players are getting younger (although I think this will reverse after a while) and so there will be more USYNT eligible players in the league (and in this thread) but I also think there will be few realistic USYNT candidates in the league.

    The path for a journeyman player (or course with exceptions) should be learning in the USL at 17, being solid in the USL at 18 and being on an MLS bench at 19. U-20 National Team players should be better than that. I would expect that most of them will be starting at the MLS level in the future. Cameron Dunbar is coming off the bench for the Galaxy this season at 18. He's a solid player, but I don't see him having a national team future.
     
  20. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This says that the 2 clubs last USL year will be next season for all that are staying in USL next season.

     
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  21. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  22. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    I don't watch too much of the Revolution II team, but Damian Rivera is a beast from what I've seen. Probably the leader in the USL 1 MVP race as an 02. I wonder if he'll see time with the senior team before the year is out? The Revolution are in the Shield race so maybe not, but you have to think he's earned it.
     
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  23. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Can you explain how you’ve formulated this opinion? He has 3 goals, 0 assists.
     
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  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Listed at 5’10. He’s right in that same height range where he may not be a real CB, but exploring the options of keeping him centrally (#6, #8, wide CB in a back three) keeps his ceiling higher because his natural attacking skills aren’t great. Similar predicament to Araujo.

     
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  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Fort Worth is the biggest city in Texas without at least a USL team.
    There are those looking to change that. Not a lot of FCD's academy talent comes out of Fort Worth, but some does. Jonathan Top, etc.
     
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