My photos are now online: http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2005e/0713_clt_cdc_ycj.php Scott Bales should be up early next week
No team photos and closeups of the Eagles? I feel very slighted. They deserve as much recognition as Chivas. I have to hope that's what Scott's shots will show, otherwise, this is blatantly an MLS show of pictures, and not a true representation of the game. And I'm not just saying this for this game. If any other game has pictures that get posted and it's mostly all MLS, I'll say the same thing to them. The USL teams deserve to be recognized.
Jeez, ya put up photos for free and people still complain. Why? Are you a part of the Eagles organization? Why? This isn't a charity. Charlotte Eagles photos don't sell. At all. If you bought an Eagles photo, you'd be the first one that I know of. Pretty much the same thing, I'm guessing. Who said any of our sets were ever "true representations." We're there for a reason. To get shots for our usage and to get shots that we can sell so that we can afford to cover more games. We have no use for Eagles shots, but we do have plenty of use for Chivas shots - especially with them being an expansion team - we have precious little stock. No, they don't. Not in so far as the market allows. Have you priced camera gear, or even gasoline, lately?
My mistake - I thought they were posted for people to enjoy them, not for you to sell them. Guess that's what makes us different. And yes, I have priced camera gear and gasoline lately.
Well I like looking at your phographs Andy so keep up the good work and we have all got to make a living, so you'll have no complaints from me only appreciation.
My point is that if you're shooting a game (like I do for another site), you should try to get shots that are representative of the game. I would think that's what the fans want to see? We just have different philosophies in what we do and how we do it.
You're still wrong. I did post them for people to enjoy. I shoot the shots that I can sell through other outlets. www.ibiblio.org/footy is not how I sell photos. It is an outlet to share photos that I - and others - shoot with the fans. For free. If that's not enough. Then so be it.
Why? You've not answered that question. So the 100 or so people that view a U.S. Open Cup set get warm fuzzies because I took some photos of Charlotte Eagles' players? But the "fans" don't pay the bills. Sports Illustrated, Southern Soccer Scene, soccernet.com, etc... pay the bills. In the case of this game, CD Chivas USA paid the bills. The Charlotte Eagles have a very nice and competent team photographer who takes tons of Charlotte Eagles photos. www.charlotteeagles.com is chock full of them. There's no "philosophy" involved. All things being equal, I would should "generic game coverage". But things aren't equal. I carry a bag to games with well north of $15k in electronics and optics. And it's all mechanical - meaning it all eventually breaks. At a certain point, the bottom line becomes the driving force. If we at YCJ wasted the time making sure we got every player from every team. We'd end up running out of money and end up taking no shots of anyone. It's not a "philosophy" - It's business.
I'm sorry, but are we talking about the YCJ Footy Photo Service, or the YCJ Footy Photo Service ®? Look, Andy makes a very good point: the bottom line is the driving force, because if the money isn't there, then he doesn't travel to games, and he doesn't have the thousands of dollars of photo equipment to get such nice shots. I can respect his position in this respect, even if his defense of it comes across as just a bit arrogant and unsympathetic. That being said, it would be nice just to see a greater balance of shots, as I know Andy probably has a fair number of shots featuring Charlotte Eagle players that he didn't use, even if they weren't posted... unless he dumped them after clearing out his memory cards. It doesn't take much time or effort to get a couple of shots of the visiting team, believe me. The Magpie
Hey Andy, is it just you and Scott Bales who form the YCJ partnership, or are there other people involved? (I do enjoy your work, by the way. Thanks for offering free viewing of the images online.)
Yeah, sorry about the terseness and arrogance. I'm sooo very busy (as a look at our collections index will show) my diplomatic side goes out the window. Sorry. But one thing we've done to help out is we basically don't do seperate web and stock sets. The majority of the shots online are thumbnails of the stock images. When we have time, we'll go back and add some non-stock shots to the end - which I done with my set. The fact is, Scott and I were working with Chivas to get them shots. But even if we weren't, our focus - for our needs - would have been primarily on Chivas USA. YCJ, LLC is Scott Bales, Wade Jackson, and Andy Mead. YCJ Footy Photo Service (which is not registered, nor trademarked) hosts photo collections from Fred Kfoury and others on occasion. Mike Lastort has returned to primarily being a fan.
Sorry Andy but this is a consistent pattern of yours and I know I am not the only one to notice it. I don't know whether you are just always busy or what but you put up a lot of angry, hostile stuff towards people who dare to even ask a question. Yes people appreciate that you put up the photos but since you are putting them up into a public domain shouldn't you be prepared for a little critcism, suggestions and praise? Kind of the nature of things. I just am trying to figure out why you are so hostile all the time....
I'm not. Maybe I appear that way on the boards. C'est la vie. People who think I'm hostile will find what they're looking for. People who think I'm humorous will find that as well. When the folks I know in person start telling me I'm angry and hostile, then I'll really start to worry. But my writing style has always been very terse, and it's something I work on. Obviously, more work needs to be done. As far as taking criticism. I take plenty of criticism. And I have been known to change my mind or "see the light" based on criticism offered up. I do tend to act the most negatively towards unfounded criticism especially when it is offered up then the offerer refuses to understand or even listen to my position or reasoning. I love shooting games as they happen. I also would prefer to not have to watermark images the way I do. There are very good reasons why I, and other YCJ photogs, do things they way we do. Some are quite obvious, but many are much less so. Things like watermarking (from the Timbers board thread) are necessary to protect both our images and the business of other professional photogs and has absolutely nothing to do with (as I read on soccercityusa) ego. I'll glady explain the realities of the business side of shooting the Freddy Adus and Mia Hamms of U.S. soccer and what happens when images are stolen from our website and used for calendars and trading cards, but I'm not sure that you really care or even want to know. We really began watermarking after the 2003 ChampionsWorld Series. Our shots of some of Europes big stars were stolen en masse and used commercially. This hurts us and it keeps the infringers from paying to use the shots of us or those of other photographers. We tried the name at the bottom thing, but that was easily cropped off. The watermark across the bottom third is a last ditch resort to protect ourselves. Fans with a legitimate fan website need for images have rarely been turned down by us. Maybe I'd be a little less hostile if I didn't stumble across a message board where my name was being dragged through the mud. Not criticism, but derision. All because I put photos, and help other photographers put their photos, on the web for fans to view for free. Criticism is fine. Bring it on, my photography has improved greatly over the last three years, much of it due to the critiques I've read about the shots that I've posted. As to this thread, Lisa and I may disagree on things, but I shot yesterday's Gold Cup Final second half pretty much next to her without incident. I like to think we get along fine. I don't think either one of us meant or took anything from the exchange personally.