Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2020/2021

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    why is club position suddenly gospel? if thats the case adams will be our rwb.

    and the obvious next question is how could mckennie or musah possibly back up adams (who by that logic isnt the 6), when they on the outside of a 3 man midfield and traditional rm respectively?

    see, this is what i mean. you cant have completely different standards for different players. you cant have incoherent rules for who can go where, what we change formation for etc.

    you think the best "backup", or alternative, when adams isnt available is musah or mckennie? thats valid. the two of them as a double pivot? ever better.

    but thats a matter of adjustments, not depth.

    ill be happy to give you an argument for yueill after saying this: nothing ive said has necessarily been my opinion or preference- its based on evidence of what berhalter has done. things that have actually happened.

    when he has had (as close as weve been able to get over the last two years) everyone available we a) play adams at the 6 or b) yueill as a dlp.

    thats not a prediction and its not something i write on a slip of paper before wishing for with all my heart while placing it gently in my hope chest at night.

    that is proven. anything other than yueill as the "backup" to adams IS conjecture.

    but you want an argument FOR that? sure ill humor you. say we need a full a team roster (not split between gc and nl). lets assume (youve got to meet me halfway in wasting my time) a straightforward 3 gks, 4 outside back and at least 4 cbs*. 2 fwds and at least 4 wings/outside mids.

    that leaves 6 cm spots- but where i need some leeway here is i think we will carry 1 "extra" wing/outside mid (in reyna/aaronson, who can also play as one of the dual 8s)- or possibly an extra cb if berhalter goes all in on 3/5 atb.

    so, all that matters here is 5 cm spots. we play with dual 8s, presumptive starters mckennie and musah, ahead of a 6 (adams). thats our primary, first choice 11.

    do we agree on that? can we accept that as anywhere from reasonable to likely?

    i believe- and think (again, supported by berhalters actions time and time again) lletget is the primary backup at the 8. de la torre made that interesting, but im still giving the edge to lletget at this point. lets call that a mixture of my preference and what berhalters PROVEN preference.

    gotta take a break here and ask you not to retcon in a time-jump here. i am talking vaguely current-our first set of qualifiers.

    that leaves 1 spot, which for the umpteenth time ill say is yueill. and the reasoning is very simple if youre not just looking for an argument...

    who else could it be? bradley, trapp, johnny, acosta, otasowie, durkin, cappis? am i missing anyone who has played as either a 6 or dmid? yueill has played better, and is better, than any of those alternatives. not in theory, not two years from now but in tangible play. evidence we have seen happen.

    so unless youre arguing for one of those guys who else is there? im asking.

    because the only argument against what im saying (the reasoning- this is not about being the president of the jackson yueill fan club)- the argument against that is some alternative reality where its yueill vs guys in completely different positions and roles. no dlp vs dmid, but yueill or an extra striker, or cb, or winger. thats the 6th (dedicated) cm spot i believe we wont use.

    do you think it (the cms on the roster) will be 4 8s and adams as the only player berhalter has ever used at the base of a 3 man midfield? that its either adams or a look weve seen between zero (a 4-2-3-1) and one (5-2-2-1) time? if not, ill ask again- who else possibly fills that 5th cm spots on the roster. i mean, christ, at this point i dont care if you call yueill the 4th keeper.

    you guys keep asking and keep asking for an answer to a question that is completely made up and changes from post to post. the player on that blank line for "reserve" closest to tyler adams' name is yueill.

    thats my argument. hes shown to be the best possible option at this time as the deepest lying central midfielder who isnt tyler adams. thats how rosters work- you have your starter, then you have whos next.

    im done taking questions. think absolutely whatever you want to think.
     
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  2. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a really amazing post. Great description all around. Bravo.

    I appreciate that you are pragmatic about tactical issues with the MNT. The reality is, as you have so very clearly described, that Berhalter has certain tactical preferences (as do all coaches) and those aren't likely to change much from month to month.

    I will only say that the best arguments I've heard for an Adams replacement amount to changing the formation significantly, but you nailed it in terms of why Yueill is the replacement for Adams. We can like it or not, but it's real.

    I do think our player pool currently would be more adaptive if Berhalter allowed for a pulley system, but he really seems gung-ho about keeping the numbers up field, and I don't know enough about tactics to disagree. (Come bash me now, you predictable f*ckers)

    In the end, again, thanks for the great post.
     
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  3. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    I’m a little surprised all the Morales fanboys are not out listing him as a possible replacement. Did he get worse because him team dropped down a division? Is he hurt? Out of the game?
     
  4. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #979 Eleven Bravo, Apr 7, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
    In the current formation, I agree. There’s no one else. Johnny and Otasowie are not ready. And other options are worse.

    We also have the current problem of not have an alternative left back - if Dest plays on the right and I’m not so sure Cannon, Yedlin, or Reynolds should be locks to start.

    Part of this reason suggest again why we should consider the 3313 formation:

    Style: hybrid inverted wingbacks / defensive mids
    —LF————FW—————RF—-
    ——————CAM———————-
    —LCM———CM————RCM——
    ——LCB——-CB——-RCB————

    A team:
    GK Steffen
    RCB Long
    CB Brooks
    LCB Richards
    RCM Adams - could cover for CM
    LCM Dest - could cover for RCM/RWB
    CM McKennie
    CAM Musah
    RF Reyna - could cover for CAM/LF
    FW Sargent
    LF Pulisic - could cover for CAM/RF

    *technically, I could play Adams at LCM and Dest at RCM too. Personally, I wouldn’t lead with that though.

    B team:
    GK Turner
    RCB Miazga
    CB Zimmerman
    LCB McKenzie
    RWB/RCM Cannon
    LWB/LCM A. Robinson
    CM De la Torre - could cover for CAM
    CAM Lletget
    RF Weah - could cover for LF
    FW Dike
    LF Aaronson - could cover for RF or CAM

    Note: it seems for lack of alternatives, but I prefer it anyway that the bench options shifts the formation back to a traditional wingback formation rather than inverted fullback system.


    Possible replacements:
    *Yuiell for De la Torre

    *Yedlin/Reynolds for Cannon

    *Green/Ledezma for Lletget

    *CCV/EPB/M.Robinson for Zimmerman/McKenzie (or we could boost elsewhere. We really don’t need 6 center backs even in a 3 CB formation - Siebatcheu? Arriola? Hoppe? Gioacchini? Konrad? Morris? Acosta? Or someone else. Honestly it probably needs to be a CM or FW - depending on need).

    From a XI perspective, that gets our best guys on the field and minimizes weaknesses on the bench. From a tactical perspective, I believe that A team would get it done. But it would revert back to Berhalter’s experiment to play Adams in that weird RB/DM role - which I hated. The only thing on that is that I could see Dest playing the opposite of that on the left and the team just crams the middle and plays with a solid block defense with 6 guys holding the fort down. If I didn’t trust my attackers, we could get easily pinned back, but we have enough speed and pace, I dare teams to send their fullbacks forward. We’ll murder them on the counter. Whereas when we’re playing in CONCACAF, aside from Mexico, I just see our players overwhelming the rest with talent - especially attacking from deep. And if needed, I’ll just throw Dike in the box against those teams and let him bruise their backline up.
     
  5. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    im fundamentally anti-3 cb with our pool of cbs, but a lot of interesting thoughts.

    im curious- why do you have musah as cam and mckennie as cm? more specifically, do you see musah as a better attacker, or mckennie as a better defensive/all around option?
     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Gold Cup would be the tournament for him.

    Weah, Reyna, Pulisic, and Aaronson would be the NL players.
     
  7. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    Bump.

    I have him after Johnny (unfairly maligned after playing out of possession with terrible players) and ahead of Yueill (just too limited) and Perea (actually kind of terrible).

    Musah is much better anywhere in the MF but I’d rather keep him in the shuttler role if we’re playing 4-3-3. McKennie makes terrific recovery runs and is good on set pieces, but he’s a sneaky-bad 1v1 defender.
     
  8. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would interchange - almost like a fluid diamond - that’s why that CM isn’t a CDM.

    But from the start, I believe McKennie prefers to come up from deep in his attack. Honestly, I might sub off Musah and start Reyna or Aaronson in that spot and start Weah at RF.
     
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  9. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I just looked him up to see how he is doing and found out that he just transferred--yesterday--to NYCFC for $100k. So, you'll get to see plenty of him if you want to watch that stupid club in that stupid stadium. Assuming, of course, that he starts.
     
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  10. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Oh no. Well now he really dropped off a cliff for those Euro-files, that treat club & league as the sole way to rank a player’s worth.
    So in one year, he’s fallen from BL1 to MLS. I wonder how far down their ranking system that takes him.
     
  11. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They're going to be at Red Bull Arena a lot this year.

    Until they build a stadium they should be forced to play there.
     
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  12. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  13. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well at least he's got good defensive numbers (compared to other forwards in 1.BL) because all the rest of his numbers aren't good.
     
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  14. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be great... if he was a center back.
     
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
     
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  16. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While we can discuss individual spots a bit overall a great post. Here's what I like the best about it. Take a look at the B Team roster. Guys that's a pretty decent side right there!!
     
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  17. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The B team (and depth as a whole) is something that must be considered when constructing a best XI. Sure, when it’s WC knockout round, you don’t play around, but the rest of the time, it’s one situation away from the whole thing collapsing. That’s what scares me about the 433 formation with Dest on the right and Robinson the left - even if that could be a best XI. There’s no depth to it. If something happens to Robinson, we’re toast. And do we really want to rest the success of our entire team on Antonee Robinson? I say that as a huge Antonee Robinson fan too. In short, we must stress: maximize strengths, minimize weaknesses. We can want to play whatever brand of soccer we want to - but results happen by knowing your player pool and getting the most out of what you have... not what you think you should have.
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Many times these conversations are limited by who Gregg has played. But we have seen that Berhalter is not that great at talent identification outside of the most obvious players.

    While I agree with McKennie and Musah and maybe a few other in Europe, it is strange that Yueill and Acosta play in a league with other Americans that are eligible for the team. James Sands has been better then them, because they don't actually do the job and Sands does for his club. For some reason, there is not a large number of 6's in MLS that are American; but there are some that have not been tried.

    On the younger side is someone like Aidan Morris. We see if Columbus play him or waste him. It is too bad he is with the Crew and not one of the good development teams.
     
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  19. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Funny, I would think you would be Morales's biggest fan now...

    Morales transfered to MLS from the 2.Bund not the Bundesliga. Very few players move from the Bundesliga to MLS; I can't actually think of any. Maybe Lothar Matthaus? But that was a retirement money grab and a real embarrassment for MLS.

    But, like Yueill and Acosta, Morales is an 8; which is why nobody brought him up.
     
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  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Again you limited yourself to players that have played for Berhalter. The pool is much bigger obviously.

    Perea started over Yueill for the U23s. So, if we are going by recent USMNT form, Perea is ahead of Yueill already.

    Yueill has been bad in the press. The press is one the most important tactical underpinnings of the The System now. Can LDLT press? I don't know. But he can pass as well, if not better than Yueill, and gets stuck in.

    But again, there are others. Sands is a better 6 in MLS than Yueill. Aidan Morris is on the come up. Servania is inconsistent but taking steps to get better while Yueill is happy to play as a man-marking 8 for a crazy coach. Amaya seems to be highly valued by the two clubs best at valuing 20 something MLS talent.

    In the end, nobody should be playing if they can't play. I would think it would be 1000X more preferable to have McKennie backup Adams and have Lletget or Aaronson come in than to play an ineffective #6 like Yueill or a give away machine like Acosta.
     
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  21. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Yeah, it was again, a lot of words, but effectively came down once again to "this is what Berhalter has done/will do...argue about it all you want, but that's what it is".

    Sure, I wouldn't really argue that. I think if we had a match today and Adams was injured, Yeuill would be on the field. But I'm not on this message board to explain what the manager will do. I'm on here to discuss what I think, and what I would do. Does it matter? No. But I wouldn't need a message board to say "Berhalter is gonna do this, deal widdit".

    A 4-2-3-1 is not really a substantial change from a 4-3-3, especially with Musah/McKennie/Lletget sitting slightly deeper, it pretty much is a 4-3-3. So again, it's the idea of getting another piece I favor over simply saying "Yeuill is the backup daggumit!"
     
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  22. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    In his Yanks Abroad on March 30, I posted that this might be a good move for him from a NT perspective. Gregg is effectively ignoring guys in 2nd tier leagues, and is selecting MLS guys that aren't dominating in MLS. If Morales earns a starting spot with NY and plays well, why wouldn't he be an option? Granted, he hasn't done that yet, but it's certainly a possibility.

    So goofy posters pretending league matters more than anything, could've just looked at the YA board and seen that nope, nobody hates him, and he might even get back into the NT picture with this move, assuming he displays some good form.

    Another fail.
     
  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    All true.

    I'm just not that sure that Yueill is ahead of Perea. That doesn't seem to based on any recent data. But maybe we think what Kreis was doing was heresy and not reflective, ok.

    Until it comes down to an actual game Berhalter 100% tries to win (I think we have had two of those and the Gold Cup final was not one strangely), where Adams can't play, we won't know.

    To stay Thread on topic, Luca Del La Torre was very impressive in the two recent games and has been playing well in one of the non-Top 5 leagues Berhalter seems to rate.
     
  24. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Gregg has called up players out of the C'ship, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, and the Netherlands. He seems to rate 2nd tier leagues.
     
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  25. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I don't judge players negatively based on youth tournaments. People were down on Dest after the U-20WC, ffs. If someone shines, great. But, there can be many causes for someone not looking good in a youth tourney.
     
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