Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2020/2021

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With a tie on the last match day, the GD would have put us in 3rd. You have to run it up when you can.
     
  2. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Thanks for the correction, I'm a big fan of Siebatcheu, still am, feel that was a feeling out performance, getting used to brand new teammates etc, but yeah, Dike's ahead of him for now for me, he's earned it with excellent play, but it is important to note that Siebatcheu has had a great year as well, all be it primarily as a sub (not bad to have double digit goals despite playing mostly as a sub).

    I still have concerns with Dike technical skill set, but I think his assets are strong enough for me to argue that we have at least two usable forwards in the pool now, 3 if you include Siebatcheu as I do.
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised. I think our forward pool still has a lot of vetting to do. No one has brought a consistent excellence, and in particular, no one has brought consistent excellence in finishing.

    I think I'm less certain on most guys than most, and I think my pool is still a bit broader, but what I really like about Dike's emergence in the championship and Siebatcheu's play is the added dimension.

    Sargent gives us build up play. Zardes, Hoppe, and Soto all give us different levels of the "run behind the defense" type of striker.

    (As an aside, is there a name for this? I see poacher used for it, but I don't think of these guys as poachers -- I reserve that for someone who generally has this skill and a great sense for the ball. I'm not sure any of these guys have the latter. )

    But having a target forward allows for a pretty significant added tool to our arsenal, and I'm all about diversity of offensive options. My biggest issue with more direct play is that we have that in transitional spades -- this team doesn't lack for vertical speed -- but pinging up aerial balls to Pulisic and Reyna against a reasonably set defense is a recipe for never having the ball. Sargent is improving but mediocre. Get me a real target forward and do it selectively and it can be very effective as an additional weapon.
     
  4. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    All excellent points. I'm not as down on Sargent as you and others. I happen to think nearly everything is attributable to Werder Bremen. He was an excellent finisher circa '17-'18, and has actually become even more technically skilled and well rounded as a player since, but the one area of his game that's lacking is the cutting edge in the attacking third, the desire to be a lethal kind of shark in there like Dike is, or Siebatcheu, whenever either of them have chances around the box, before you can even think about saying "shoot it!!!" like you you'd scream at Sargent, the ball has already been fired in, by foot or the head. With Sargent, it really feels like the well roundedness of the game has come at the expense of the cutting edge in the final third, that he's spent a lot of the last three years thinking, instead of playing, and as a result is a better all around player, but a worse forward.

    I think the cutting edge is there, we've seen moments this year the past few months, and before Werder Bremen it was a constant piece of his repertoire, I think surrounded by better players, where he doesn't have so many responsibilities beyond just trying to score, you'll see the forward come out. That's the reason I want him out of there and Hoppe out of Schalke. Both players have become better all around players, but long exposure to moribund attacks tends to have deleterious effects on finishing and confidence and that kind of shark like tendency you want (I've seen it with Jozy, with Wood, and now with Sargent and fear it could happen to Hoppe (thank God Hoppe is gonna be relegated so they have to sell him, just hopefully it isn't to another moribund team). We'll see.

    I'd also note, if you just look a Siebatcheu clips, he fits both the poacher and the run onto the ball (don't know the name for that) tag lines too. With Reims and Rennes in particular, but in general he always seems to score two types of goals:
    1. Run onto beautiful through balls and/or final balls

    2. Garbage man poacher goals, and some of these are high comedy and amazing, as he has a wonderful knack for scoring in a myriad of ways whenever a ball is loose in the box, in the air near the goal etc.

    We didn't see any of that in the friendlies, but he definitely has those skills, they litter the vast bulk of the goals vids of him you can track down, both of those styles of goals.

    Lastly, agreed on having a kind of swiss army knife collection of forwards, that's an excellent thing to have, and it seems like the pool is beginning to look a bit like that.
     
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  5. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Magikfute and Winoman repped this.
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm not down on Sargent. I think he's a very good player that actually fits a lot of what the team is trying to do.

    I think he's the #1; I just don't think he's cemented it yet, and the reason is exactly as you point out, it's really getting into position to finish.

    A lot of it is Werder, of course.

    But youth level goals in terms of getting onto the ball in dangerous places and finishing is one of the more erratic predictors of success. Youth level GK and defenses are not well organized and finding the holes is pretty easy. A lot of big time scorers at that level fall off.

    And there's a chance Werder has eroded his skills if he had them.

    I think he needs to get every chance to show those skills. And frankly, no one else has really shown much better.

    But until he adds a scoring edge to his appreciable build up and pressing skills, I don't think he can "own" the job like say, Pulisic or McKennie owns their jobs. No one is unchallengeable, but to challenge one of those guys, you need a track record.

    Right now, Sargent is the #1 but could be pretty quickly unseated if someone makes a jump.

    I don't disagree with anything else you say about Sargent -- I think and hope it is all still there.

    I just don't **know** that it is.


    Agree his track record is there, but he seemed a bit slow in the NI match.
     
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  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It's not uncommon for a player's game to change once he enters the pro ranks. With better service, Sargent may or not become a good scorer as a striker at a good professional level.

    With Bremen, his best work at striker has come when he drops into midfield to do the 'dirty work'. Pressures, tackles, recoveries, and interceptions. For striker, he is elite in those things. For the US, those qualities would be highly useful in a striker if the team were to face powerful opponents. Aside from Mexico at Azteca, the US won't see such opposition in WCQing.

    Zardes certainly is not a 'run behind the defense' type of striker. He lacks that kind of pace. In MLS Cup, he did great work dropping into midfield to assist in the midfield play. 7/17 on headers. 3 key passes, 5 clearance. WS of 7.8, good for 3rd. His average position was significantly behind that of the a-mid, Zelarayin. GZ was also brilliant in dropping into midfield to set Pulisic's goal against Chile. In a similar role, he scored two against Canada in Nations League. He's not world beater. No one is claiming he should start.
     
  8. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  9. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    ARob vs Jamaica comes to mind.
     
  10. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Pulisic @ Canada... should we keep going?
    All players have a bad games
     
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  11. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Sargent is the opposite of a poacher. It is his weakness. He arrives late to vital spots. All other aspects (including winning balls in the air) are above average to very good. Zardes is definitely a poacher. I’d like to see Hoppe playing with a more dangerous team to see if he is as well.
     
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  12. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    we are absolutely going to need this on the road in qualifying at least 3-4 times and Berhalter will abandon all thoughts of aesthetics over pragmatism instantly in those scenarios.

    I can’t believe how easily our fan base has forgotten what qualifying is actually like, now I see how cults work.
     
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  13. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Im not actually sure about Sargent, his lethal finishing was what got him unheard of youth promotions in our system and the contract with Breman in the first place.

    But I can’t argue with what Bremen has done blunting his edge.
     
  14. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    This is based on what? We got our azzes kicked by Mex, kept playing slow build up, and Jay's Brother called it a "great result."
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Because there's not a lot of reason to play pragmatic in a friendly you intended to be experimental.

    I don't know the extent of Berhalter's pragmatism, but his gameplan was much more direct just a couple of months earlier, in the Gold Cup final, when it was competitive. And he overhauled the defense and went much more pragmatic when we lost to Canada in a competitive match.

    He also had a pretty decently long history of adjustments in MLS playoffs, etc.

    Hell, we played quite a bit of direct play versus Northern Ireland. A bunch of you don't seem to notice that the team and the way we played has evolved quite a bit since summer of 2019.
     
  16. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    Jul 4, 2019
    Worse than Acosta? Cmon man.
     
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  17. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is that really jogging? looks like a modified pope-mobile made by peleton...:eek:
     
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  18. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    Jul 4, 2019
    Too bad Zardes has the skill of a high school player.
     
  19. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    Jul 4, 2019
    I tore my ACL. He's a long way away. You're barely putting any pressure on the legs but it's good to see progress.
     
  20. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Go watch those games back to back without a filter/bias and then come back and try to post this again. CP was a complete black hole.
     
  21. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    So true. He’s gotten better but he misses way more than his share of easy finishes. If only we had a player that could finish like Sargent and had the reading and physicality to get to spaces like Zardes.
     
  22. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    I’m talking about reading open, dangerous spaces that the player with the ball can squeeze in there. It’s about space and timing. He always seems a half a second behind those plays.
     
  23. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you mean to tell me that having a bad game or an injury is NOT a character flaw?
     
  24. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    John Anthony Brooks against Costa Rica is a recent one that is often cited.
     
  25. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pulisic has definitely been in a funk this year. Some signs point to him coming back to life but we should all hope that this year was a major learning lesson for him. One poster *sorry, I forgot who* suggested leaving him home for the Nations League AND the Gold Cup... part of me thinks he needs that rest. But at the same time, too much rest is a bad thing too. I would still call him up for the Nations League - for consistency and team chemistry, but I would pre-plan to not play him 90 minutes for every game.
     

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