Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2019/20 Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    I didn't say we couldn't compare Acosta and Pomykal; I said it's crazy to on skillset because they aren't very close in terms of things like first touch, ability to control the ball, tactical sense, passing, dribbling skills, etc.

    You just illustrate what I find fundamentally frustrating about most of the assessments on this board. This is your evaluation technique:

    1. Where does he play?
    2. Maybe incorporate goals and assists

    If you actually watched these players, you'd see there's a pretty significant difference in their play and production.

    But you don't, clearly.

    You define how good a player is by his club.
    You define production as goals and assists, even for players who aren't in attacking positions.

    Great. You can get a job as ESPNFC or on Twitter. But you're not really bringing anything to the table in terms of the discussion, are you?

    Productivity and even statistics are much more than goals and assists.

    When Tyler Adams was dominating at NYRB with only 0 goals and 3 assists (in over 2500 minutes), I'm sure you were one of those who said he was just mediocre in a mediocre league. Then he walked into RB Leipzig and was instantaneously better!

    Pomykal isn't Adams. As big a fan as I am, I'm not sure where he tops out on level. But holy cow, evaluating a player is a lot more than "CLUB+GOALS."

    And Pomykal was owning the midfield, much the way Adams was. And while goal productivity was an improvement area, he was much more aggressive and dangerous in limited minutes this year. Including this goal:

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020...mykal-goal-vs-philadelphia-enhanced-highlight

    Finally, I didn't say he was a great #10. I said he was the type of #10 that I'd like for this team and I think he's better than Holmes. Having someone that can play in the offense and be goal dangerous but still be a strong defender would be a huge asset for our defense.

    I like two way players. I think the US needs to have them because when we play teams above our talent level, we can't afford to have someone not willing or able to play defense, especially in central midfield.
     
    Calling BS and majspike repped this.
  2. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Ya know, 20 vs 25 for a tournament 2 years away isn't so clear cut in favor of the younger player even if all is equal. The 25 year old will be 27, which is prime age for most players. The 25 year old is likely reaching his peak in 2 years and you're likely to get his best performances. The 20 year old will only be 22 and still no where near his peak. The advantage may actually be to the 25 year old unless the 20 year old is clearly better. If you're worried about 6 years from now, I'd say way too much happens at club level to project your borderline players that far out.
     
  3. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I agree that my post about how average Championship/Bundesliga 2 players don't tend to get serious minutes with the USMNT was cherry picked to exclude average Championship/Bundesliga 2 players who didn't get serious minutes with the USMNT.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    This is true, but the average player improves much more between 20 and 22 than they do between 25 and 27. So if the players are of similar ability now, who is more likely to be better in 2 years?

    Of course, we don't need to make any decisions now for Qatar, so it's all kind of moot.
     
    tomásbernal, nobody and DHC1 repped this.
  5. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I look at stats and I temper the stats with what I see with my eyes.

    You see a player that I do not see. I see a player who fits in broadly with solid midfielders of MLS, including where Acosta was 4-5 years ago. Meanwhile, you crow about "first touch", "ball control", and "tactics" without providing any evidence. If he exhibited such traits in abundance, you'd think he'd be more productive and I'd expect to be able to see it.

    Take Aaronson for example. He never really stood out to me as a player, and he certainly doesn't stand out stats-wise. I watched his dominant performance against LAFC, and came away much more impressed by him as a player.

    But with Pomykal, his memorable games (for me) are in the U20s making hustle plays and running hard all game long. So my opinion of him remains fairly tempered. You can cry about it more, and how nobody smart like you can see the next Pele, but you're waxing poetic about Pomykal like @Excellency does about Delgado. If you have a specific illustrative game in which he dominates the midfield, I'd love to see it.

    By the way, I didn't predict stardom for Adams, but I did predict McKennie succeeding in the Bundesliga based on his Schalke U19 performances and how quickly he got the ball out of his feet to the right player. I can't be bothered to look at your past takes, but considering how pro-MLS you are, and how rarely MLS starlets take the next steps in development, I'm willing to bet you're not batting 1000 on your predictions either, Nostradamus.
     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Would deal with this if not your insipid passive-agro.
     
  7. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Won't you please reconsider - if not for us, then for posterity's sake?
     
  8. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aww, don't make me get out the dictionary!
     
  9. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    k, bruh.
     
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Nah. He passed his stupidity quotient in one post.
     
  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
     
    Winoman repped this.
  12. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yikes. Respond or don't respond, just don't respond by crying and namecalling, especially when you're claiming the moral high ground.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  13. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Your post started the mess. I'm not claiming anything other the insipid nature of your post. Take care.
     
  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    EPB's opta numbers and his +/- have been strong. He should have solid options for next year.
     
  15. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How many more years on EPB's Man City contract exactly? He signed in 2017 for 4.5 years, so presumably, 1.5 years left?
     
  16. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn’t be shocked if he renewed. $$$. Then loan for a year and sale.
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #1917 gogorath, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
    I'm not going to hunt down a bunch of easily found videos for you. Here's one, though:



    It doesn't highlight much of his defensive contributions, but it does clearly highlight three different things in large quantities that I wouldn't ascribe to Kellyn Acosta's skillset:
    1. A high level of accuracy and vision on extremely long passes out of the midfield. There's a TON of them here, and Pomykal only played 1900 minutes last year. But he would repeatedly drop a long pass on a dime, often coming off a turnover he forced.
    2. Good vision on through balls that would break 1-2 lines in the borderline between middle and attacking third. Acosta isn't as much of a passer -- I can remember some nice passes but not nearly at this rate..
    3. Dribbling and one on one skills. You see this mostly on the highlights from the wings. Pomykal got played further and further back all year, which is why there's more long balls than attacking moments, but Kellyn Acosta cannot do what Pomykal does in these highlights in terms of creating opportunities off the dribble. Not even close.
    Pomykal and Acosta do have similar levels of work rate (or did), athleticism, ability to get stuck in. But Pomykal was a really strong attacking player in the youth ranks and he hasn't lost that skill. @ussoccer97531 has previously lamented playing him away from the attacking group for a reason. Pomykal and Acosta may be similar defensively, but I've never seen that offensive side from Acosta.

    Kellyn Acosta does have a heckuva free kick shot, though. I've never seen that from Pomykal.
     
  18. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Pomykal is a weird one, because I can't tell how much his size and athleticism will hurt him as far as playing at a top Euro club. His skill and vision are very good, but are they good enough to play 10 at Inter Milan or somesuch?
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Probably not? But CM in a top five league? I suspect so.
     
  20. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I think if he stays healthy he will be a better player than Wes or Adams (both of whom also should learn to stay healthy). I also think that he will be sold to a better team than Schalke or RB and for $10M+. Unless Covid ruins the whole market of course.
     
  21. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Acosta and Pomykal are just not remotely similar in skillsets. The types of comparisons being attempted are ridiculous.

    A main concern with any small or scrawny cm is durability. I love me some Jacori Hayes, Paxton Pomykal, and Tyler Adams, but the little guys can get quickly worn down.

    In terms of longevity at cm,
     
  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    A famous baseball scout coined the phrase, "if you show it you own it". Development is not linear. Many times, a kid will display something then stop for awhile. But later, he tends to come back and show that.

    Pomykal was not as good last Fall as he was last Spring. It seems he was hurt, but he is also young. In his few minutes this year, he seemed more like Spring Pomykal. When I'm thinking about him, I'm thinking of his ceiling based on what he has shown, not necessarily his play last October.

    Now, Acosta is another interesting comp. FCD player, started breaking into the USMNT. In early 2017 (or was it 2016?), there was a time where Acosta was awesome. Making line breaking passes from a deep midfield position, arriving in the box to score bangers. But he has never got back to that. He wanted a move, got stifled, was probably disgruntled, got toasted by Adams in a June 2018 game, got traded, showed up to Cupcake full of cupcakes. He is a cautionary tale.

    Acosta had a chance to wipe out Chicharito on the Mexican tying goal at the Azteca. He didn't, ran by him like he knew he should but didn't want to. He lacked maybe the competitive edge to do what it takes at all costs. I think Pomykal would have wiped out Chicharito, Holmes definitely would. McKennie would, Adams would. Acosta didn't and he kind of went downhill from that play. Great free kick taker, the few times Bruce and Mike let him.

    Pomykal is signed long term in MLS and Acosta is never leaving, so not sure why we are discussing them here. ;-)
     
    largegarlic repped this.
  23. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I like Pomykol from what I've seen, but I do wonder where he fits for Berhalter. He attacks with the ball at his feet an awful lot, which looks like the profile for a winger in Berhalter's system and then if Pulisic stays on a wing, there's only one spot for him to fight for and Reyna may just fill that. He may be a solid second choice at several spots, but he's got a couple guys ahead of him right now that are very good and also young. It's not going to be easy for him to get into this lineup. Midfield could be his best chance, but he's not a 6 the way Berhlater sees it and if he doesn't play Adams or McKennie there, he'd have to beat one of them out for a spot. I guess I see his getting on the field much for this team more difficult due to fit than talent.
     
  24. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Get rid of the regista! Then we have three "dynamic" players who can

    - cover ground
    - press in a 4-3-3
    - [be] aggressive
    - win balls
    - arrive in the penalty box

    as Berhalter stated is what he wants
     
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  25. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    In the 2017 Azteca match, on the Mexico counter that led to the goal, it was reasonable for Acosta not to foul Cheech, as the US had numbers back.
     

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