All of them. If you're France or Argentina or Spain..............you just have a much larger pool. Prospects are prospects. Prospect being latin for "hasn't done squat yet." I look at Canadian posters on this forum and their attitude is like the USMNT fanbase circa 2012. You don't feel like squelching their enthusiasm for their young prospects, but you also feel like you should help them to avoid this pain.
Though I feel like this is typical of most U17 teams in that only a handful of guys end up really progressing from any team.
I don't know that it is all that worth diving in, but I do think there's differences here in each of these relative to the hype. Zelalem was one of the early guys on the "skill over all" that sort of peaked with the Kleiban drama. Same with that guy in Spain some dude on here went nuts over. People ignored the very clear red flags for the Arsenal name and ball control because there was already this doctrine about skill and not picking the big guy. I never bought into Zelalem after seeing him; a central midfielder with no size or speed can get buy on skill, but he wasn't picking apart defenses ... he was just smooth on the ball. Zelalem was like Yunus Musah if Yunus was small, weak and slow. People like to put Zelalem's busting on injuries, but I just don't think he was ever that much of a prospect. Or perhaps, to put it another way, he needed to change his ability to create danger to a vast degree, and honestly, that's not an easy thing to improve. I think Carleton, frankly, is completely different. He was a monster prospect who was probably a bit overrated because he was like Gutierrez in that he wasn't very fast, but likely was going to end up as a playmaking winger without much defense. But he still absolutely could have been a USMNT player -- and I think he was a better prospect than Guti. Dude had what Zelalem didn't -- he attacked the defense and found holes. His issue was up top -- I don't know if it was always true or happened due to hype, but he clearly stopped working. I know I always start a fight with this, but when multiple veterans on your MLS team and your coach all call you out for your shit ... it's you. This is before he decided it was a good thing to overthrow the government because we had a black president or something. I think these are two different misses. Zelalem lacked both the physical but it was also an overemphasis on a specific form of skill to the lack of others (or perhaps you'd call it soccer IQ - the ability to turn skills into winning). Carleton, in the end, was a knucklehead. The formula is physical tools + skills + soccer IQ + mentality. To get to the level we're talking, you need a decent chunk of all four. Pulisic has all four. Cavan looks like he has all four. Reyna is looking more and more like he only has three. Musah has two, it seems, though he has those in spades. It's why Albert will probably hinge on the mentality component. He's got plus skills and his soccer IQ looks pretty damn good. His physical tools look in the passable range for high level play instead of an asset at the top levels of the game (with the caveat that he's 16 and perhaps maturity changes that as well). I think if the work ethic and mentality are there, he's going to be very good even if the ceiling might be capped. But if the work ethic isn't there ... he's still going to be better than Konrad de la Fuente, but we will wonder what happened.
Musah getting a new manager: Ivan Jurić is out at Atalanta, with a 3-0 home loss to Sassuolo being the final straw for the Croatian 😳🇮🇹 pic.twitter.com/WjLQz4jq58— CBS Sports Golazo ⚽️ (@CBSSportsGolazo) November 10, 2025
I know he hasn't quite lived up to the hype at this tournament (yet) but I think he has shown the work ethic because I've seen him multiple times track back on defense and also make some good tackles doing it. I think beating people on the dribble is the hardest individual thing to do and maybe making that harder is going up against teams with differing styles you're not used too. Could also be he's not seeing such athletic defenders in Germany in the U19's ? he's playing against. I think he'll adjust and could even show that as the games go on. Perhaps even against the Czech Republic (my brain went to Check which is obviously wrong and couldn't figure out the right spelling without internet help - yikes I'm getting old) which should have players he's more used to. I'm also seeing it as Czechia a lot now so don't know the why's and how's of which is correct.
Yeah, I'm not making any judgement on Albert's work ethic either way. I'm just saying I think even a prospect of his level really hinges on that -- I mean, basically all do. Even someone as talented as Musah, we are seeing him plateau in terms of impact for reasons that are fundamentally mental, I think. And we are seeing Reyna teeter on the end of what should have been an amazing career. So many of these kids think "getting to Europe" is the goal or they look around their training field and see they are better than everyone else ... without realizing that with a worldwide player base, their competition isn't in view. There's so much improvement from the U17 that needs to happen -- if they think they've arrived, they are done.
Part of why our 1999 U-17 team was so special. 5 players who went on to play for the US in the WC (all of whom earned 46+ senior caps, 2 legends with 100+), most of the rest of the team had solid careers in MLS.
Agree on Zelalem. You still overrate Carleton. Awfully overrate. Don't compare him to Gutierres, who isn't very fast. Carleton was slow, the slowest on the field, probably including keepers. And small, he had no MLS ceiling even if he had good attitude which he never had. Disagree on Albert. He should be compared to Dempsey. Very high IQ, excellent skills, much faster, less physical, better attitude. I think his ceiling is higher. I also think his ceiling is higher than Gio's ever been. He will become a starter for BVB either in a year or at most in the spring of 2027.
One thing about a guy like Zelalem and some of these other guys is the sport itself also shifted right in that time frame in terms it being the more athletically dominant, high-press, transition-heavy modern game. Guys needed to have more physical ability than they had previously. So maybe a Zelalem or one of the other players mentioned would have been something in a different era of the sport, but this one meant lack of physical ability was always a limiting factor.
Also...........he destroyed his knee with the US U20s at the World Cup. He never looked the same to me after that. Sometimes the answer is simple. Sometimes its injury. Its like a minor league pitching prospect that blows out his elbow and never "makes it." You never know what the player could have done if that injury hadn't happened. Gedion Zelalem is still playing. He debuted for Arsenal in 2014 and is still playing professionally. Somehow still only 28. Actually, is about to play the USL Championship semifinal with New Mexico. We don't know how his career would have been different if not for that injury. It could have been the same path out of the 'big time" or maybe not.
U17 is so flaky. Brazil's 2009 team got bounced in the group stages having Allison, Coutinho, Neymar and Casemiro. While our 2015 team also got bounced with Pulisic, Wright, Trusty, Adams and Zendejas.
Definitely something to keep in mind if we get bounced early. It is about finding those types of players rather than winning at this level and never doing anything at the full team level. A big dose of early big and fast goes a long way at this age. Once other teams catch up and add lots more skill and IQ it changes things. I do think those African teams have so many players in Europe now they are gaining the skill and IQ. I'm just not sure if any country there will ever have enough none team to win the whole thing.
On Zelalem, probably, that was the last stretch of an era where badge FC, and word of mouth hype could completely turn my head, after about 6 straight years of disastrous results I let go of it. I still think he could have worked, but with athleticism, and physicality, pace and defending growing more important by orders of magnitude in '15-'25, compared to '00-10, it was probably the wrong era. Maybe his lack of physical gifts, and that final incisive pass would have killed him no matter what, but I think he might have been survivable in the 90's and 00's, but it was too luxury by the 2010's. Carleton had all of what you say, but I do think you undersell his issues with athleticism, size and pace. He was also lacking all the things Zelalem lacked, maybe to a lesser degree, but he was also a limited athlete to some extent, he made up for it by being such a creative attacker, that it might have been just good enough to play if he hadn't been a colossal moron, but he was. I think Albert's alright, at least to me, simply because of the markers at various ages, the fact that he went to a tough no nonsense Germany, and there's no negative scuttlebutt on his personality other than some sort of fight with Cavan in September or August, I tend to think the only concern at this point is injury, and maybe defending (and I say that as I just don't know how hard he works on that side, seems relatively fine, but I haven't watched, whereas Cavan, he's just working everywhere and it jumps off the screen).
When it comes to Zelalem, I tend to trust somebody like Arsene Wenger's opinion. That physical maturing didn't happen. Arsenal's Arsene Wenger confident Gedion Zelalem "will have a great career" | MLSSoccer.com "He might be a bit longer to mature because he is a little bit behind on the body structure," Wenger said of the wiry Zelalem. "But I’m sure he will be a great player who matures maybe a bit slowly physically. But overall, I’m convinced that he’ll have a great career. This kind of thing happens all the time with evaluations of these young players in Europe. "If this young player matures in manner X, then we can have the great outcome Y." It often doesn't happen, though. We have a list of a whole bunch of players who just didn't develop into world class athletes. Sometimes we forget that part. These guys are incredible athletes at the highest levels. What was that stat about Michael Bradley at the 2014 World Cup? He ran 38 kilometers in our group games. Basically sprinting back and forth for 38 kilometers like some sort of deranged beep test.
If you go back and watch some of his highlights reels from like 2016-17 or whatever, it's just telling how many are basically some nice footwork to control a pass and get away from close in pressing and then a short 20-ft pass to someone. It's a good pass, and often forward, but it's never really devastating to the opposition. At a senior level, it's a fine skill that creates little but doesn't hurt you, but when you are smaller and not a good defender, and that's your level of danger creation at youth level ... it's prettier than it is good. Carleton was 5'7" or close to it by 18 and not physically small. Yes, that's definitely in the "we might have to play him at winger" size that creates some tweeners like Gutierrez as well, but he wasn't abnormally tiny. And yes, his speed at winger would be an issue in terms of one on one creation, but the guy was very comparable to Brian, IMO, or Djordje Mihailovic. Too small to really defend centrally at the MLS level for a good team, but can create goals via his passing so you put him on the wing. DM has USMNT games and Brian very well could/will -- and Carleton definitely would have in the earlier era with less talent. He was never the prospect people made him out to be for sure -- not a Pulisic-class in any way -- but the fact that he couldn't stay in MLS or even really make a dent at USLC is not athleticism, it's up top. Corey Baird keeps getting starts in MLS merely because he makes great off ball runs over and over and over again; a Carleton that was coachable and worked would be on a roster today and might even be putting up 10+ assists a season. My commentary on mentality with Albert was not intended to sound like I think he has any mental issues. I don't. My commentary was more that there isn't a prospect we have where mentality isn't going to play a major role. Albert is a very good prospect and on the basis of Physical+Skills+Soccer IQ looks to be one of our better prospects in a while. That said, I'd put him below Reyna and maybe on the level of Pepi* or a half step higher. [*I know this is going to cause some disagreement with folks. I think his numbers add up better than Pepi if I take those three categories, but speed is so vital to a winger like him that I really am in wait and see with him as he physically matures. I also think Pepi was and is a very good prospect -- he's just a striker and strikers don't peak at 21. Wingers sometimes do.] And my point is this: Albert's Physical+Skills+Soccer IQ and where he is today doesn't actually compete for a role with a healthy US squad today or soon. He's not a better player than say, Zendejas today, or Luna in that role. He's not better than Weah as a real winger. He can show some stuff, for sure, but he needs improvement. And while the general path is to improvement, if he's going to be a star, he needs to improve a lot. He can't follow the average glidepath. We've seen someone in Musah who doesn't seem to improve and Musah's physical aspects are top notch. Yes, he's getting paid at the top level, but we're at the point where most people aren't that upset that guys like Cristian Roldan and Aidan Morris are playing over him? Who had this in their crystal ball? Who had Reyna as a borderline player on this team? Reyna was absolutely a better prospect than Albert. More skilled, bigger, decently fast, incredible soccer IQ in terms of vision ... and yes, I do think injuries have played a role, but holy shit, how did we get here with this class of 2002 where Malik Tillman is the only one who may make the roster? Albert shouldn't even be playing for a USMNT spot. He should be playing for a Dortmund winger spot. That means he's going up against someone like Karim Adeyemi, and Adeyemi will always have speed and quickness on him. So he's going to have to work his ass off. Musah has plateau'd and regressed in ways; Reyna has regressed and Scally, while never the level of prospect, has not really added anything to his game in a couple of years. I don't know why, but sometimes it's injuries and sometimes it's just hard but sometimes it's that you think you've made it. Maybe he already has the mentality. Great. Maybe he doesn't. I'm not weighing in. I'm just saying that he has enough of the other stuff that if he does, he'll be very good, and enough of a weakness that if he doesn't, we'll wonder what if.
... and 9 months later he destroyed his knee 30 minutes into the 2017 U20 WC playing for the US. He was out ~18 months IIRC. We don't know how Zelalem's career would have progressed if he did not have that devastating injury and a few after. The same can be said for players like Gatt, Gyau, and Boyd. The margins are small enough between players at the top level that losing a 1/2 a step is the difference between elite and tier 3/4.
So not only are you disagreeing with Wenger's assessment of Zelalem, a player who Germany and the US had a battle over signing him but you are now comparing Carelton to Corey Baird, a high work rate player who had been clocked at making the fastest average runs in MLS, faster than burners like Shelton! Really? https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/fastest-player-mls-or-just-who-makes-fastest-runs
Yes, I am disagreeing with coach's public assessment of a youth player for the purposes of the press. You disagree with Poch's assessments all the time. A battle, huh? LOL. My point was clearly not that Carleton was similar to Corey Baird, but rather that a player of Carleton's ability clearly could have found minutes in MLS. They are very different players, but I am not shocked your reading comprehension is intentionally poor to try and build straw men to rail at. As for Zelalem ... I've now seen him twice in USLC and once in person. Injury or no, he doesn't translate skill into advantage for his team. It's not an athletic league or a fast league. He's not particularly impactful for them though he looks just as smooth. And that's my thing -- I get the injury, but I think he needed to make massive strides on his passing vision to actually be effective. And I doubt he was going to do enough to actually live with his defense at CDM given his size and ability. New Mexico United, btw, is reclaiming many of our old prospects: Mukwalle Akale, Zico Bailey, Chris Gloster, McKinzie Gaines, Jalen Lindsay and Zelalem! Akale is actually pretty good but clearly not the superstar that one poster promised us. Gloster is still the same player he was years ago -- decently athletic, laser cross that he's not sure where it is going. Gaines' numbers are really good in small time; I'm not sure I saw him play though when I watch him.
I assume you understand that the broken down Zelalem that you see in USL is not the 16yo prospect that Wegner and the rest of the world was raving about, the prospect that had German YNT caps? Since you don't seem to know: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_...sa-how-good-german-american-gedion-zelalem-be I don't disagree with any Poch player assessment and certainly 100% endorse his Malik assessment. GB on the other hand was border line incompetent as far as judging player talents.
How many 16 year olds that managers rave about fulfill their potential. 1 in 3? 1 in 4? Zelalem isn't unique.
I think you’re stuck in the 1980s. Knee injuries are rarely that bad anymore. He lost the time, sure, but players eventually fully recover, nowadays. And that half step, even if it existed for him, ain’t the difference between elite and tier 3/4. Maybe the difference between tier 3 and tier 4. He just didn’t have it, just like hundreds of other promising youngsters at the academies of clubs like Arsenal, every year.
Even the best coaches misjudge youth players all the time. You think Wenger never missed in his assessment of a youth player?