Yanks abroad 2023-2024 thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Jun 3, 2023.

  1. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #5401 IndividualEleven, Feb 22, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2024
    With the Union and Salzburg, Aaronson excelled in similar roles playing in behind two forwards and in front of 3 center mids. Those aren't the roles he has been playing in the EPL and the B1, however. In those leagues, he hasn't shown the game to excel in the more advanced attacking positions. And he has lacked the physicality to excel deeper in midfield.

    His physical limitations had long been noted.

    Gio has simply had injury issues, a number of which had been picked up during National Team duty. There's really been nothing 'delusional' about expectations for this player. He had been a regular at Dortmund for a reason. He needs to continue to stay fit then find a place to get regular minutes. That is all.
     
  2. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    About Brenden, how he compares with all Japanese players who are in EPL? They are similar build.
     
  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Tomiyasu: 6'2" 185 lbs
    Endo: 5'10 170 lbs
    Mitoma: 5'10" 163 lbs
    Aaronson: 5'10" 150 lbs

    Credit to Brenden for adding some muscle. He used to be even more lightweight. Still has a way to go.

    Physique isn't everything, obviously. But to have good chance of surviving in the Top-4, a player had better be skinny strong or insanely quick to make up for a frail foundation. Aaronson is neither.
     
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  4. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Shorter guys have a leverage and balance advantage. They can get up underneath a taller player’s center of gravity. Maybe Brendan should study wrestling or judo
     
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  5. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Beasley as a young player was incredibly quick. And over the course of his career, he packed on a decent amount of muscle. Hopefully, Brenden can do the same.
     
  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That wouldn't be a bad idea for any player. They could also spend a summer moving hay bales around.
     
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  7. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Smaller players (including the Japanese players) make contact and separate. They make contact again if necessary. But they continually bounce away and reinitiate. Aaronson waits for the contact and tries to hold on through it. Just a losing strategy for someone of his stature.
     
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  8. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    That's part of it. He doesn't have elite quickness. He doesn't do the jitterbug thang a lot of slighter players do.
     
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  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    What Aaronson has is an elite motor.
    That's what the metrics say anyway. Data from just a couple of years ago.
    Brenden Aaronson: why Leeds pushed hard for signing and what USMNT midfielder will bring - The Athletic

    Skillcorner’s analysis shows that in a typical 90-minute game, Aaronson will cover an average of 10.7km, ranking him in the top five midfielders in Austria’s Bundesliga to have played 10 or more games this season. That is in line with some of the best 90-minute distances registered by players in the Premier League — potential Elland Road colleague Adam Forshaw, for instance, was hitting 10.9km after his return from injury — and the numbers impressed Leeds, who consistently rack up more kilometres than any other team in England’s top division.

    Aaronson is a committed and active presser and 27.2 pressures per 90 minutes, as calculated by Statsbomb via FBref, is on a par with the very best of Europe’s attacking midfielders — in the top two per cent across the big five European leagues.

    All of that is why Bielsa wanted him. To play that style.
    But if he's not in that kind of setup...............what is he?
    Running and pressing only gets a player so far.
     
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  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually he might for very short distances. He presses so well because of how quickly he gets to opponents.
     
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  11. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    im not arguing hes bring grossly underrated, but hes a more productive player than this gives him credit for. hes got 26 g/27 a in club play, 8 g/8 a in less than 2000 minutes with the nats. that far outpaces luca, johnny and musah on both counts.

    what makes comparisons difficult is where/how hes used. he was a notable low-usage wide attacker in mls who grew into much more of an on-the-ball presence after moving to salsburg, used centrally much more often (despite his slight build) and his moves to the prem and the bund were both predicated on that. hes used "wide" much more with the us, which i think is pretty obviously reflected in his (counting numbers) production- while still being able to play centrally at times (notably as a true 8 in the nl final).

    outside mid in a 4231 (or even central in a very fluid system) would be the ideal fit for him, but people cant seem to resist demanding counting numbers from those positions so even in best case scenarios i do think he is going to be underrated to some degree. and obviously hes not been in consistently top of his own spectrum over the last year or so- but ability and application are both pretty useless on their own.

    what i will argue is hes an incredibly valuable player to have in a team, and speaking of a nt above all else fan hes an incredibly valuable player for us. i think gregg has done well keeping faith in him for the most part, but refusing/"not trusting" him to play centrally in the world cup (with a limited mckennie and unused de la torre...over acosta) was very poor management, imo.

    i am as hopeful as anyone that luca and johnnys recent play is genuine growth rather than a strong stretch. i think tillman is far more of a question mark at this point, but hes a better fit for a reyna/more attacking central role. i welcome the argument of who misses out between mckennie, reyna, adams, musah, luca, malik and johnny- but aaronson is still a lock in the team for me (along with puli and weah). its a zero-thought needed no-brainer for me to carry brenden over sargent or tillman (as utility players).

    ive clearly drifted beyond even best 11 thread (to theoretical best 23) territory here, but my point is i believe his club play is always going to be fairly out of proportion to his nt value. i believe the parameters/limitations you cite are far too narrow to accurately measure his value at either.
     
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  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #5412 Clint Eastwood, Feb 22, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2024
    Pulisic and AC Milan just survived against Rennes in the Europa League.
    On to the next round.............

    USMNT star Christian Pulisic and AC Milan survive thrilling Europa League clash vs Rennes! Benjamin Bourigeaud's hat-trick not enough as Ligue 1 side fall short in comeback attempt | Goal.com US

    Not a good day for LIgue 1. Although it never seems to be a good day for Ligue 1. Rennes knocked out by AC Milan. Lens knocked out by Freiburg. Toulouse knocked out by Benfica. Marseille in a battle against Shakhtar Donestsk. 3-3 on aggregate right now.
     
  13. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately Johnny and betis dumped out away to Zagreb
     
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  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
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  15. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    When I thought when he played for Salzburg that Aaronson contributed a lot of creative play, or at least line breaking passing. Then when he moved to Leeds and started playing Red Bull ball, everything became about his motor. I'm skeptical.
     
  16. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Certainly Aaronson related, Leeds play Leicester tomorrow for some top of the table jostling. While leeds would have a way to go to pass leicester, they are scorching hot right now. Aaronson could come back and be top flight again, and we would have to all listen to Leeds fans drag his Americanness again.

    I was initially thinking maybe Adams should have stuck it out because of his long term, I guess Bournemouth wasnt the nervous move I thought it was.

    Leeds will need to stay scorching hot, because teams around them are very......very good too. Southampton (not surprising), Ipswich (very surprising), West brom getting pretty toasty too
     
  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    +Norwich City. They're a different team with Sargent.
     
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  18. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah, I absolutely will stand on the hill saying the top 6-7 teams are better/were better than Burnley, Sheffield United, and Luton (and Luton are looking like they want to make a fight of things too).
     
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  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The boy is cookin

     
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  20. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    On Aaronson:

    With Philly he split time between shuttler in a diamond and AM (Monteiro was the starter there and more of a natural connector than a 10). He was a low touch player, averaging 42.6 touches and 22.8 passes per 90. With RBS he did not exactly become a high volume player, but, by playing on the super dominant team of that league, he did get more touches. He went up to 47.75 touches and 28.83 passes in his first season (both around 20th percentile). In his second he went up to 53.77 touches and 32.52 passes. At RBS he was used at LAM in a narrow front 3 and at AM behind two FWs. At Leeds he was mostly AM or WM in a 4231 and his touches went back down to 43.3. With Union he’s LCM in a 532 and at 41.6 touches per 90*.

    I think he has mismanaged his career from a footballing perspective. Money wise it’s gone great. When Brenden was there I was surprised by how open Austrian BL teams were against RBS in even or close game states. They also got to spend a lot of time playing with a lead. The team wasn’t doing energy drink soccer most of the time but they did get to play in space, in transition, and on the break. For me a player like Aaronson, and his brother, has to learn to think the game in the final third at a very high level to get the most out of their game.

    His experience so far has taught him to be decisive and quick but if that kind of action doesn’t solve the problem he’s not bringing much else. He can beat his marker with timing and quickness/agility over a short distance but he’s not going to be able to create or maintain separation and, as discussed, he’s not riding many challenges. Those are both differences between DMB and JOB and Brendo. DMB had world class quickness and pace over distance. JOB had good quickness and speed hut he had much better core body strength than Brendo. Filling out and learning how to manage contact will help but he’d still be a limited player. He has to marry his quick actions, his agility with insight. He needs to add the ability to pick a pass and, even better, run a “half-court” offense. Otherwise his value is limited and situational.

    *per 90 stats for players who are mostly subs are skewed, and even more so now, because extra time is not counted towards a player’s minutes played.
     
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  21. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #5421 IndividualEleven, Feb 23, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2024
    Long term paths for Aaronson to stay in the Top-4

    1. Become a consistent scorer and assistor to play in the attack. He seems good at getting into good positions.
    2. Become bigger and stronger to allow him to play in central midfield. This is very achievable but will take years for a player with such a spindly frame.
    3. Find the perfect system like he had with the Union and Salzburg. This will be hard to do as few teams play with an a-mid behind two forwards. Maybe Real Madrid. :)
     
  22. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BA could also produce his elite creation like he did the first few months w/ Leeds, only do it throughout the season, while seeing his teammates actually finish from his service. If you're top 10 in chances created in the best league, you have a starting role. The pressing would be a bonus.

    Then if he had poise to finish, he'd unequivocally be a good player for any top 4 league. He had regressed instead of progressed. Hopefully we're watching the comeback to at least around the useful player he was before.

    If he then added to his game, by adding weight and/or playing to contact, he'd be outstanding. He shies away from contact and goes down too easily. Stop, and make them run thru you to legitimately draw fouls.

    For the USMNT he's still a class over form guy until proven otherwise. He out-played LDLT (for example) badly last UNL finals. And LDLT was in arguably better club form then too. So I think we should expect BA to maintain his role over LDLT and a wing like Paredes, regardless what they or he does between then and the UNL final four camp next month.
     
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  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I wonder how Brenden likes Berlin to live in.

    otoh, looks like Leeds has very good chance of promotion and this time the 49'ers are managing the situation.
    Leeds v Leicester is on ESPN+ just now but almost all over.....
     
  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Brenden sat behind Okafor and Adeyemi at RBS. Okafor is heir apparent to Giroud at AC Milan. Adeyemi is at Dortmund playing important minutes when healthy. Brenden went to Leeds, is on loan to Union Berlin this season and in 3 months he will be back at Leeds playing for Farkas who coached Sargent in the Prem with Norwich.

    Brenden should see if he can secure a loan to Bournemouth if Iraola is still there, as expected. They are both giant killers.

    Iraolas background here:
    Andoni Iraola: master of organised chaos offers Bournemouth new identity | Bournemouth | The Guardian
    "Astonishingly, his arrival alongside those of Unai Emery and Julen Lopetegui to join Mikel Arteta means Spain’s smallest province – at 1,980 square km, Gipuzkoa is dwarfed by Dorset – provides four Premier League managers. Iraola and Arteta played alongside Xabi Alonso, another top-flight manager, at the same youth club, Antiguoko. As a player, Iraola stood out for his reading of the game; an atypical right-back at whose feet moves began, never one to make a noise and more passer than runner, he was an ever-present over 12 seasons and under seven coaches in Bilbao.

    How things went at Bournemouth:
    Pressing, unlocking Solanke and a 45-yard goal: How Andoni Iraola turned it around at Bournemouth - The Athletic
     
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I'd prefer golf and tennis - how to combine upper body and lower body.

    I'm fine with Brenden's physicality. I'm not fine with his passing.
     

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