XI of the decade - 2010s

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Milan05, May 4, 2019.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Why is the XI different from what you did on the first page?

    Allison in the first XI... while he is (one of) the least busiest of all top keepers and Liverpool had the best defensive record without him.

    Anyway, I'm away again for a while.
     
  2. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    This was per @Tropeiro 's idea of Thomas Tuchel's 4-2-2-2. Two strikers comfortable out wide, two attacking midfielders (rather than wingers) behind them, defensively solid midfielders with one more creative/aggressive (Modric in this case), wingbacks (very attacking full backs). With the centre backs I'm still undecided between Pique, Ramos, Chiellini, Silva and Godin. If one goes purely on who reached the highest level then Van Dijk becomes an automatic choice IMO and adds to the difficulty in making a choice.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #178 PuckVanHeel, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:16 PM
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020 at 1:25 PM
    In terms of peak I'd also throw Hummels in the mix, before injuries started to increase the vulnerabilities in his game (I think he should be rated higher than Thiago Silva, who never played a CL semi final in his career and only one tournament semi final despite playing for Brazil).

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/12/virgil-van-dijk-liverpool-bargain-75m-what-cost-now

    www.fourfourtwo.com/features/your-premier-league-clubs-most-important-player-201617

    I've said it earlier in the thread but although I think he was excellent before Liverpool and it speaks for him he adapted immediately wherever he came, he has not much to show in the first half of the decade (a few good CL games; clean sheet record in the Scottish league). He also missed some major tournaments although that is not his fault (simple look at his game record shows this; it were not the easiest qualification groups too).

    Liverpool wanted him one and two summers earlier, but you can also say he was lucky to not end up at Arsenal in 2015 because he was "too nonchalant". Maybe he had then won the league in 2015-16 (Arsenal finished runners-up and on Expected Points they should have been champion; he might have given them that push) but for the long term it wouldn't be the best move... Many scouts made an error of judgement (??) to see him as too relaxed. Also the dutch top clubs were put off by that (next to scouts also other things play a role such as past clubs, marketability, a 'fortunate' CL run etc.).

    So overall I think you can make a good case he was the best center back of the 2nd half of the decade or somewhere up there (including the Southampton years yes, everything considered such as WhoScored ratings, the big difference in win percentage etc. then immediately confirming at Liverpool) but not for the decade as a whole. Around 2014 I was on the sceptical side (as I often am with new players) but the penny started to drop for me around 2016 when I saw him for the national side and doing very well against some big clubs too (Internazionale, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.).
     
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  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #179 PuckVanHeel, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:41 PM
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020 at 3:01 PM
    + There are a few more of those.

    Thiago Silva vs Hummels another one (for example). Despite his defensive flaws (which have gotten worse with injuries) and low handling speed, I prefer Hummels who has played a number of semi finals for national team and club alike, and several league titles in a higher ranked league.

    I also think the kicker assessment for his case is a bit strange and misleading at places. He isn't 'world class' in 2011-2012 (admittedly with frailties at the euros) but then suddenly he is in 2016? Makes to me more sense to give at least one (or a couple) around 2012 while around 2016 he was visibly outshined by Boateng (in other words: the peak is more 2012 than 2016 to me). Similarly, Neuer his recent world class ranking has received some criticism while probably not at his best still.

    Hummels his average WhoScored rating (+0.03) and peak rating (+0.06) is slightly higher for what's worth (far from perfect, I know). Of course both were very good at the 2014 World Cup (Thiago Silva lucky to not receive more yellow cards though, but was the better 'pure' defender overall).

    edit: I'll try to give the most interesting/peculiar cases. Might/will take some time.
     
    comme repped this.
  5. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    @PuckVanHeel
    I somehow forgot Hummels and to a lesser extent Boateng who gets forgotten.
    Speaking of the best CB of the 2nd half of the 10s, it becomes very challenging. A number of them had slowed down a little bit (Boateng, Hummels, Barzagli, Chiellini, Godin etc) due to age or injuries.
    I guess Varane and Ramos are relatively safe options and with further inspection Van Dijk's credentials are very impressive. He cost Liverpool 75m for a reason.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  6. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I did include Hummels fractionally above Thiago Silva.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #182 PuckVanHeel, Feb 14, 2020 at 11:33 AM
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 11:39 AM
    Would have been over 100 million if he was English (just as recurring Europa League and Champions League performer Ziyech vs 90 million valued Maddison) and had won more personal trophies as well. The FWA, Ballon d'Or and some stuff for the current season (he's certainly not worse now). The next step, what the money masters are cooking, is to relegate our clubs to the third level of Europe altogether (the new 2nd Europa League).
     
  8. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    #183 Tropeiro, Feb 15, 2020 at 7:48 AM
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020 at 8:03 AM
    Not sure. Maddison is EPL proven (his ratings and overall play are very good there), he is almost four years younger, he has good ball retention for a CM, excellent level of attacking contribution and also good dribbling ability. Ziyech for the good he is, is more a wildcard than James Madds.


    Note how Ziyech decrease his offensive production in the UCL, this is showing in the whoscored and sofascore ratings too. EPL is much closer than the UCL level than it is to Eredivisie according to Elo rating. Ziyech is still above average.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    That is your take, this is the one of your source:



    Ziyech has shown it in multiple European seasons (2016-17, 2018-19, 2019-20) so far.

    I'm done here.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    How to explain those bizarre transfer fees for a Reinier, Rodrygo or Vinicius in your mind? (Our teenagers get hijacked for free by the EPL).
     
  11. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    The 'bizarre' word is not polite in this case. Btw, if you check the smarterscout detabase you can see Reinier, Vinicius and Rodrygo being a bit more promising than Ihattaren, dutch wonderkid, for example.

     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    As usual, you don't answer the question at all and can only do a concealed dig.
     
  13. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    They are elite talents, there is nothing more to answer.
     
  14. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    #189 Tropeiro, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:34 PM
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020 at 8:43 PM
    Funny thing, talking about 'bizarre' transfer fees, it is true that Ajax took a dose of Brazilian talent and hired Antony for around 22 million?



    I don't think he's a better talent than the three youngsters that Real Madrid bought and even from other players more or less his age (like Bruno Guimarães, Pedinho, Martinelli, Veron etc), and I even made a prediction that he would fail in Europe in the first half of 2019... he is a bit like Denilson imo (a lot of circus dribbling), his finishing is really bad too.
     
  15. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The English-EPL tax is a well known thing. It's also been admitted by managers.
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #191 PuckVanHeel, Feb 17, 2020 at 1:03 PM
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020 at 1:10 PM
    Exactly, and there is also a 'Brazil bonus', as proven in the Soccernomics book.

    The same Brazil bonus that made ESPN place Neres among the best wingers but not Ziyech.

    For a part that is also related to the laws and/or non-existence of laws.


    You're evidently a Brazil propagandist. For the record: the low countries beat you in 2010, 2014 and 2018. And that with the ref in Brazil's pocket throughout (Thiago Silva escaping his marching orders in 2014 as obvious example).

    Yes, Brazil is the #1 football country, I also told that in strong words to Dearman, but you have no limits in this. Extending it to 6 or 7 Brazilians in an all-decade team.
     

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