Wynalda wants MLS to change it's season to match rest of world...

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by Coyote89, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But that doesn't include any new 2018 signings (and may include players no longer in the league in 2018).
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most of the players signed this season are still in kindergarten.

    It would be useful way to do an estimate.
     
  3. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The way I see it based on WC teams.

    Iran - (maybe 1) with Beithasour, but I don't think so because he hasn't played with them in 4 years and it just isn't worth messing around with the current administration.

    Egypt - (1 - 2 players) with Gaber and Tarek. I don't know about Tarek ... it all depends on how much he scores. As long as he is healthy and playing, Gaber has a chance.

    Costa Rica - (6-10 players) depending on health, injury, etc.

    Panama - (5 - 7 players) depending on health, injury, etc.

    Mexico - (2-3 Players). I think a Dos Santos might get left out.

    Belgium - (maybe 1) It all depends on if Ciman is valued and not dropped for someone. I think an injury to another defender helps him get in.

    Sweden - (likely 1) Gustav from Seattle.

    Uruguay - (1 player) Lodiero

    Peru - (1-2 players) that new dude in Portland and Yoshi in Orlando.

    So probably in the range of 19 - 27 without injury.

    This doesn't include those who plan on coming in July or if Zlatan comes and somehow finds himself in the World Cup.
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well July would be post World Cup break. So on average MLS is probably going to lose 1 player a team to the World Cup. And a notable group of them (the Ticos and Panamanians mainly) won't be major contributors.
     
  5. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It will be interesting (to me anyway) to see which leagues in countries which aren't there contributed the most players.
     
  6. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd bet on the Dutch.... Italian players tend to stay at home a bit more.
     
  7. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    #132 Coyote89, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
    Hungarian Newspaper: "European soccer has a major problem. You know who will win the league in most countries before the season starts. However, in America, it is always unpredictable and entertaining."

    You'll need Google translate for this, but once again, I make the argument that MLS actually does certain things BETTER than the rest of the world. Salary cap rules that ensure parity, as well as holding playoffs, make our game a lot more interesting. Just another reason why I am NOT a fan of Wynalda's proposals. Just because Europe does things a certain way doesn't make it the right solution for our league/system.

    I can't imagine what a fan of a smaller club even looks forward to in most European leagues. Most of them have no chance whatsoever of winning their league, nor will they make the UCL or Europa tourneys. So, winning a derby game or avoiding relegation is the most joy they can possible experience. And it stays that way for decades at a time for 2/3rds of the teams in most leagues. The only way you escape that purgatory of perpetual irrelevance is if some multi-billionaire or oligarch buys the team and starts spending big. Otherwise, you either accept that you're team will never be more than average or give up and follow some "big" club instead.

    https://www.tportal.hr/sport/clanak...ato-amerikanci-vole-doigravanje-foto-20180205
     
  8. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a Blackburn fan I've talked with a friend who's a Fulham fan and we've both said that we almost prefer to stay in the Championship (or in Rovers case, get back there) competing for the title than to promote up to the EPL and be an also-ran. The league is more entertaining to watch from a competition stand point, if we have a bad year there's hope to turn it around and compete the following year, and the media and money isn't so insane that it makes it feel like a circus.

    Even with Rovers in League One, now that ESPN3 has the Championship games I've probably watched more Championship games than EPL this season.
     
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  9. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    Interesting take. I don't follow the Championship much, except to see who gets promoted. But even then, it's kinda meaningless because several of the promoted teams just get sent back down a year or two later.

    And although I watch EPL and UCL games regularly, the "super team" dynamic is easily my biggest gripe. Before the season even starts, most fans can easily predict which teams will win or be near the top of the standings in all of the big European leagues based purely on their payrolls. The only league with any real intrigue is the EPL, and even there 99% of fans could accurately predict all 6 of the teams that would finish above the line for inclusion in either UCL or Europa. And it will be the same 6 again next year, and probably the year after that.

    How satisfying can that possibly be for fans? What's the point in being a fan of a mid-table or lower-table team, knowing you have no shot and it will stay that way for decades? The competitive balance that we have in almost every major American sports league, makes things FAR more interesting. Thus my repeated claims that not everything the Europeans or South Americans do is necessarily better.
     
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  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In 24(?) seasons of EPL play I think the number of "non big 6" teams that have finished in the top 4 (the CL spots) can be counted on two hands. And of course the only non big 6 teams to have won the league are Blackburn and Leicester, 20 years apart.
     
  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  12. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the main reason that I don't watch the EPL and especially the UCL; it's always the same teams. That's why I was disappointed when UEFA decided to do away with the Cup Winner's Cup. At least with that competition, you didn't always get the same the teams over and over and over ad infinitum.

    I have often thought that UEFA CCL should revert back to what it was originally, the champion of each league. No more second, third or fourth place finishers. Or keep the current format but make it so that a team can't participate in the CCL during consecutive years. At least that way, you would get away from always seeing the same old boring teams in the CCL. However, money talks so I doubt anything remotely like this will ever happen.
     
  13. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least with the Europa league, you do get the cup winners in it. That's not always good, tho. In one of the down years, my guys qualified via their domestic cup for Europe. So what happens? They get drawn against a team from their league in the first round.
     
  14. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #139 EvanJ, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    MLS has more parity than the top leagues, but England and Germany have occasional impressive rises in addition to well-known Leicester City. In 2015-2016, three of the top seven Premier League clubs were within their first four seasons of their current stint in the Premier League. There was Leicester City, Southampton in sixth, and West Ham United in seventh. All of them were ahead of Liverpool in eighth and Chelsea in tenth.

    AFC Bournemouth's owner put a lot of money into his club while they were in League Two to save them from being liquidated. In 2008-2009 they barely avoided relegation out of the Football League. They were promoted to League One the next season. Then they were promoted after three seasons in League One and two seasons in League Championship. Those two seasons were the first seasons they were ever in the top two levels. They reached the Premier League in 2015-2016 and finished 16th, 5 points ahead of the top relegated club. Last season they were 9th, which is where they are now. Even if they never make the Champions League or Europa League, that's an impressive rise. In 2009 their fans wouldn't have believed that they would be ninth in the Premier League by 2017.

    Another example is Red Bull Leipzig. In 2013-2014 they finished second in 3 Liga to get promoted to 2 Bundesliga. They were fifth in 2014-2015, and finished second to 2015-2016 to get promoted. In 2016-2017 they were second to Bayern Munich, and now they're third. Real Madrid is fourth in La Liga. When Red Bull Leipzig was in 3 Liga, would anybody have believed that at any point in the second half of a season by 2017-2018 that they would be higher in the Bundesliga than Real Madrid would be in La Liga? I'm not saying Red Bull Leipzig is better than Real Madrid.

    What clubs? Do you mean the Group Stage or a qualifying round? I don't think the Champions League or Europa League lets two clubs from the same country in one group. In qualifying rounds, clubs from the top countries are often seeded so they can't face each other even if there aren't separation rules.
     
  15. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was before there was a group stage--back in the 1990s. As I recall, the other German team was the defending Cup Winners Cup champion.

    And RB Leipzig is what is known as a "plastic" team in Germany (to a lesser extent, so is Hoffenheim). It's really not even a club but a marketing tool for Red Bull, with Red Bull Money, though they have had to comply with DFL regs (the 50 + 1 rule, for one). So they are not a good example.

    In Germany, Bayern Munich have won 10 of the last 15 and 5 in a row--and are well on target for another.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Southampton has spent 11 seasons since 1966 not in the top flight. West Ham has spent 8 seasons outside the top flight since 1958. Leicester City is the textbook definition of a yo-yo team with 19 promotions or relegations since WWII, only once dropping more than one level below the top flight (and then only for a single season). These aren't exactly teams who were finding their legs playing with the big boys.
     
  17. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...and how many championships have they won? Which is the point I think you are making....
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know the story of RB Leipzig right? After being rebuffed from buying or taking majority shareholdings in several clubs, Red Bull bought the playing rights a small 5th division club, rebranded it, relocated it, and pumped in 9 figure sums in order to get it into the Bundesliga. It's hardly a fairy tale rise.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least Hofenheim was bought by a local success story (the guy who started/owns SAP grew up in the area and was a Hoffenheim fan since childhood, he spent 20+ years investing in the club before German laws were changed allowing him to buy it outright).
     
  20. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None, but this didn't relate to that point. @EvanJ was using them as examples of impressive rises. Teams that have been in the top flight for most of modern football history bubbling up to 6th or 7th isn't exactly an impressive rise.
     
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  21. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll agree with that...
     
  22. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    Bundesliga:
    Bayern has won the league the last 5 years in a row and will easily win it again this year. 11 of the league's current teams have never won a German football championship in their entire history, and only 4 different clubs have won a title over the past 35 years. And it's not hard to figure out why the league is so lopsided. Bayern's payroll is double that of Dortmund and at least triple any other club in the league. They out-spend the bottom of the table by a margin of 12-1.

    La Liga:
    12 of the last 13 titles have been claimed by either Real Madrid or Barcelona and they have more than double the number of league titles of all other Spanish football clubs combined. And again, it's pretty easy to diagnose. Barca and Real Madrid spend more than double the amount that Atletico does on payroll and they out-spend the bottom of the table by a margin of 16-1.

    Ligue 1:
    PSG has won 4 of the last 5 titles and will easily win again this year. As you'd expect, they out-spend Monaco nearly 4-1 and the bottom of the table by a margin of 22-1.

    Serie A:
    Juventus has won the last 6 titles in a row and are just 1 point out of first place again this year. As you'd expect, they are easily the league's top-spending club and they out-spend the bottom of the table by a margin of 18-1.

    EPL:
    EPL is the Big 5 European league with the most parity, yet even here, just 4 teams (ManU, ManCity, Chelsea, and Arsenal) have accounted for 23 of the last 25 titles. And sure enough, those 4 teams have the top 4 payrolls in the league.

    In all 5 of these leagues, you can generally predict the champion and UCL participants before the season even begins.

    MLS:
    We have salary caps, playoffs, fixed amounts of TAM/GAM, and other roster, draft, and transfer rules to foster competitive balance. As a result, 5 different teams have won the MLS Cup over the last 5 years, we've had 12 different champions over the league's 22-year history, and no team has ever won the title more than 2 years in a row. Every year provides new hope and fans of any team in the league can remain optimistic and stay engaged.

    So again, there may be a lot we still need to learn from Europe (and South America) about the game of soccer, coaching, scouting, player development, etc., but there is a lot they could learn from us about how to run a sports league.
     
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  23. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In addition to the top clubs having more fans and making the TV contracts more valuable, nobody in charge of one of the top leagues would want a salary cap because the league wants the top clubs to do well in the Champions League. MLB, NBA, NHL, and NFL teams don't have Champions Leagues, and MLS clubs and fans don't always care about it and are often eliminated by richer Liga MX clubs.

    Another issue is how many European clubs are in cities or towns that are tiny by the standards of how big American cities need to be to have top level teams. According to the Fall 2015 TV market populations, the USA has Market 5 with 1.79 times the population of Market 20. The Premier League has 20 clubs, with 5 in London. London has 47.89 times the population of Bournemouth, which may or may not be the smallest city with a Premier League club, but is probably one of the smallest. If you divide 47.89 by 5 for 5 London clubs, you get 9.58, which is 5.35 times the 1.79 ratio.
     
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Burnley has a population of 83,000 and is surrounded by countryside and a few small towns. So to get 20,000 a week is amazing.
     
  25. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would seem that the big European leagues want the big disparity in team salaries between the top and the bottom clubs because who else are they going to beat up on year in and year out so they can win their respective championships. That's one of the unintended consequences of pro/rel, every season there is new blood to beat up on. Nobody expects newly promoted sides to stay up in the top flight for more than a few years and during that time, they are constantly fighting off relegation and never threatening the more established, CCL-quality clubs for their place in the top of the league. They are only there so that the CCL-quality clubs have more games during the regular season where they can rest their first team stars for the CCL games. Having the same teams win the domestic championship every year is just plain boring which is why I don't watch CCL games or most European domestic league games.
     

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