WWC19 - USA : THA - FORTUNATO (ARG)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As alluded to in the main WWC discussion thread, we'll try individual referee analysis threads for the United States' matches. That should make it easier for USWNT fans who aren't as interested in refereeing for other matches, while alleviating traffic for the forum regulars in the main thread.

    Referee: Laura FORTUNATO (ARG)
    AR1: Mariana ALMEIDA (ARG)
    AR2: Mary BLANCO (COL)
    FO: Claudia UMPIERREZ (URU)
    Reserve AR: Luciana MASCARAN (URU)
    VAR: Mauro VIGLIANO (ARG)
    AVAR1: Jose Maria SANCHEZ (ESP)
    AVAR2: Sarah JONES (NZL)
     
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  2. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    VAR confirms offside on an early goal.
     
    MrPerfectNot repped this.
  3. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shit, if I'd paid more attention to the referee assignment for this game, I'd have bought a nice cask of amontillado.
     
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  4. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And CR and VAR says no PK - thoughts?
     
  5. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    VAR confirms no penalty for Mewis.

    I thought it was a penalty.
     
  6. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Major bonus points for the Edgar Allen Poe reference.

    To the football - I really don't see how the Mewis pull-down wasn't a clear and obvious error unless VAR felt there wasn't enough evidence to determine if Mewis exaggerated the contact that sure appeared to be there.
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that’s clearly wrong to not call a penalty there. The arm tug is forceful and blatant. That’s a high threshold to set for the remainder of the match.

    For the offside goal, let’s give the AR credit. VAR might have confirmed things. But didn’t fix anything. That was a really good call.
     
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  8. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed on both counts - and the AR made the call quickly, didn't wait for VAR to make that determination.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My biggest problem on the non-penalty is the referee had her whistle to her mouth. If “well I’m not sure, but VAR will get it either way” is going through ANY referee’s head, that is bad news. Not saying it happened here, but visually it looks plausible.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Confused on what you’re suggesting. What do you mean?

    The AR makes a decision before the VAR can intervene no matter what. The VAR is checking and, if necessary, reviewing the AR’s decision. The AR never waits for a VAR to make a determination.
     
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  11. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps I was incorrect in my understanding - I assumed that one of the pathways to get to the OS call was through VAR checking the buildup to play, essentially as a safety valve function for the AR. Is that not one of the ways to get there if the AR misses the OS call? Thx
     
  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did Vigliano oversleep past kickoff?
     
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  13. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Question for those who might know. Somehow, the timings got all messed up at the beginning of the match with teams coming out of the tunnel, the handshakes, and the anthems leading into nearly 2 minutes of standing around waiting for the top of the hour KO time.

    Who is responsible for that?
     
  14. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    On the Mewis play -- I do not believe for a second that an undersized Thai defender managed to fling Mewis to the ground like Ronda Rousey throwing a hapless judo opponent with one hand on the back of the arm. If it were that strong a tug, she would have pulled the arm back, not her entire body.

    We could be generous and say that was the old "fall to draw attention to a possible foul" and not an outright dive.
     
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  15. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    ARs always are expected to make the proper call.

    Yes, the VAR can recognize a mistake by the AR, but ARs are never supposed to wait for VAR to make a decision.

    ARs delay signalling their decision when there is an immediate goal scoring opportunity--but on a goal will signal immediately that they have OS.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes but the AR is always making a decision first.

    You originally said the AR “didn’t wait” for the VAR. That’s why I was confused. The AR never waits for the VAR. She may delay her flag until the ball is in the net in order to allow the play to be subject to VAR review. But she still makes a decision—offside or not offside—before the VAR does anything.

    Does that make sense?
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FIFA Match Commissioner.
     
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  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hear you to an extent. But it’s a blatant pull, nowhere near the ball. If we are suddenly not giving the penalty because the attacker fell a bit too easily, we are effectively changing the Laws. At the very least, we are making life more difficult than it needs to be. This was a purposeful foul.
     
  19. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Dr. Joe would NEVER have allowed such a travesty to occur.
     
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  20. footyref1

    footyref1 Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what exactly is VAR for if not to call those two situations penalties? On the first, in about the 15th minute, the US player clearly gets pulled down. It is reviewed and nothing is changed. I'm actually more ok with this one. It's always difficult to tell just how hard a pull is.

    But the one right at halftime is a stone cold pen. The defender clearly ends her slide in the path of the American bringing her down. I get the score line and all, but that has to be a pen in the World Cup.

    Also, Unkle agrees with the non-call on that last one, saying the American jumped into the Thai player. Really? If she's just going to be called on to agree with every call why even have her? You regular color-commentary guy/gal can do the same thing.

    Edit: Thanks Massref for directing me here. Didn't realize this game was getting special treatment.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I struggle to explain that second one. I guess Vigliano sees what Unkel said and that he viewed it as the US player jumping into the challenge? But, c’mom. The Thai player way over committed and simply fouled her.

    I love how the commentator always have to just parrot the idea VAR was “widely successful” in Russia while actively complaining about how it’s working. No one seems to want to think for themselves.
     
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  22. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It does make sense - thx
     
  23. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I don't have audio on for this one, but it has felt to me like Fox feels obligated to support VR.
     
  24. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Dr. Joe Machnik

    EDIT: @AremRed beat me to the joke.
     
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  25. footyref1

    footyref1 Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, that escalated quickly...
     
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