As for WUSA shutting down, I feel sorry for the fans of the league and the individual teams. Thankfully in my sports fan career none of my favorite teams, the teams I whole-heartedly support, have folded or moved - although is that a good thing with the Bengals? - let alone an entire league going away. And, at the risk of getting all mushy, it sucks for those PTHs that had professional women athletes to look up to, not that they can't have male athletes as "heroes" but it's nice for them to see some successful women athletes. Plus, I hate to see any soccer league go away. However, I won't lose sleep over it simply because I didn't follow the league. My sports life will continue.
Exactly!! Thank you - I've been trying to put my finger on it all morning. Women's soccer is to men's soccer as WNBA is to NBA. The point is the same, the rules are the same, you play on the same court - but it's not the same game. That's not to make a judgement about either, just an acknowledgement of the reality.
Speaking of being out of touch. Hang, if your day job is revisionist history, I suggest a quick run thru the classifieds as part of your "to do" list for today. The "women's soccer bashing" kicked into full gear when someone had to bitch about the "we beat the world at their own game" commercial, as if it affected them so personally and deeply, they were on the phone scheduling time with Dr. Phil to help them get over it. Being a fan of women's soccer, I don't see the need to bitch about that commercial. Others, who operate under a misguided and outdated mindset and feel the urge to belittle women's soccer globally, just had to throw in that little nugget to bitch about. I'm not done yet with you, hang. It does not take a freaking rocket scientist to know that women's soccer is NOT discussed here at all, unless it is to ridicule it. Funny that I never saw any NCR women's soccer threads where we discussed how Mia Hamm was doing, or otherwise. Remember when we had the thread WAAAAAY back in which we were discussing the WWC coming to Columbus, and the ABSOLUTE sh!tstorm that resulted from everyone telling me "we don't care about women's soccer here blah blah blah". And then Bill Archer decides to post a "the WUSA is dead" thread yesterday. He could care less about the WUSA. He knows it. I certainly know it, and you should know better. I may not respect Bill in many ways, but I do give him credit for being intelligent, and knowing what to post to get the maximum reaction from the forum regulars. You want to keep this thread on topic and discuss why the WUSA failed? Fine. Like I said, I'm in agreement that it could have been run better. However, others (NOT ME) moved this whole discussion into the 5th cocentric level of Hell with a "hey remember that commercial from FOUR FREAKING years ago" offering. I really think the mods should put a kibosh on any women's soccer topic in this forum. Nothing good will ever come of it. It's well known that most of the regulars here don't care enough about it to actually have an intelligent conversation about the subject, and it just gives those who DO like to prooke, the opportunity to slag on women's soccer in lieu of focusing on more pertinent issues that we all have in common.
I think the difference is this: The world doesn't particularly care about women's soccer. The US, China, Sweden are the trailblazers of the sport. Women's soccer is the USA's game as much as it is China's and Sweden's. It's not like we're outsiders. We're a powerhouse. The USA beating Russia in the Olympics in 1980 was beating them at "their" game. The Russians were professional players. We had a bunch of college kids. In this case, the women were ranked in the top 3...if you're that much of a favorite, you're not beating anyone at their game...you're beating them at your game. If the US or South Korea or Japan had won the world cup last year....that would have been beating the world at their game....and even there it would be a stretch.
Bill, IMO, if you have a sport in which the rules are the same for both men and women, and (like you said) if the "point" of the game is the same, it IS the same sport, and the same game. When I turn on soccer on the TV, they don't go into a "Well, since the women are playing, this really isn't soccer" rant. Soccer is soccer. The fan popularity may not be equal, but it does not negate the fact that many countries around the world field women's national teams, therefore it makes women's soccer a global sport.
Let me put it this way: In women's football, the USA is the #1 team in the world. It's therefore OUR game. You are not #1 in the world and have the sport not be your game, PERIOD. We're #1 in American Football...Our game We're #1 in Basketball...Our Game We're #1 in Baseball...Our game. If Cuba beat us...they would say we beat the Americans at their game If we beat Canada in hockey, we beat the Canadians at their game. If we beat England in a mens soccer match, we beat them at their game. If we beat Pakistan (or India) in Cricket we beat them at their game. If we beat China in the world championship of womens soccer, and we are expected to be in the finals....we won at our game....which also happens to be China's game. You're not a consistant powerhouse like China is and not have it instantly be their game either.
Andy...let me stop laughing.... okay now... Classifieds? How is saying that you don't like that a ommercial which streached the truth womens soccer bashing. Who is Dr. Phil? Not caring about the WUSA is different from bashing it. I could care less about the importance of sub zero water removal in switzerland during the winter months. That doesn't mean I bash it. They are doing their job. Just don't expect me to act interested. There have been aproximately 500 different threads about why thye WUSA failed or was gonna fail here in the past year. None of us care enough to go there and read through 150 posts. If you care enough go over there. We just have a little peaceful thread, well we did until you started. As I said before, people were showing genuine sympathy in this thread. That was good. If you look through all the posts Andy you are the one with the most anger. Maybe Dr. Phil could help you.
Finally you got bounced. Once again, some damn fine moderating. No...it didn't. You'll notice there was a shitload of posts that got deleted prior to me posting about the Allstate commercial. That post was more on the lines of "Why did WUSA fail?" I responded why I was turned off from the get go. Equating the inter-country competition level of the women's game with the men's game is disingenous, and quite frankly, it was deliberately misleading. It worked. Idiots all over the US had no clue just how un-popular the women's game was world wide, just how poor the US teams competition was, and how such an accomplishment was nowhere near as difficult as success in the men's game. You swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I wasn't buying. Had they taken a different approach, they may have had a shot at my interest. They didn't. They lost me before they even started. I am fairly certain I am not alone.
You know WUSA folding might be good for Women's soccer. The buisness side of WUSA was just horrible. It seemed like no one there had any experience running a buisness, much less a sports league. The only thing WUSA had going for it was they had the best Women soccer players in the world that their 8 teams could hold and they were playing in a country that at least respects women have the right to play sports. What is left for professional women is the USL W-League. The pay will not be as good, but the USL as a buisness is experienced and establised. While it's languised since WUSA started, the USL has been operating for a long time and they have seemed to find a good buisness model for most of their leagues and teams. In the W-League, instead of 8 teams for the best of the world to come to they have 26. If the USL is able to pick up the ball and run with it, I truely think it will be better for Women's soccer.
dds has been eating his Wheaties. Brilliant. For myshap, I would tend to agree, but for one thing. The reason I would agree is that I've always thought MLS was done backwards. They should have let a bunch of cities field teams and then let the cream, the cities with good support and intelligent management, rise to the top, essentially promoting themselves into a top tier. If your scenario for W League were to go true to form, the same could happen with them. Rather than telling certain groups up front that they're "the big leagues" let the marketplace sort i out. Grow at your pace, succeed because you're good and fail if you suck. My caveat? Frank Marcos runs W League under the auspices of USL, and he's in it for Frank, Franks' pocket, and Frank's ego. He keeps a tight rein on the leagues, which he owns outright, and isn't about to let anybody take anything away from him.
Of course not, as I somehow doubt being a gigantic panty waste is a violation of TOS. With that being said, I'll gladly kick in another $30 if such an ammendment could be made.
I don't know if they ever tied the knot, but on his salary, I doubt she's gonna kick him to the Monster. I'm guessing that half the players will get college coaching jobs. And they'll probably make more money there than they did in WUSA. Nevertheless, I'm still disappointed to see it go. Wow, Andy. Sorry to see that.
Dammit. They're gonna start charging me for these keyboards. They're beginning to doubt my story that the sprinkler system occasionally spurts Lipton Brisk all over my desk. Here's Nomar: ``It was the people running the league,'' Garciaparra said. ``That's what it was, straight up. They took the money and didn't know how to budget it. When you overspend a four-year budget in one year, that's poor management.'' http://www2.bostonherald.com/sport/red_sox/snotes09162003.htm
Sometimes though thats the type of management you want, especially in a buisness that hasn't entirely made it yet. I don't have any problem with him taking the franchise money and running with it. The better he does the longer the USL stays open and can fully find their audiance. However, he has done pretty well with FSW. I mean MLS can't even get FSW to send a crew over and the USL gets them to do that every Friday for A-League teams and the championship games for the other divisions. To me that's doing pretty well. With WUSA folding maybe he'll get them to broadcast more W-League matches.
The problem with the way Marcos runs the USL is his inability to say no to money. The Cincinnati Riverhawks fiasco was proof that he cares about his own wallet than about the individual players or the sport itself. I believe the A-League on Friday nights is an infomercial at 15K a pop. Yes, Prof, they blew thier budget thar fast if not faster.
hey, i just got in. how did andy get a red? someone please direct me to the post, i'm sure it would be funny.
Apparently not one particular post. It's similar to some of those cards given during matches for repeated fouls. Quantity over quality.
My understanding was that FSW and the individual teams shared production costs. That's why you see more teams then others because some can afford more production costs then others. Still he set that deal up. MLS doesn't get anything from FSW except a spot at 7:30 they have to pay for. Also I don't think you can blame Marcos for the Cincinnati problem. Everyone in the A-League wanted him out, however, the only money Ranieri does spend is on lawyers to keep control of his club. He had what the A-League wanted as far as qualifications to play this season and there was nothing the USL could do to keep them out. Ranieri is a bad owner and, from the fact that he thinks it's ok not to honor his contracts, probably not a good person either. The stories I've gotten from Cincy fans in the know who said there were several buyers for the Riverhawks last year when he wanted to sell the team for 250,000. However, Ranieri wouldn't sell because they didn't want anything to do with him and he would only sell if he got a 5 year contract as the HC. No sponsors in Cincy want anything to do with him because A)he's totally eroded the fan base in Cincy B)Don't like or trust Ranieri. With all this he has the audacity to ask the fans that stuck around for some reason to help him raise 300,000 just so he can screw with everybody next year. Ranieri's the problem not Marcos and the market has spoken; there will be no Riverhawks next year.