Maybe, don't know them enough. Some numbers on WCs. Not my opinion about masterpieces of tackling, just boring old numbers. 1930 (South America) 1 - Uruguay 2 - Argentina 5 - Chile 6 - Brazil 8 - Paraguay 10 - Peru 12 - Bolivia Average placing: 6.2857142857142857142857142857143 3 - USA 13 - Mexico Average placing: 8 4 - Yugoslavia 7 - Romenia 9 - France 11 - Belgium Average placing: 7.75 1934 (Europe) 1 - Italy 2 - Czechoslovakia 3 - Germany 4 - Austria 5 - Spain 6 - Hungary 7 - Switzerland 8 - Sweden 10 - France 11 - Netherlands 12 - Romenia 15 - Belgium Average placing: 7 9 - Argentina 14 - Brazil Average placing: 11.5 13 - Egypt Average placing: 13 16 - USA Average placing: 16 1938 (Europe) 1 - Italy 2 - Hungary 4 - Sweden 5 - Czechoslovakia 6 - Switzerland 8 - France 9 - Romenia 10 - Germany 11 - Poland 12 - Norway 13 - Belgium 14 - Netherlands Average placing: 7.9166666666666666666666666666667 3 - Brazil Average placing: 3 7 - Cuba Average placing: 7 15 - Dutch East Indies Average placing: 15 Average placings before WW2 South America: 6.9285714285714285714285714285713 Europe: 7.5555555555555555555555555555553 North and Central America: 10.333333333333333333333333333333 Africa: 13 Oceania: 15 1950 (South America) 1 - Uruguay 2 - Brazil 9 - Chile 11 - Paraguay 12 - Bolivia Average placing: 7 3 - Sweden 4 - Spain 5 - Yugoslavia 6 - Switzerland 7 - Italy 8 - England Average placing: 5.5 10 - USA 13 - Mexico Average placing: 11.5 1954 (Europe) 1 - West Germany 2 - Hungary 3 - Austria 5 - Switzerland 7 - England 8 - Yugoslavia 9 - France 10 - Turkey 11 - Italy 12 - Belgium 14 - Czechoslovakia 15 - Scotland Average placing: 8.0833333333333333333333333333333 4 - Uruguay 6 - Brazil Average placing: 5 13 - Mexico Average placing: 13 16 - South Korea Average placing: 16 1958 (Europe) 1 - Brazil 9 - Paraguay 13 - Argentina Average placing: 7.6666666666666666666666666666667 2 - Sweden 3 - France 4 - West Germany 5 - Wales 6 - USSR 7 - Northern Ireland 8 - Yugoslavia 10 - Czechoslovakia 11 - Hungary 12 - England 14 - Scotland 15 - Austria Average placing: 8.0833333333333333333333333333333 16 - Mexico Average placing: 16 1962 (South America) 1 - Brazil 3 - Chile 10 - Argentina 13 - Uruguay 14 - Colombia Average placing: 8.2 2 - Czechoslovakia 4 - Yugoslavia 5 - USSR 6 - Hungary 7 - West Germany 8 - England 9 - Italy 12 - Spain 15 - Bulgaria 16 - Switzerland Average placing: 8.4 11 - Mexico Average placing: 11 1966 (Europe) 1 - England 2 - West Germany 3 - Portugal 4 - USSR 6 - Hungary 9 - Italy 10 - Spain 13 - France 15 - Bulgaria 16 - Switzerland Average placing: 7.9 5 - Argentina 7 - Uruguay 11 - Brazil 14 - Chile Average placing: 9.25 8 - North Korea Average placing: 8 12 - Mexico Average placing: 12 Average placings during 50s and 60s South America: 7.4233333333333333333333333333332 Europe: 7.5933333333333333333333333333332 Asia: 12 North and Central America: 12.7 1970 (North and Central America) 1 - Brazil 4 - Uruguay 7 - Peru Average placing: 4 2 - Italy 3 - West Germany 5 - USSR 8 - England 9 - Sweden 10 - Romenia 11 - Belgium 12 - Israel 13 - Bulgaria 15 - Czechoslovakia Average placing: 8.8 6 - Mexico 16 - El Salvador Average placing: 11 14 - Morocco Average placing: 14 1974 (Europe) 1 - West Germany 2 - Netherlands 3 - Poland 5 - Sweden 6 - East Germany 7 - Yugoslavia 9 - Scotland 10 - Italy 12 - Bulgaria Average placing: 6.1111111111111111111111111111111 4 - Brazil 8 - Argentina 11 - Chile 13 - Uruguay Average placing: 9 14 - Australia Average placing: 14 15 - Haiti Average placing: 15 16 - Zaire Average placing: 16 1978 (South America) 1 - Argentina 3 - Brazil 8 - Peru Average placing: 4 2 - Netherlands 4 - Italy 5 - Poland 6 - West Germany 7 - Austria 10 - Spain 11 - Scotland 12 - France 13 - Sweden 15 - Hungary Average placing: 8.5 9 - Tunisia Average placing: 9 14 - Iran Average placing: 14 16 - Mexico Average placing: 16 1982 (Europe) 1 - Italy 2 - West Germany 3 - Poland 4 - France 6 - England 7 - USSR 8 - Austria 9 - Northern Ireland 10 - Belgium 12 - Spain 14 - Hungary 15 - Scotland 16 - Yugoslavia 19 - Czechoslovakia Average placing: 9 5 - Brazil 11 - Argentina 20 - Peru 22 - Chile Average placing: 14.5 13 - Algeria 17 - Cameroon Average placing: 15 18 - Honduras 24 - El Salvador Average placing: 21 21 - Kuwait Average placing: 21 23 - New Zealand Average placing: 23 1986 (North and Central America) 1 - Argentina 5 - Brazil 13 - Paraguay 16 - Uruguay Average placing: 8.75 2 - West Germany 3 - France 4 - Belgium 7 - Spain 8 - England 9 - Denmark 10 - USSR 12 - Italy 14 - Poland 15 - Bulgaria 17 - Portugal 18 - Hungary 19 - Scotland 21 - Northern Ireland Average placing: 11.357142857142857142857142857143 6 - Mexico 24 - Canada Average placing: 15 11 - Morocco 22 - Algeria Average placing: 16.5 20 - South Korea 23 - Iraq Average placing: 21.5 Average placings during 70s and 80s South America: 8.05 Europe: 8.7536507936507936507936507936502 Africa: 14.1 North and Central America: 15.6 Oceania: 18.5 Asia: 18.833333333333333333333333333333 1990 (Europe) 1 - West Germany 3 - Italy 4 - England 5 - Yugoslavia 6 - Czechoslovakia 8 - Ireland 10 - Spain 12 - Belgium 13 - Romenia 14 - Netherlands 17 - Austria 18 - Scotland 19 - USSR 21 - Sweden Average placing: 10.785714285714285714285714285714 2 - Argentina 9 - Brazil 15 - Uruguay 16 - Colombia Average placing: 10.5 7 - Cameroon 20 - Egypt Average placing: 13.5 11 - Costa Rica 22 - USA Average placing: 16.5 23 - South Korea 24 - UAE Average placing: 23.5 1994 (North and Central America) 1 - Brazil 10 - Argentina 19 - Colombia 21 - Bolivia Average placing: 12.75 2 - Italy 3 - Sweden 4 - Bulgaria 5 - Germany 6 - Romenia 7 - Netherlands 8 - Spain 11 - Belgium 14 - Norway 16 - Switzerland 17 - Ireland 18 - Russia 23 - Greece Average placing: 10.307692307692307692307692307692 9 - Nigeria 22 - Cameroon 24 - Morocco Average placing: 18.333333333333333333333333333333 12 - Saudi Arabia 20 - South Korea Average placing: 16 13 - Mexico 15 - USA Average placing: 14 1998 (Europe) 1 - France 3 - Croatia 4 - Netherlands 5 - Italy 7 - Germany 8 - Denmark 9 - England 10 - Yugoslavia 11 - Romenia 15 - Norway 17 - Spain 19 - Belgium 23 - Austria 27 - Scotland 29 - Bulgaria Average placing: 12.533333333333333333333333333333 2 - Brazil 6 - Argentina 14 - Paraguay 16 - Chile 21 - Colombia Average placing: 11.8 12 - Nigeria 18 - Morocco 24 - South Africa 25 - Cameroon 26 - Tunisia Average placing: 21 13 - Mexico 22 - Jamaica 32 - USA Average placing: 22.333333333333333333333333333333 20 - Iran 28 - Saudi Arabia 30 - South Korea 31 - Japan Average placing: 27.25 2002 (Asia) 1 - Brazil 16 - Paraguay 18 - Argentina 24 - Ecuador 26 - Uruguay Average placing: 17 2 - Germany 3 - Turkey 5 - Spain 7 - England 10 - Denmark 12 - Ireland 13 - Sweden 14 - Belgium 15 - Italy 21 - Portugal 22 - Russia 23 - Croatia 25 - Poland 28 - France 30 - Slovenia Average placing: 15.333333333333333333333333333333 4 - South Korea 9 - Japan 31 - China 32 - Saudi Arabia Average placing: 19 6 - Senegal 17 - South Africa 20 - Cameroon 27 - Nigeria 29 - Tunisia Average placing: 19.8 8 - USA 11 - Mexico 19 - Costa Rica Average placing: 12.666666666666666666666666666667 2006 (Europe) 1 - Italy 2 - France 3 - Germany 4 - Portugal 7 - England 8 - Ukraine 9 - Spain 10 - SWitzerland 11 - Netherlands 14 - Sweden 20 - Czech Republic 21 - Poland 22 - Croatia 32 - Serbia and Montenegro Average placing: 11.714285714285714285714285714286 5 - Brazil 6 - Argentina 12 - Ecuador 18 - Paraguay Average placing: 10.25 13 - Ghana 19 - Côte d'Ivoire 23 - Angola 24 - Tunisia 30 - Togo Average placing: 21.8 15 - Mexico 26 - USA 27 - Trinidad and Tobago 31 - Costa Rica Average placing: 24.75 16 - Australia Average placing: 16 17 - South Korea 25 - Iran 28 - Saudi Arabia 29 - Japan Average placing: 24.75 Average placings during the 90s and 00s Europe: 12.134871794871794871794871794868 South America: 12.46 Oceania: 16 North and Central America: 18.049999999999999999999999999998 Africa: 18.886666666666666666666666666666 Asia: 22.1 All-time average placings South America: 8.715476190476190476190476190476 Europe: 9.0093528693528693528693528693495 (for me a draw, as in Club World Cups) North and Central America: 14.17083333333333333333333333333 Africa: 15.328888888888888888888888888887 Oceania: 16.5 (sic) Asia: 17.644444444444444444444444444443 Host continents Europe: 10 South America: 4 North and Central America: 3 Asia: 1
Nice, to put all the effort in this. But it's at least questionable to give all the 4th placed teams or quarter final/Ro16 losers a different ranking. For example why ist Spain in 2006 9th and Ecuador 12th? Why is Brazil and Argentina 5th and 6th and England and Ukraine 7th and 8th? And it's funny that UEFA has the best ranking for example in 1994 and 2002 but not in 1998 and 2006.
Thanks, Lusankya. Right now can't properly confirm it, but, comparing sources I found which all fit in each other, am quite sure it has to be the FIFA tables, not available within official page. Of course disputable, as teams lower placed, for instance, might have been eliminated in harder conditions. Came to mind giving different weights for different kinds of achievements, but I preferred a simple way, as my point was mainly on squads arguably unworthy of qualification, presenting a raw interpretation for the readers, who can have their own approaches.
Besides the flaw that Lusankya pointed out, I think there is another problem with this approach. The averages are not independent of the size of the group after 4th. I hope I can explain what I mean. If you rank a certain UEFA team as, say, 5th, then another UEFA team cannot be ranked 5th. The next UEFA team will get a higher ranking. As will the next and the next. Of course this goes for the other groups as well. But those other groups are sometimes very much smaller, so there are less teams to receive a higher ranking. This will have a (possibly only slight) downward effect on the averages for really small groups as compared to large groups. Hmmm that may not be true at all.
Well noted, have thought about, however the averages by decades I picked showed me a constant pattern, a very close balance between "qualified" (quotes for ancient periods) Europe and SA teams. If the big and small samples ratings were weighed, probably the matching would appear even closer (it was my goal, must confess).
A truly objective comparison is probably just impossible. There may be too many differences between the two to allow for a system that can also be understood Still, must keep trying
Surely. Well, Faroe Islands never played a non-european opponent. At least for the last 20 years. I wonder how they would end vs Venezuela? Probably only losing with 1 or 2 goals I think, they have some quite impressive results.
With so many south american players playing in Europe, the game from both of these sides of the world are converging all the time. It gets harder to clearly differentiate them nowadays.
Venezuela are far and away the weakest team in CONMEBOL, but they would still be able to beat the Faroes pretty handily. I'd imagine most of the upper half of CONCACAF probably could, as well.
Not as epic as that one match a few years ago between the two lowest-ranked teams in FIFA - I think it was Bhutan and Montserrat?
Ìndeed, it's good to know that we lived through at least one moment in sporting history that we can tell our grandchildren about.
A win by 1 or 2 goals for Venezuela or a draw. Faroe Islands recently tied Austria in the World Cup qualifiers (could be regarded as a freak result), and I would guess that Austria is not weaker than Venezuela. Great compilation of stats, btw!
And Venezuela beat Uruguay 0-4 in Montevideo for 2006 WCQ, and Ecuador in Quito for 2010 WCQ. As well as qualifying for the upcoming U-20 world cup in Egypt. Venezuela may not be a top team, but they are very prepared, and none of their recent successes have been flukes.
Venezuela greatly improved over the past years! 10 years ago they were rock bottom with only 3 points, now they usually reach 16-18 points. This qualification they already got 13 points, I hope they can qualify for 2014 (maybe for 2010?). How many spots does SA recieve for 2014, Host +4.5? That would be a great opportunity for Venezuela.
I think the Euroepan minnows like San Marino, Andorra, Lichenstein, Luzembourg and Faroe Islands are underrated in world football, they genereally have much more respectable scorelines than minnows in other confederations despite playing tougher oppostion. Faroe Islands too are probably the best out of that group anyway. I would favour Venezula in an encounter with the Faroe Islands, but I wouldn't necessarily expect a thrashing as they frequently come away with a least respectable scroelines form much bettter teams than Venezula.
My approach, later have noticed, could sound like bias against regions outside of Europe and South America, so I'm going to a list of teams whose performances in WC were directly more succesful than formers' (in stage level). 2006 Ghana > Czech Republic Australia > Croatia Côte d'Ivoire > Serbia and Montenegro 2002 South Korea > Spain, Italy, Portugal & Poland Senegal > Sweden, Uruguay & France United States > Portugal & Poland Japan > Belgium & Russia Mexico > Italy, Croatia & Ecuador South Africa > Slovenia 1998 Nigeria > Paraguay, Spain & Bulgaria Mexico > Belgium Morocco > Scotland 1994 Nigeria > Argentina & Greece (#4 Bulgaria in group stage) Saudi Arabia > Belgium Mexico > Norway & Ireland (#2 Italy in group stage) United States > Colombia South Korea > Bolivia 1990 Cameroon > Romania, Colombia & USSR (#2 Argentina in group stage) Costa Rica > Scotland & Sweden 1986 Mexico > Paraguay & Bulgaria (#4 Belgium in group stage) Morocco > Poland & Portugal (#8 England in group stage) ---------- 1982 Algeria > Chile Cameroon > Peru ========== 1970 Mexico > Belgium 1966 North Korea > Italy & Chile Mexico > France 1962 Mexico > Spain ========== 1938 Cuba > Romania 1930 United States > Paraguay & Belgium Thank you, and for all the replies.
Except that those teams aren't even favourites at home. Aside from teams like Brazil and Argentina, Venezuela is EXPECTED to win at home. They've beaten every other team at home. You cannot say the same thing about San Marino, or Andorra, et. al. In fact, they'd be hard pressed to score even five goals throughout their whole qualifying campaigns.
Good point, didn't know about these results, certainly quite impressive! It could also depend on whether the differences in style/approach to the game would work in favour of Venezuela - for example, I assume that the Faroe Islands are a relatively physical side and would play defensively (the latter part may not be to Venezuela's taste, as their opponents in South America rely on more attacking football against them).
But Venezuela is no minnow (anymore). Conmebol is the only confederation which has none. Of course some minnows in Europe can become better, for example the Asian UEFA members, which have populations of several millions. But some countries have only a population of x0000 and there is no way they can become much better. So at least Liechtenstein, Andorra, Faroe and San Marino will always remain minnows. The other minnows could "easily" become as good as cyprus, that means become teams which are still rather weak away but strong at home.