Worst Refereeing Experiences

Discussion in 'Referee' started by La Rikardo, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    I'm sure there's a thread like this somewhere in the past, but I need to let off some steam after my day today, and it certainly doesn't belong in the Best Story thread.

    On Wednesday I stopped by the adult soccer office to pick up my check and got sucked in to watch the last half-hour of the Spain-Portugal game with a guy who works at the office and another referee who was also there picking up his check. I commented that it would be an interesting experience to referee a game where there's a significant language barrier between you and the players. The guy who works there pointed out that that would be like an English speaker working games in the local Hispanic leagues. The other guy, who is Hispanic and works in a Hispanic league, asked me if I wanted to come out to do some games. Now, I've heard some pretty bad stories about the Hispanic leagues, but I thought it sounded interesting and these leagues are literally the only refereeing opportunity in the state most Sundays, so I agreed.

    So I showed up at the fields today for a set of four games, all as an AR. I was told to be there at 1 so I got there at 12:45. The fields were so far behind that my first game didn't get started until after 2. The first game went well. It was enjoyable and the players weren't any more difficult than a typical sanctioned adult D2 game.

    The two fields here were side by side with no more than five feet between the touch lines. Now, this wouldn't be a huge problem if it weren't for the fact that spectators thought it would be okay to stand in this area to watch the games. When I complained about this to the other referees, they just told me to go around the spectators. I wasn't on this touch line for the first game, but I was for the second game. The second game was not close. The red team had attackers who were pretty good at watching offside and the green team had a sweeper who was completely lazy and expected an offside call every time he stood still in the middle of the field. The red team was attacking my end in the first half. At one point about 20 minutes in, this sweeper was running toward his goal and then stopped right before the ball was played to try to pull the running attacker offside. Admittedly, I didn't get a great look at the offside decision because half of my attention was on the spectators I was trying to avoid running into, but I'm pretty sure he was even. Anyway, he was clear on goal and scored easily. Defenders surrounded me, I told them he was even, they wouldn't believe me, I asked them to go away, they didn't, and the referee did nothing about it. After a couple more times the attackers were lazy and I kept the flag down, the referee finally dealt with the dissent by having me and the other AR switch sides. Ridiculous. I continued to be verbally harassed by the green team and the referee never dealt with it either verbally or with misconduct. Also, at one point during this game I saw a guy in my way so I moved to go around him and turned my attention back on the field, but I still ended up hitting him pretty hard. My shoulder hurt for the next couple hours.

    On the third game, both teams showed up wearing red uniforms and they had nothing else. So we played with two red teams. The only way we could tell the difference between the teams was the color of their shorts. The referee apparently didn't mind, but it was extraordinarily frustrating to me.

    The fourth game was a women's game that turned out to be one of the most boring, unskilled games I've ever been involved in. About eight minutes in, the referee had himself replaced by another guy who did some strange things. For starters, he didn't seem to be aware of the word "deliberate" with respect to handling offenses. This was especially unfortunate because, as I said, these girls were absolutely terrible, unskilled soccer players. Also, at two different times he stopped play for an injury and restarted with what appeared to be a direct free kick. WTH. On the bright side, we were told to shorten halves from 40 minutes to 35 minutes because we started so late, but the girls wanted to play only 30 minute halves. We ended up playing 26 minutes in the first half and 24 minutes in the second half. So at least it got over quickly.

    The horror stories I'd heard were all true. I came home after eight hours with $95, a migraine, and loads of frustration. I shall not be doing this again.

    Anyone else care to share their bad refereeing experiences?
     
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  2. GTReferee

    GTReferee Member

    Feb 24, 2011
    I grew up refereeing in the type of chaotic hispanic league you describe. Personally, I feel that I learned immensely from all the craziness. It taught me to think outside the box and to be comfortable in an ustructured environment where you must be completely self reliant with no support. To each his own though...
     
  3. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Don't feel bad, I have twice seen white shields do this.

    No, I take it back. In one of those cases the keeper had the ball in his hands when the ref blew his whistle, and the restart was that the keeper walked to the top of the box and punted.
     
  4. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    It's not the players that bother me so much, and honestly, I probably would go back if they'd give me equal centers and lines because the man management is so much more difficult in this league. I think I'd learn a lot if I were able to do that. But to have to run line on four games with people constantly in my way on top of getting bitched at by lazy, stupid players is too much.
     
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  5. GTReferee

    GTReferee Member

    Feb 24, 2011
    You're overlooking the seniority based nature of assigning in a league like that. You'll have to do at least a few weeks of lines before you "earn" a middle, even if you're a much more qualified referee than the current ones getting middles. That was and is my experience with hispanic leagues.
     
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  6. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    I realize that. I'm just saying if they'd do that. That's why I'm not going back lol. Although the guy who assigns it works in the sanctioned leagues too and he thinks I'm really good, so you never know, I guess.
     
  7. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    Two words La Rikardo: gong show.
     
  8. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you want to be a real referee, this is what you need to do.
     
  9. NCFire

    NCFire Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Chapel Hill
    I agree with those who say these games are valuable, I know they are/have been to me.
    The pull quote above, though, should give you pause. Unsanctioned games lack the protections we all enjoy from USSF (insurance, clear disciplinary structure [even if it sometimes fails massively], etc.)

    I stopped working one of the local unsanctioned leagues when the directors couldn't give me a clear description of their insurance/liability/disciplinary recourse situation.
     
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  10. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    I regularly do men's Hispanic league as well. A couple of thoughts.

    Town A's league used to be as you describe. Over the years, even they got tired of the problems (injuries, fights, police calls, very late game starts, spectator problems, etc.). But for the last few years they elected a new president, and have turned this league 180 degrees around. USSF Assignor, games start after 15 min grace period or we abandon, player passes, not on roster = no play, USSF reports (even if no injury/card/send-off), league discipline person between the benches. For a couple of years, we even had police detail for the playoff finals (no need for them now).

    Language barrier is a myth. All most everyone there understands and can speak English just fine. The only barrier is you not understanding when they are insulting you :)).

    GTReferee nailed it on the seniority for assignments (the league president and vice-pres are there every week in the Assignor's ear about our performance), but the players won't respect you until you've paid your dues in their eyes, and you get some street cred by being there often.

    I'd ask around and see if there is another, better run, league you can get into. There are so many benefits if you can do these level and kind of games (player & bench management, wall management, goalie & time wasting management, foul recognition, command presence, crew communication, send offs, mass confrontation, ...). It's good for you.

    What about Town B's league? Well it is as you describe, and it never ever crosses my mind to go there (but you will still learn alot if you can take your lumps on the rest of it). Loop back to Town A's league.

    YMMV.
     
  11. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I enjoy Latino games, probably even prefer them, but not the unaffiliated, anything goes kind of leagues, Latino or Anglo. There is a lot to learn about player management in these games, things that can't be taught in a clinic. This is a huge opportunity to learn the value of a refereeing persona. "How do I want the players to think of me?" My approach is that I am el patron. I am above them and they must respect me for that reason and, therefore, I am also responsible to protect my people, my people on both teams. Hint: that means that we call it tighter than you would in a game between two anglo teams. These games will help you adjust to the idea that we call the game that the players expect to have called, because Latino players, by and large, have different expectations of what will get called, what's a bad foul [even a hint of a studs up tackle needs a strong response] and what's too picky. As for the language, you learn a little soccer Spanish, including the bad words and pronounce the words they way the players do. You can build a huge rep by sending off somebody for cussing you out in Spanish. It will pretty much only happen once. :cool:
     
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  12. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    That is the exact reason I'd like to be able to do these games. But there are only so many extraneous factors I'm willing to put up with before it's not worth it. I'll have to figure out what other league I can try.
     
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  13. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    This is the part that got me. Four lines on adult matches at an average rate of just under $24 per match? Yowza. I won't be moving to Utah anytime soon.

    Other than that, a few others have already said it, but you've got to do a few lines in Men's leagues before they start to recognize you, and give you any respect. First weeekend, you're fresh meat, and they're going to try to find out if you've got a spine. CR should have protected you better, but you've got to be able to snarl back and tell the to be quiet and play. "Nope, #5 was back and kept them onside. He was good." "7, you left early. Tell you teammate to play you sooner." Be decisive, even if you're not sure.
     
  14. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The abuse in the middle would be worse! Run the line and learn. I worked a lot games like that for referees I Thought I was better than. By the time I go in the middle it was still rough. In all seriousness, these are the games that will make you a good referee. It's one thing to be called a gazelle on youth game. I had an assessor once tell me that putting me on a game he saw me work at regions was like driving a ferrari on the Long Island Expressway, but the Guatemalan league games I had the next week were still humbling. When you work these games and do them well, it's an awesome feeling.
     
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  15. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Moving from any youth level to mens ethnic leagues is like night and day! There's no way to get ready for your first whistle, it will still shock you!

    run the lines watch how the CR interacts with the players, this is the level that will make or break your path to state referee. It becomes MUCH more than just calling fouls, it becomes managing an entire game and realizing the trouble makers BEFORE they become trouble makers. There's real emotion attached to these games for hte players, the level of "discussion" is through the roof compared to any youth game you'll ever see. The skill level may not be that different, heck it may even be lower, but the requirements on you, as a referee, to read the game, players and mood, then handle it all, are astronomically higher than any youth league.

    Our local ethnic league does move grade 7's onto lines, and eventually into the middle. They tend to get state refs for their lines when they make their first journey into the middle. I did a line for a very good grade 7 as he did his first whistle (after MANY lines). His immediate reaction at half time was "am I screwing up? everything I make a call or no call, they are all arguing" My answer, "nope, you're doing fine, keep moving, they are just testing you"

    It's a test, once you pass it, you're fine, well until the next week, :)
     
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  16. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

    May 26, 2009
    Minnesota
    This is not a personal story, and it doesn't involve an ethnic league, but it does relate to language barriers, so I'm going to share it here. This is an incident that occurred in a U17 boys game, and I have been only peripherally involved with the aftermath. It's an interesting situation, and certainly an opportunity for people to learn, so I'm just going to tell the story without any judgments and let people comment...

    The referee in this story has about 5 years experience and is college-aged. His ARs were male (17) and female (16). Again, boys U17. The alignment of the fields are such that a boys U13 game is being played directly next to this game.

    Game starts, Team A coach is loudly contesting every call. About 20 minutes in, A1 yells something at A2. A2 takes offense to his teammate's comment and yells "F**k you!" across the field, audible to all. Referee sends off A2 for OFFINABUS.

    Coach A blows a gasket. Yells that cursing is not a red card. Referee tells him that he can speak about it after the game.

    Coach A continues to contest every call, finally resulting in referee using Tell. Coach A tells the referee that he doesn't have to listen to the referee because he is "just a kid." Referee dismisses Coach A. Coach A says the referee doesn't have the authority to do that, refuses to leave. Referee notifies Coach B that if Coach A does not leave the field he will abandon the match. Coach A finally leaves (short form... after several more interruptions where he refuses to move far enough away from the field. Yes, the coach was not cooperative after his dismissal.)

    1st half water break, a Hispanic Team A player (A3) approaches the referee and complains that a player from Team B cursed at him in Spanish. Referee tells A3 he does not speak Spanish. A3 proceeds to yell very loudly the Spanish word for a certain female body part. Referee shows A3 a red card for OFFINABUS. A3 and A4 (another Hispanic player) begin arguing with the referee about the send-off. Finally referee walks away to restart the game. A3 proceeds to get into a fist fight with one of his teammates on the touchline, which was squelched by the team manager (now serving as the coach).

    At halftime, Team A was heard loudly complaining about the three dismissals. The referee pulls his Law Book out of his bag, approaches the Team A bench, and begins to read Law 12 aloud to them. Upon completion A GK says aloud, "This is bulls**t!" Referee shows A GK a red card for OFFINABUS.

    No incidents in the second half.

    At this point, I have to include a side story. My first notification of this incident came from a Team B parent who was at the game, and who also is a certified referee (3 years experience). Several parents were asking his opinion of the send-offs based on their view of the incidents from the spectator side, and he admitted he was trying to explain how Law 12 and foul language should be interpreted, and admitted he was telling these parents that from as best as he could tell, the foul language they had heard had not been directed and thus this did not seem to be the proper application of Law 12.

    After the game a Team A parent crossed the field and began verbally berating the crew. There was some engagement by the crew, and they eventually tried to leave but had to cross the field past the spectator side. Upon reaching that side they were engaged by numerous Team A parents and Coach A (who had returned to the field after the game). At this point the referee finally lost his patience, turned, and cursed at the original Team A parent who had crossed the field to confront him.

    At this point, the referee's assignor (who was at the field watching the U13 game) intervened. She managed to get the referee to deal with the postgame paperwork with the Team A manager (for the ejections) while she tried to deal with Coach A. Upon completion of the paperwork, the referee attempted to talk to the assignor but was again verbally attacked by Coach A. The assignor finally got the coach to leave first.

    And that, my friends, is the story as told by the referee.

    As one might imagine, there are 2 or 3 other versions. I've seen some reports from irate parents at this game (including the one who initiated the postgame confrontation) and also a complaint that was filed by the Team B coach against the actions of the referee. As one can imagine, most of these state the referee was unprofessional and misapplied the spirit of Law 12 with regards to foul language.

    I'll leave you all to digest this story and make your comments.
     
  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I've got no issues with this one. (Though the particular volume/tone could matter.)

    Bingo. Pretty close to magic words in my mind.

    IMHO that shoudl be a conversation with the Team A Asst coach who is not in charge, not with Team B's coach.

    Good card. Player was deliberately behaving in a provocative and offensive manner in front of the referee in an effort to show him up. Bye-bye.

    Trying to figure out why there were no reds here.

    :thumbsdown: Bad, bad idea. Digging his own grave a bit here.

    I'm now off the bus. I can't get to OFFINABUS from this. Dissent, certainly. But I think it is also a lesson that how we react can be crafted by what precedes it -- he was primed to give the red.

    :( Understandable but never acceptable.

    Team B or Team A?
     
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  18. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    YHTBT

    However, you have to become temporarily deaf after you Tell the coach 'cause you know he's gonna respond.

    And once you pull out the rule book, you've lost.

    I wonder what the G16 AR thought of the whole mess. Did either AR help (or inflame) the situation or did they become catatonic with a deer-in-the-headlights stare?

    Was the assignor aware of the craziness going on next to him earlier than the end of the match?



    One of the earliest examples I recall of a send-off and protest came in a B19 match. Team B had only 7 players at kick-off. An 8th showed up and was taking his time getting from the car to the field. B1 hollers out, "g_d damn it, get your ass out here". Referee sends off B1 (foul language - "taking the lord's name in vain"), then abandons the match because team B only has 6 players on the pitch. :rolleyes:

    League ruled a replay.
     
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  19. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

    May 26, 2009
    Minnesota
    Unfortunately, the only thing I've heard is that there was a fight between teammates on Team A's sideline and A3 (who was already sent off) was one of the individuals involved. I can't say if another Team A player did something worthy of misconduct.

    That was not a misprint. The Team B coach filed the complaint against the referee.
     
  20. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the first red card greatly exceeds the admonition I have heard from many advanced referees:

    Do the least necessary.

    The other cards just follow from there.


    Options short of the send-off included a brief conversation on game etiquette :) or a caution to go with it. This is B17 after all.
     
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  21. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I agree generally with the above but not in this case. If there are children present, I feel like you must show the red card for the first language offense.

    As to the coach, I would have handled it with Tell and Dismiss here. About to the book from what it sounds like but I don't know why it was discussed with coach B.

    The second red I feel could have been avoided by simple man-management. Instead of saying I don't speak Spanish, the center could have said something along the line of "#13, I didn't hear this time but I will keep an eye and ear out for it in the future". If he persists, then you deal with it but I would try and diffuse the issue beforehand.

    The third red should never have occured because the referee should never have talked to the team at half-time there.

    My bigger question though, if the assignor was at the fields, why didn't she step in earlier?
     
  22. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    WRT Coach A, I've never tossed a coach where I didn't think to myself "Damn, I should have done that a while ago." Sounds like CR put up with plenty, and that Coach A will have a lovely date with the D&A committee. "I don't have to listen to you. You're just a kid"? See ya, pops. Way, way over the "irresponsible behavior" and "calling the game into disrepute" line for me.

    Different refs have different tolerance for language. My tolerance is pretty high. But an FU screamed across the field in a youth game is getting booked as OFFINABUS. Period. I tell them it's like school: if you want to mutter just about anything short of taunts or threats, I'll tell you to knock it off. If you scream it so the thousands of adoring fans can hear, you're forcing me to do something about it.

    And once he's gone red for one person yelling profanities, two other teammates have got to try some more? Sheesh, I know U17s can be knuckleheads, but wow.

    As far as the referee cursing at the end, I'll bet that if a referee mentor/assessor/whatever has a quiet word, the referee knows he screwed up. Give him some tools around what to do in the future when he runs into parents like that.

    Finally, a word needs to be had with the parent/referee as well. He's violating USSF conduct rules by criticising the CR during the match that way, and definitely throwing gas on the fire. The CR is El Jefe. His match, his decisions. Say something like "He had a different angle on the play, maybe it didn't look the same," or "I guess we're calling it that way today. Better adjust." as opposed to "he just tossed your darling Eggbert out of today's match and tomorrow's match. There goes Eggbert's chance at making the MNT. Tough for you," for crying out loud.
     
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  23. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire

    Yes.

    I remember a game I was lining earlier in the season. We had a very good referee in the center and it was a high level, but physical match. About 1/2 way through the first half, a parent asks me out loud (so others could hear) if this ref even knew what he was doing. I replied very quickly that he was calling a very good game.....

    Halftime comes and I look to see who the parent was; only to find it was the center referee for a game I had done yesterday. I was completely shocked by this, especially after his performance the previous day...
     
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  24. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I read that differently. The ref/parent was of the team that didn't have problems. I think it is just as likely that he was saying that he didn't agree with the interpretation, but...[insert supportive qualifier].

    As for a RC at half time. If they had been a player before the start of the break, does that reduce the number on the field in the second half or can he be replaced? In a youth unlimited substitution, how do you know if they had been a player or not?

    Based on how heated the parents side was, I'd tell my ARs that we're walking together around the goal to get to our cars. About once a season I'm at a field where parking is on either end of the field and after the game I'm not too thrilled to be the only one walking toward x end.
     
  25. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    If a player is ejected, the team plays short. A player is a player until substituted for. The substitution is not complete till the new player comes onto the field. So at half time, the players from the first half remain players until the teams come onto the field for the second.

    "Ay, there's the rub." Depending on the game and the style of subs, you might know. If you don't (such as in a game with a lot of subs going on), you're in a pickle created by the ROC. It's easy to say that you should look to see who is on the bench at the end of each half to know who is not a player, but here in the real world problems at half time after the players are off the field are not sufficiently common that it would make it high on the list of concerns. I guess where I would come out is that in an unlimited sub game, I'm not considering the person a player (thereby mkaing the team play short) unless I (or my ARs) know the person was in the game at the end of the half.
     
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