World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Why is Ronaldo's score so high at the national level?
    Is he among the top 10 players in national history? I think that is why he is fourth on your list
     
  2. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    @Dearman I see that the last update of the ranking of teams was until the 2018 World Cup. Don't you consider that Argentina has already surpassed Italy in third place?
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Let see after I finish updating the ranking. Anyway, I think they are currently in similar level.
     
  4. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Just add some major updates as below summary ;

    World All-Time Greatest Footballers : Lewandowski has made top 50 replace Fritz Walter who has been placed in honorable mention.

    Positional Hall of Fame
    Defenders : I have overhauled the bottom ranks of top 50 after my reconsideration of modern players. Now Van Dijk, Puyol and D. Alves have replaced Marzolini, Janes and Vasovic. Note that Janes has been transferred to honorable mention.
    Striker : In previous post, I rated Lewandowski at 5th but it was technical error in formula. he is now at 7th but he has a high chance to achieve 5th after the end of the first half of 2022 - 2023 season.


    International Legendary Museum

    Netherlands :
    I decide to have Van Dijk as a starter as he is more natural defender than Rijkaard. Hence, Rijkaard was upwardly moved to DM and Van Hanegem has been on Bench due to tactical reason.

    Portugal : Cancelo replaced Alvaro Cardoso in a reserved left-back.

    East Asia : Okudera has replaced Lee-Yong Pyo in all-time XI as I just found he was also a left-back. Minamino has also been included in 22-men squad.
     
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  5. Gregoire1

    Gregoire1 Member

    Dec 4, 2020

    What about GOAT and GOAT peak and prime? Its Messi now I suppose?
     
  6. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I cannot imagine what tactical reason you could possibly have to bench Hanegem, especially when he already has Rijkaard next to him
     
  7. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    ronaldo in national level: 85 (top 10)
    :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
    I don't know how his score is 80 in Word Cup
     
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  8. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Neeskens will set multi-dimensions of playing in particular of advanced role in midfield area. That's why I choose Neeskens instead of Van Hanegem who is more proficient in deeper role.
     
  9. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    A team with Cruyff, Bergkamp, Gullit, and MvB doesn't need that support, man. And I think you are severely underrating how good Hanegem was in the final third anyway.
     
  10. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    OK, Thanks for reminding me for my mistake. I admitted that his score in world cup part wasn't elaborated enough. The correct one is 77.3 and overall NT career of his is 84.1. I have to downgrade him to 5th best ever by now.
     
  11. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Van Hanegem is a more skillful player than Neeskens in overall is unquestionable but his weakness is lack of pace could be a big void of central midfield if he played alongside Rijkaard.
     
  12. old bastard

    old bastard New Member

    Dec 27, 2022
    @Dearman I've seen your blog before. I don't fully understand the criteria you used for rating the players but I can appreciate the hard work you put in there. I'm sure that WFHC inspired a lot of football fans to look into data and come up with their own rankings and lists.
     
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  13. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Recently I had one month in improving criteria and updated nation ranking for the 2022 world cup. The main changes are ;

    1) Restandardize continental tournament performance by setting standard value. For example, if average of Euro 1996 performance rating were 3.00, any South American, African or Asian Nations who get lower than 3.00 point in the same, previous or next year of tournament would not be rated.

    2) Qualfiication : I abolish rating from World Cup performance downward to qualification round as the team may have absolute different condition. In this time, I just set qualification round coefficient and rate teams based on round they reached.

    World Football Historic Center: The Country Evaluation Result (xtrahistory.blogspot.com)
    World Football Historic Center: Historical Ranking of Football Nations (xtrahistory.blogspot.com)

    For Argentina Versus Italy in all-time ranking, my research shows Italy is ahead of Argentina but the margin is too narrow and I can't draw a conclusion which one is better. They are in the same level. The result shows Argentina is ahead of Italy in Basic total score + world cup trophy bonus but when applied aggregate peak (Peak rating for World Cup and Continental tournament) into calculation, Italy has been turned around to be ahead of Argentina. Note that World ranking is not applied bonus for Euro and Copa Americas because it is designated for world champion standard only. If applied Euro or Copa Americas bonus to both, Italy would remain get higher rating as well.

    As continental ranking in which is applied Continental tournament trophy bonus, some ranks are different from the world ranking. For Example, Nigeria is ahead of Cameroon in World ranking but Cameroon who won African cup of nations more, get 1st place in Africa list.
     
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  14. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
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  15. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Dearman, good work but I'd have to question the following with respect to Messi & CR7:

    The Most World-Class Year Performers

    1. Franz Beckenbauer : 12 Years (1966 - 1977)
    2. Pele : 10 Years (1958 - 1965, 1967 - 1969, 1973)
    3. Alfredo DI Stefano : 10 Years (1947, 1949 - 1951, 1954 - 1959)
    4. Lionel Messi : 9 years (2008 - 2016)
    5. Diego Maradona : 9 Years (1979 - 1981,1984 - 1989)
    6. Johan Cruyff : 9 Years (1967 - 1974, 1977)
    7. Ferenc Puskas : 9 Years (1947 - 1951, 1953 - 1954,1960 - 1961)
    8. Michel Platini : 9 Years (1976 - 1978, 1981 - 1986)
    9. Cristano Ronaldo 9 Years (2007,2008, 2010 - 2016)
    10. Zico : 8 Years (1976 - 1977, 1979 - 1984)
    11. Zinedine Zidane : 8 Years (1997 - 1998, 1999 - 2004)


    The Most Consecutive World-Class Year Performers

    1. Franz Beckenbauer : 12 Years (1966 - 1977)
    2. Pele : 8 Years (1958 - 1965)
    3. Johan Cruyff : 8 Years (1967 - 1974)
    4. Lionel Messi : 8 years (2008 - 2015)
    5. Diego Maradona : 7 Years (1983 - 1989)
    6. Cristano Ronaldo 7 Years (2010 - 2016)
    7. Alfredo DI Stefano : 6 Years (1954 - 1959)
    8. Michel Platini : 6 Years (1981 - 1986)
    9. Zico : 6 Years (1979 - 1984)
    10. Zinedine Zidane : 6 Years (1999 - 2004)

    There has to be some nostalgic factor involved here because they have been world class (which, by definition, means they were one of the best in the world) since at least 2007 to 2022. They may not have had their best years in certain periods, like 2009 for Ronaldo, but even then it is simply incorrect to state he was not world-class. The only other player in 2009 that anyone would take over CR7 was Messi. He also was fulcrum to Real Madrid winning the Champions League in 2017 and 2018 so I'm not sure how that can be excluded.

    The two were so far ahead of their peers for a 15 year period they fit the definition of world-class far better than any other player during their careers and as a result, even transcend it to a degree. Those two have largely been noted specifically for not only their high peaks but their longevity.

    Also, may I ask why the switch in the all-time ranking between CR7 & Cruyff?
     
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  16. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Messi was definitely a "World Class" at least until 2019

    [​IMG]


    and he won the Ballon d'Or 2021, and will probably win the 2023, that definitely falls under the concept of "world class player", It's literally an award for the best player in the world.
     
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Dearman ‘awarded’ Messi with that ballon dor so for sure he considers him to be world class

    That list referenced by Benfica just hasn’t been updated
    There’s no issue there(maybe he is busy or just forgot)
     
  18. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    It is updated; Dearman counts Ronaldo as world-class in 2008 and 2010 but not 2009, per the above. That’s what I am referring to.
     
  19. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    Messi has been a world-class player from 2007 to the present. Perhaps the only weak season was 2021-22. And I honestly don't know why Dearman says it was until 2016, if he has him on the podium during 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021. On the other hand, Beckenbauer has not been on the podium during 1967, 1968, 1969 and 1970...and yet he is classified as a world class player. Perhaps that aspect is not directly proportional, but it is a clear reference.
     
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  20. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    This is correct.

    Also Dearman, I would like to hear your reasoning for switching CR7 and Cruyff's position - You had CR7 as the best European player of all time and I'm really not sure why you would alter that. He has captained his country to the only title they ever had (a European Championship, while Cruyff won 0 titles with Netherlands) and CR7 will very likely end his career as the top scorer and assist-maker in the most difficult competition of all time (Champions League) during a period that was shared with who you consider the best player of all time (Messi). So CR7 outperformed the best player of all time in the most difficult competition of all time and Cruyff is better? Not logical at all.

    On top of that, Cruyff won 3 European Cups. Ronaldo won 5, during a period where it was more difficult to win. The modern Champions League is the only competition in all history that allows all players with talent throughout the world to openly complete without any obstacles. It is why the tournament was so difficult to win two times in a row; that is until Ronaldo led his club to three wins in a row.

    I'm sorry but there is no argument that can be made that Cruyff was better and I really hope you have not fallen prey to the negative media clout with CR7 as of late because that can be the only explanation.
     
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  21. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Where is Ronaldo in the World Cup and Euro?
    Super team merchant
    He wasn't even the best Portuguese player in Euro 2016 and had only 2 good games out of 7
    You can't fool anyone with trophies and statistics
    Ronaldo should even be lower than 5..
    5 is too much for him!
     
  22. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    #1522 benficafan3, Feb 20, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
    Ronaldo was Portugal's best player against France when they got to the World Cup semi-finals in 2006 - actually, he was the best player on the field. Fortunately this was recent enough where there still exists data to say as much.

    Here you go:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/jul/06/worldcup2006.sport3

    I'll re-write that because you clearly don't know what the ******** you're talking about and have no knowledge on the matter - in the most important World Cup game in Portugal's history, Ronaldo was by far the best player for Portugal. In the link there's only one other player on the field who comes close to him in ratings - Zidane, one of the most clutch players in national tournament history.

    Portugal has made 2 finals in their entire history and both times it was from a preceding semi-final where Ronaldo gave Portugal the all-important lead - 2004 and 2016.

    In the latter tournament, Portugal would have gone out in the group stage if not for Ronaldo's 2 goals against Hungary.

    Ronaldo single-handedly got Portugal through the group stage in 2018.

    Portugal relied entirely on Ronaldo to even qualify to the World Cup in 2014 - a tournament he played with a known knee injury, by scoring all 4 goals against Ibrahimovic's Sweden in play-offs, including an away hat-trick.

    When Portugal went head-to-head against Spain 2012 in the Euro semi-final, arguably the best national team of all time, it was because of Ronaldo single-handedly taking Portugal there via heroics vs. Netherlands and the Czech Republic.

    I could go on but first I'd ask you to please try ********ing harder you unknowledgeable hater.

    And know that I have been on this website nearly 20 years and have never been one to name-call but damn do you deserve it - you speak with such confidence about things you don't know you deserve to be called exactly what it is you are - a dumbass.
     
  23. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Super team merchant... go take a look at where Manchester United and Real Madrid were before he joined them in 2003 and 2009, respectively.

    Hint: Far from where he took them - to the summit of Europe. And he did it with the latter 4 times.

    Real Madrid couldn't even get passed the Round of 16 for years before him... Do you know anything about this sport? Is the date you joined this website the day you first found out about football? Must be - even then, your learning curve is terrible.
     
  24. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I agree for 2009 that CR7 should have been rated in world-class. Messi in 2007 has also been added. Both are tied together in the list.

    Some players were reranked as being impacted by criteria adjustment of counting lower state performance into calculation in higher proportion. However, it seems the criteria has never been settled as the complexity of factors.
     
  25. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    Great job and another great perspective to compare footballers

    [​IMG]
     
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