World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1351 carlito86, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    Ratings from goal.com?

    Minimum whoscored rating of 8.5 is required for SW
    Your words
    He was rated 8.82 after 5 matches
    Clear as day

    But now goal.com says different

    Double standards have now been thoroughly exposed

    Edit
    This is actually so ridiculous
    I Just read your link and Im quoting verbatim

    "Unplayable in the first half at times, the influence of ‘CR9’ waned after the break. Showcased some outrageous touches and was not aided by his team-mates, who ironically chose to shoot with the Portuguese better placed on at least two occasions.
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/c...ngs-real-madrid-11-olympique-lyonnais-agg-1-2
    Do you read your sources or just see 7 and think this reinforces your preconceived biases
    This 7/10 rating for the 2nd leg vs lyon is his worst CL performance that season
    And at his worst he is still unplayable

    R9 in the 96/97 cup winners cup with blanks against red star Belgrade,Fiorentina and 0 open play goals vs PSG

    But he scores 5 goals against some random teams from Transylvania and he is SW


    CR destroyed ligue 1 champions Marseille in 09/10
    Like totally

    3 non pen goals+3 assists in 2 matches vs them
    A great goal vs Lyon+great performance
    2 freekicks in 1 match vs Zurich
    Carried Madrid till the R16 but his team did not help him
    Higuain consistently a great league scorer forgot to bring his shooting boots to the champions league
    He had 27 league goals in 09/10
    But only 2 in 7 CL games in 09/10



    Don't take my word
    Take your source goal.com
    '....was not aided by his team-mates, who ironically chose to shoot with the Portuguese better placed on at least two occasions.
     
    RamyBt repped this.
  2. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Modern era is weaker for number of qualified stars but not for average of all players that have been improved.

    I certainly can make my own list as evidence because the list of world positional ranking of the era is also applied ratings from media and based on standard of minimum requirement of number of qualified seasons, number of qualified players in modern era is less than most of others significantly although already consider the margin of inaccuracy in some of the lists.
     
  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1353 carlito86, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    Cristiano Ronaldo – 8.5: Back to his energetic best after returning from injury. Scored from a trademark free kick, saw a header cannon back off the post, had an excellent and unselfish collaboration with the rest of his team-mates, could have had a couple of assists, but eventually bagged two goals on the night.
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/c...5026/player-ratings-marseille-1-3-real-madrid

    Cristiano Ronaldo – 8: Confident and brash as always, he was involved in an individual battle with goalkeeper Mandanda in the first half, but in the second his two finishes were clinical, and also won the spot kick which Kaka converted. Another sublime showing.
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/c...2893/player-ratings-real-madrid-3-0-marseille


    Gonzalo Higuain - 5.5: The Argentine should have had a double after missing two clear chances in front of goal.
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/c...5026/player-ratings-marseille-1-3-real-madrid


    Higuain – 6.5: Lacked the pace to latch on to a number of through balls from midfield. Other than a shot that was smothered by Mandanda in the first half from a corner, he didn’t have too many chances.
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/c...2893/player-ratings-real-madrid-3-0-marseille

    CR played 6 games (5 starts)
    Had 7 non penalty goals+3 assists out of 13 team goals=carried Madrid
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/crist...daten/spieler/8198/saison/2009/wettbewerb/ES1

    I would continue but it's futile

    The inconsistencies is what's unfortunate
    How R9 96/97 could conceivably be SW in the cup winners cup

    Could conceivably be a better international club performer as RVN,andriy shevchenco,etoo

    How CR only qualifies as SW for half of 07/08
    When?
    How?
    He was elite from beginning till end
    This is known

    How maradona is now rated a phenomenon half of 82/83
    When he had the 5th highest rating in la liga 1982/83
    (Will provide the source when i can find it)
     
    RamyBt repped this.
  4. Serpico

    Serpico New Member

    May 18, 2020
    The 78 season for example. He had an amazing season for being in a such weak team like Argentinos. That season has to be a "Supreme world class" at least, if not a "Phenomenon class". And the 88 season can be a "Phenomenal class" too.
     
  5. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Agreed. Maradona in 1978 is rated by El Grafico at 7.16 should be enough for supreme-world class. For 1988, He made outstanding goals + assists but based on rating in dbscalcio is just slightly more than 6.5, should not be phenomenal. Further evidence needs to upgrade his class in 1988.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This is something I agree with :thumbsup:

    Also: this 'much greater mentality' has resulted in just three European Cup winners: Suarez, Santamaria and Caceres, of which only the first two were starters.

    For the old UEFA Cup we have only one winning starter: Ruben Sosa in 1994, with others like Recoba in 1998 and Chevanton in 1997 as bench players.

    In terms of national team performances: look at the Elo rating...
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah let's rely on flawed and censored dictatorship sources, good plan :thumbsup:In truth, Maradona had hardly any goal or assist against an elite team until 1982, at international level for club and country in a free role (club friendlies included). He got it really going around the mid-1980s.
     
  8. Serpico

    Serpico New Member

    May 18, 2020
    Ok. And I see that you gave him half of the 79 season in the phenomenal class category, I agree with that. But I can't see the other half of 79 in any class category. Where is it?
    The dictatorship censored a lot of things, but the dictatorship was not going to waste time on the score given to an 18-year-old player in a football magazine...
     
  9. Serpico

    Serpico New Member

    May 18, 2020
    #1359 Serpico, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    Dearman, I also think that you have to research more in Pelé's 1958 domestic season. "Supreme world class" is maybe too much for that very weak Campeonato Paulista with very weak teams, "ordinary world class" maybe suits best for him in that domestic season. His "supreme world class" at the 1958 World Cup is rightly deserved, but that's another story.
    Also, his 1969 "supreme world class" domestic season seems too much, giving him "ordinary world class" is more accurate in that season.
     
  10. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1360 carlito86, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    Which half of 2007/08 Was he supreme world class performer ?
    Which half was he ordinary world class?

    2 ESM team of the month selections from August to December 2007
    5 ESM team of the month selections from January to may 2008
    https://www.erubik.xyz/esm/player.php?id=Cristiano_Ronaldo

    Inconsistencies
    Thierry Henry 2003/04(ranked Supreme world class for entire season)

    1 ESM team of the month ranking from August to December 2003
    4 ESM team of the month ranking from January to may
    https://www.erubik.xyz/esm/player.php?id=Thierry_Henry

    Henry is supreme world class for all of 2003/04 domestic
    CR is supreme world class for half of 2007/08 domestic

    A joke or badly researched



    R9 cup winners cup 1996/97
    Phenomenon:laugh:
    Messi 2009/10 CL is OW
    4 goals in a single match against a periodic top 4 side arsenal
    The English premier league
    was still the Elo top ranked league in the world
    Phenomenon Maradona from 1978 to 1985 never had even 1 performance like this.
    Not even one

    CR 2009/10 CL groupstage is OW
    Open play goals and assists against league champions of France
    4 MOTM awards in 5 starts
    8.82 WS rating for the Groupstage

    Rinse and repeat

    Inconsistencies part 3
    Van basten with 10 goals+2 assists in EC 88/89 is a phenomenon
    Kaka with 10 goals+5 assists in CL 06/07 is only SW
    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-greatest-individual-performer-in.html?m=1

    Milan scored 18 goals in the 2006/07 CL
    Milan scored 21 goals in the 1988/89 EC
    Milan 88/89 conceded only 5 goals in the EC
    Milan 06/07 conceded 10 goals in the CL

    Kaka was statistically and proportionally involved in more goals than van basten

    Playing for a team that conceded twice as many goals
    Kaka played from a deeper position
    Was their main goal outlet and creative outlet simultaneously
    Was a MUCH better ball carrier
    Most likely dribbled more as van basten
    Provided more open play assists
    Scored more spectacular solo goals

    Era I started watching football in >current era

    Van basten 88/89 EC>Kaka 06/07 EC

    Pre 2006 world cup players are inflated
    Post 2006 world cup players are systematically underrated




    Pipiolo will say this is a remarkable list as long as you continue to inflate Maradona

    Pipiolo/serpico would make a deal with the devil as long as he has a good word to say about Maradona
    download.jpeg
     
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  11. Serpico

    Serpico New Member

    May 18, 2020
    Can you explain who is Pipiolo? I don't understand the joke, sorry mate. By the way, if you want to know, for me the first place to Messi is well deserved. He has maintained his high level more than Maradona and more than any other player. I was analyzing 2 seasons of Pelé in the weak Campeonato Paulista of 1958. Or now you think that the Campeonato Paulista of 1958 had a higher level than the 1980's Serie A? Because you have a strange way to rate the players.
    Do you want to raise Cristiano Ronaldo from 5th place to 2nd place also? I'm sure that you want it.
     
  12. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I found I was confused with Argentina Primera division format of competition. In 1980, the number of league games are 50 games and I thought 1979 should be the same but it is actually only 32 games. So I misunderstood Maradona participated in 1979 just a half of season. Now I will increase actual amount if his performance.

    Pele in 1958 is by far the highest scoring production in history of Campeonato Paulista although He seems to in initial phase to develop his vision and passing skill at that year.
     
  13. Serpico

    Serpico New Member

    May 18, 2020
    #1363 Serpico, May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Ok, maybe I was confused because I read that Tom Stevens and Once rated him like 4th-5th player of the year in 1958 and 1969 and I think that it was because of the not so high level of the league in that years (specially in 1958, not in 1969). My fault.
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Actually they did. They did remove editors from football magazines, sent out guidelines, and football was an excellent means to keep the masses happy. Panem et Circenses... Serpen... uhmmm Serpico.
     
  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1365 carlito86, May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    @Dearman
    You increased his 2009/10 la liga performance from ordinary world class to supreme world class on the basis that the 2nd half was rated 8.5

    That is false

    In the 2nd half of 2009/10 la liga he was rated 8.9 during his last 18 matches
    That is phenomenonal by any stretch of definition
    These are performances in the business end of the season=more weight should be attached

    CR played 29 league matches in la liga 2009/10
    Match ratings are below
    Please read attentively

    Will split the match ratings into 2 sections

    first semester (0.5)
    August 2009-january 2010
    Played :12 league matches
    Missed 8 through injury/suspension



    Second semester(0.5)
    February 2010-may 2010
    (Play 17 league matches and missed 1)



    First semester

    Match day 1
    Date:29th August 2009
    Real Madrid 3-2 malaga
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/955779
    Man of the match:Cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:8.80


    Match day 2
    Date:September 12th 2009
    Espanyol 0-3 real Madrid
    Whoscored rating:7.58
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/334978/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Espanyol-Real-Madrid

    Match day 3
    19th September 2009
    Real Madrid 5-0 xerez
    Man of the match:cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:9.26

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/334991/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Xerez


    Match day 4
    23rd September 2009
    Villarreal 0-2 real Madrid
    Man of the match:Cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:8.84
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Villarreal-Real-Madrid


    Match day 5
    26th September
    Real Madrid 3-0Tenerife
    Whoscored rating:7.71
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335030/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Tenerife

    Match day 6
    4th October 2009
    Seville 2-1 real Madrid
    Not in squad(injured)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335045/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Sevilla-Real-Madrid

    Match day 7
    17 October 2009
    Real Madrid 4-2 real Valladolid
    Not in squad(injured)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Real-Valladolid

    Match day 8
    24 October 2009
    Sporting gijon 0-0 real Madrid
    Not in squad(injured)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...n-LaLiga-2009-2010-Sporting-Gijon-Real-Madrid

    Match day 9
    Real Madrid 2-0 getafe
    31st October
    Not in squad (injured)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335095/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Getafe

    Match day 10
    Atletico Madrid 2-3 real Madrid
    7th November 2009
    Not in squad (injured)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...-LaLiga-2009-2010-Atletico-Madrid-Real-Madrid

    Match day 11
    21st November
    Real Madrid 1-0 racing santander
    Not in squad (injured)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Racing-Santander

    Match day 12 (1st match back from injury)
    29th November
    Barcelona 1-0 real Madrid
    Whoscored rating:6.81

    Match day 13
    5th December 2009
    Real Madrid 4-2 almeria
    Man of the match:cristiano Ronaldo
    Red card suspension
    Whoscored rating:9.18
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335158/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Almeria

    Match day 14
    Valencia 2-3 real Madrid
    Not in squad(red card suspension)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335169/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Valencia-Real-Madrid


    Match day 15
    Real Madrid 6-0 real zaragoza
    Whoscored rating:9.32
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...in-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Real-Zaragoza

    Match day 16
    3rd january 2010
    Osasuna 0-0 real Madrid
    Whoscored rating:6.74
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335210/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Osasuna-Real-Madrid

    Match day 17
    10th January
    Real Madrid 2-0 mallorca
    Whoscored rating:7.08
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335226/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Mallorca


    Match day 18
    Athletic bilbao 1-0 real Madrid
    Whoscored rating:6.64
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...-LaLiga-2009-2010-Athletic-Bilbao-Real-Madrid

    Match day 19
    Real Madrid 2-0 Malaga
    Whoscored rating:7.70
    Red card
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335263/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Malaga


    Match day 20
    30th January
    Real Madrid 3-1 deportivo
    Player Suspended
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335267/Live/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Deportivo-La-Coruna-Real-Madrid

    1st semester average whoscored rating:
    8.0
    =ordinary world class

    I agree but this requires further elaboration


    CR was acclimatising to a new league whilst being brutalized by Spanish defenders
    He was the most fouled player in the world during 2009/10

    C.Ronaldo was fouled 3.43 times per 90 in his debut season(94 times in 28 starts)
    https://nesn.com/2011/12/lionel-messi-vs-cristiano-ronaldo-who-do-rival-defenders-foul-more/

    Rather then take it in his stride he did often lash out at defenders and also referees for not doing what he believed was their job (protecting him)
    In the first semester c.Ronaldo ranged from the utterly brilliant to petulant




    Interval

    Now This is where CR goes GOAT mode



    This is the context:
    "Madrid won 18 of their last 19 games going into the final day.
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/may/25/the-sids-2010-la-liga-awards



    Second semester

    Match day 21
    Real Madrid 3-0 espanyol
    Not in squad

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335289/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Espanyol

    Match day 22
    Real Madrid 3-0 xerez
    Man of the match:Cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating :10
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335306/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Xerez-Real-Madrid

    Match day 23
    Real Madrid 6-2 Villarreal
    Man of the match:Cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:10
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335326/Live/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Villarreal

    Match day 24
    Real Madrid 5-1 Tenerife
    Whoscored rating:8.23
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335355/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Tenerife-Real-Madrid

    Match day 25
    Real Madrid 3-2 seville
    Man of the match:cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:9.35
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335381/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Sevilla


    Match day 26
    Real Valladolid 1-4 Real Madrid
    Whoscored rating:9.46
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Valladolid-Real-Madrid

    Match day 27
    Real Madrid 3-1 sporting gijon
    Whoscored rating:7.85
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...n-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Sporting-Gijon

    Match day 28
    Getafe 2-4 Real Madrid
    Man of the match:Cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:9.64
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335437/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Getafe-Real-Madrid


    Match day 29
    Real Madrid 3-2 Atletico Madrid
    Whoscored rating:7.52
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid


    Match day 30
    Racing santander 0-2 REAL Madrid
    Man of the match:Cristiano ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:9.0
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...LaLiga-2009-2010-Racing-Santander-Real-Madrid

    Match day 31
    Real Madrid 0-2 Barcelona
    Whoscored rating:7.36
    Highest rated real Madrid player
    CR also completed 6 dribbles compared to Messi's 1
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335486/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Barcelona


    He also completed considerably more dribbles than SW Maradona did in the 88/89 UEFA cup against either one of Juventus or bayern Munich
    https://statsbomb.com/2020/04/decoding-diego-maradona-by-the-numbers/


    Back on track

    Match day 32
    Almeria 1-2 Real Madrid
    Whoscored rating:9.36
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335501/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Almeria-Real-Madrid


    Match day 33
    Real zaragoza 1-2 real Madrid
    Man of the match:cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:9.12
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...in-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Zaragoza-Real-Madrid

    Match day 34
    Real Madrid 3-2 osasuna
    Man of the match:cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:10
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335546/Live/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Osasuna


    Match day 35
    Mallorca 1-4 Real Madrid
    Man of the match:cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:10
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335561/Live/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Mallorca-Real-Madrid


    Match day 36
    Real Madrid 5-1 bilbao
    Man of the match:cristiano Ronaldo
    Whoscored rating:9.1
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335574/Live/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Athletic-Bilbao

    Match day 37
    Real Madrid 1-1 Malaga
    Whoscored rating:6.74
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335585/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Malaga-Real-Madrid

    Average whoscored rating for 2nd semester(played 17 out of a possible 18 matches):
    8.9


    That is phenomenonal
    This is the 2nd half of a top tier domestic league season
    The business half where teams are performing out of their skins to stay above the relegation zone,fighting for European spots or challenging for the league
    His match ratings under those circumstances shouldn't be possible


    You should rate him a phenomenon for half la liga 2009/10

    I repeat
    8.9 la liga average Whoscored rating

    That is directly in line with Messis highest peak seasons

    Messi had a average whoscored rating of 8.88 in la liga 2011/12
    Granted Messi 11/12 played more league games
    Twice as more
    And he did it multiple times across at least 3-4 entire seasons
    However That shouldn't detract from Cristiano who was in the 2nd half of la liga 2009/10 performing at the level of a top 3 all timer

    C.Ronaldo should be given a 0.5 phenomenon class rating for la liga 2009/10



    The first half should remain 0W
    Reasons are already given

    Edit:
    You don't have to look for goal.com
    The overview is here
    "Cristiano ronaldo single-handedly carried Madrid's title charge all the way to the final day of the season with a string of inspirational performances and crucial goals"
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/e...om-special-la-liga-team-of-the-season-2009-10

     
  16. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Cristiano Ronaldo scored only 17 goals in second half 2009 - 2010 season, a top scorer of Real Madrid in the period but just score more 1 goal than Huguain. How many assists he made in second half ? In the entire season, he made on seven. When he was not a specialist of creativity and passer, how would he be deserved phenomenal ? How to interpret Whoscored rating ? Finally Whoscored is one of references and should not be the entire evidence to refer. I said 8.5 is minimum requirement for supreme-world-class if it has been verified its reliability.
     
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1367 carlito86, May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    He made 9 wide assists in his last 17 league matches
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/crist...daten/spieler/8198/saison/2009/wettbewerb/ES1
    That is more assists than your beloved Maradona had in the ENTIRE 1984/85 serie A

    Just research dude
    Something you haven't done probably for 95% of post 2006 WC players

    Ronaldo scored just 1 more than Higuain
    :thumbsdown:
    Is that constructive criticism or an irrelevant outburst?


    Firstly
    CR 09/10 was not even a CF
    He in fact averaged the most key passes in la liga 09/10 after prime Xavi Hernandez


    Covered the most distance by any player in la liga

    "In Ronaldo’s first season in La Liga, he covered 385 yards with the ball at his feet per 90 minutes
    When he came to Spain, nobody ran with the ball more than Ronaldo"
    https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-evolution-of-cristiano-ronaldo-real-madrid-manchester-united/

    Was its most fouled player(3.43 per 90)

    Was one of the top dribblers in the league
    Was the best FK taker in the league maybe even Europe at that time

    And.......scored 26 league goals in 29 appearances

    17 goals+9 wide assists in his last 17 league matches




    2.)gonzalo Higuain scored more league goals in single Serie A season Than

    Giuseppe meazza
    Luigi riva
    Gunner Nordhal
    Marco van basten
    Ronaldo nazario
    Andriy shevchenco
    Gabriel batistuta
    Zlatan ibrahimovic
    All without exception were in Serie A during their prime


    Does that register in your brain
    Its utterly pointless discussing with you

    Multiple times on just these 2 pages alone youve proven yourself to be a dishonest analyst
    Flipping flopping from whoscored to goal.com
    To now irrelevant rants and questions that have already been answered multiple times

    Have a good day sir:thumbsup:
     
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  18. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    #1368 Dearman, May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Well, I refer to scoring record of CR7 just more than Higuain 1 goal indicates something he did not make significant contribution compared to other seasons he made a lot more scores.I don't mean CR7 is just slightly better than Higuain but he could be expected score more goals than Higuain although he was not pure striker. As wing-forward, his main contribution is still scoring not playmaking or assisting. So, regardless of position he played, scoring number is the first aspect of performance he would have been expected to achieve.

    I did not mention goal.com is always true but it shows other perspective of performance than whoscored which is only based on quantitative analysis as I said many times. You provide a great stats is very beneficial to analyze and has contributed to improve rating in my work is several points but should not extremely rely on stats of goals and assist and your perspective on football should be more visualized than only analyzed on paper.

    Finally, I also think the discussion with you had long been saturated point for now as I never receive the great explanation how whoscored is deserved as a universal rating ? So further discussion seems to be in similar trend of logic.
     
  19. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    This is him at his best

    The Madrid press were comparing him to Alfredo di Stefano after this

    Marca and AS headlined this performance as simply:
    GOD

    "One day, he'll win the ball, cross it in and head it home himself," claimed El Mundo

    El País's headline simply called Him a "colossus."

    ".... As well as shooting, taking the free-kicks, building the plays and giving passes, Cristiano Ronaldo is also the one that folds up the shirts, cleans the boots and cuts the grass. The only thing left for him to do is man the ticket office," wrote Roberto Palomar in Marca

    El Mundo, wrote: "the orchestra man, capable of doing everything a player can do in attack."
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/feb/22/cristiano-ronaldo-real-madrid-villarreal
     
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  20. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    What does this even mean? Exactly what piece of media made you decide this was a weak era? When did this weak era begin? And what is a qualified star?
     
  21. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    All information and rating evidences related footballer performance will identify number of qualified seasons/tournaments for players. At least 3.5 qualified seasons are required to be listed in https://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2012/12/Era-Ranking.html.
    Surely it is not always accurate but the results show significant different between modern era (2nd half 2000s to Present)
    If any overrated players or missing players are identified, I'm welcome.


    Statistics (Number of Qualified Players in each era)

    1892 to 1900s : 18
    1st Half 1910s : 18
    2nd Half 1910s : 24
    1st Half 1920s : 36
    2nd Half 1920s : 54
    1st Half 1930s : 57
    2nd Half 1930s : 56
    1st Half 1940s : 28
    2nd Half 1940s : 53
    1st Half 1950s : 70
    2nd Half 1950s : 73
    1st Half 1960s : 75
    2nd Half 1960s : 76
    1st Half 1970s : 83
    2nd Half 1970s : 83
    1st Half 1980s : 70
    2nd Half 1980s : 65
    1st Half 1990s : 69
    2nd Half 1990s : 68
    1st Half 2000s : 57
    2nd Half 2000s : 47
    1st Half 2010s : 46
    2nd Half 2010s : 46
     
  22. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1372 carlito86, May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Here are some additional stats
    Stats pertaining to his creative abilities during his actual prime

    Last 18 matches of la liga 2009/10
    Missed:1
    Appearances:17
    Goals:17
    Assists:9(wide)
    10 MOTM awards
    40 key passes(2.4 KP per match)
    55 dribbles(3.2 per match)
    59 times fouled(3.47 per match)
    1107 touches on the ball
    Avg 65 touches on the ball per match
    678 passes(1 match missing)
    42 passes avg per matches
    78% pass accuracy


    Peaking also with 90+touches on the ball vs athletic bilbao
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/3...-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Athletic-Bilbao

    This isn't just mindless running with the ball as WF Mohammed salah
    https://ronaldo.com/football-news/analysis-hazard-versus-salah/


    C.Ronaldo was the chief final third creator of real Madrids attack
    If we say Rafael van der vaart and Guti were the midfield playmakers who made things tick in the middle of the park
    Then Ronaldo was the guy that almost every attack ran through in the final third

    He was an also elite ball carrier
    Again these are facts not mere speculation

    "In Ronaldo’s first season in La Liga, he covered 385 yards with the ball at his feet per 90 minutes.
    When he came to Spain, nobody ran with the ball more than Ronaldo"
    https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-evolution-of-cristiano-ronaldo-real-madrid-manchester-united/

    Ronaldo 09/10 was between
    Salah WF(28 passes per match)

    And arjen robben 14/15
    Hazard 18/19
    (50 passes per match)
    As a hybrid playmaker
    https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/arjen-robben-progress-report-under-pep-guardiola


    A lateral winger/forward who is positioned on the RW but roams anywhere in the opposition half
    Taking 7 shots on goal per match(over 4 from out the box)
    Running with the ball more than anyone in la liga
    Being fouled more than anyone in la liga
    Dribbling more than anyone in la liga (except Messi )
    Building plays
    Assists,pre assists key passes

    He did ALL of that
    And scored one more goal than Higuain
    Gonzalo Higuain who scored more goals in a single league season Than anybody in Italian football history

    On my recommendation you upgraded Messi 09/10 to phenomenon for half the season

    In his last 17 matches of la liga 2009/10 he scored
    19 goals+5 assists
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/lionel-messi/leistungsdaten/spieler/28003/saison/2009/wettbewerb/ES1
    C.Ronaldo was in one of the very few instances of his career a slightly more productive and superior all round player to Messi in the 2nd half of la liga 2009/10
    Messi had more consistency to his performances that's it

    CR had 6 weeks injury
    2 red cards
    The highs of Messi 09/10 in la liga were phenomenal as were CRs

    Both>R9 96/97 1awho was just a dribbler and finisher


    Maradona 88/89 Was the playmaker behind careca and Carnevale charged with building the plays and driving forward napolis attack from a midfield position


    Maradona 88/89 Was outscored by careca in the UEFA cup

    Maradona 88/89 Was outdribbled by careca in the UEFA cup
    https://statsbomb.com/2020/04/decoding-diego-maradona-by-the-numbers/

    Carnavale also outscored and outdribbled Maradona

    Maradona bonus:SW

    Careca wasn't even in the top 25 Brazilian dribblers of all time
    Maybe not even 50
    Carnavale.....
     
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  23. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1373 carlito86, May 24, 2020
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
    @Dearman
    For the 2006 World cup qualification you rated CR as supreme international class
    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Competition-Level.html?m=1

    He had as a orthodox winger:
    7 open play goals+ 7 assists+ 2 pre assists in 12 matches
    out of 35 team goals:46% direct involvement

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/cristiano-ronaldo/nationalmannschaft/spieler/8198/verein_id/3300/plus/0?hauptwettbewerb=WMQ&wettbewerb_id=&trainer_id=&start=Aug+20,+2003&ende=May+24,+2020&nurEinsatz=0
    Was only 19-20 years old


    Pre assist 1

    5:55

    Pre assist 2

    0:18

    There is also a great cross assist here that transfermarket did not credit him with in a 2-1 win against Liechtenstein

    0:42

    He had a direct hand in 16 goals in 12 matches as a 19-20 year old winger
    Scored some great goals,assists,great wing play,involvement in build up

    What is required for a 19 year old winger across 12 matches To achieve OW?

    You gave zidane a OW rating for the 2006 WCQ

    In 4 matches against
    faroe islands
    Ireland
    Switzerland
    Cyprus
    France scored 9 goals
    Zidane only made 1 goal+1 assist(vs Cyprus)
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/zinedine-zidane/nationalmannschaft/spieler/3111/verein_id/3377/plus/0?hauptwettbewerb=WMQ&wettbewerb_id=&trainer_id=&start=Aug+17,+1994&ende=Jul+9,+2006&nurEinsatz=0#subnavi

    CR(2005) and zinedine Zidane (2005) were both midfielders
    Cristiano ronaldo was at this stage of his career in fact a wide midfielder in a 4-4-2 (for club) or 4-2-3-1 for NT
    5759d3b9b199f.jpg

    485812_France.jpg
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  25. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    I'll make comments on players one day after I've finished my own research.

    But if you come up with results like that, don't you suspect it might be because of a flaw in the system? What makes you determine who makes it into this ambiguous "international class" ranking? I'm sure the 70s is going to look like a golden era when you have a complete open door policy. Frickin' Norberto Alonso got in twice. :D

    In general, the modern era is always going to seem weaker, because a player's status is quite often determined after their retirement.
     
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