World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    In international legendary museum, It is time to name Son Heung-Min in 22-med East Asian squad. I remove Kzuyoshi Miura as he is one of the most overrated players ever. His career at Genoa proved how the gap between Italian Series A and J-League. I believe he never achieved any international-class through his career.
     
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  2. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
  3. Zidomnia

    Zidomnia New Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Jul 21, 2019
    Hi, Dearman.
    I've read your positional hall of fame.
    I've many (Hypothetical) corrections:

    Greaves was a forward not a striker (I've seen him in WC 1962 and others matches);
    Law was a 'trequartista' not a striker;
    Messi is a 'trequartista' since 09/10 season not a forward;
    Di Stefano was a center forward until 1953 and then a 'trequartista' not a forward;
    Cruijff was a 'trequartista';
    Meazza was a center forward in club and since 1933 a 'trequartista' in National team;
    Moreno and Zizinho were central midfielder with a mix of quality included scoring, marking and playmaking in the DIAGONAL, two modern n.8, such as Charlton in the best of his career since 1965 and such as Suarez Luisito.
    Iniesta was a central midfielder.
    Schiaffino became a central midfielder in Milan.
    Liedholm was a central midfielder and then a defensive midfielder.
    Pirlo was a defensive midfielder not offensive.
    Ronaldinho was a 'trequartista'.
    Vukas was a 'trequartista'
    Hazard is a trequartista
    Boniperti was a center-forward and then a trequartista
    Sanchez Alexis is a forward
    Orsi was left-side-forward in italian metodo, MORE a forward than a winger
    Sarosi, Sindelar, Braine and Albert (such as Pedernera and Hidegkuti) were 'trequartista' in accord to the withdrawn-center forward role of the Danubian way of playing.
    Ademir in Brazil 1950 played in the same way;
    Scarone was a 'trequartista' such as Totti;
    Zsengeller was a striker, such as many inside-forwards of the Danubian metodo;
    Luis Suarez is a striker;
    Ibrahimovic and Henry were strikers;
    Tostao was a withdrawn-center forward so a 'trequartista';

    De vecchi, Sesta, Rava, Foni, Rosetta, Monzeglio ,Caligaris, Fogl, Allemandi, Minelli, Biro, Gasperi were CENTRAL DEFENDER not LATERAL DEFENDERS, because the fullback of METODO were central not side defenders.
    Munzenberg played in a WM such as side-defender. Nausch was a winghalf in metodo, so a side-defender.
    David Silva is a offensive midfielder with quality of playmaker not a winger, Corso too. Mane is not a winger, but a forward.
    Riva,Fritz Walter and Kubala I'll see soon for understanding better their role.

    I think that is more correct to divide historical players in the same categories:
    goalkeeper
    side-defenders
    central-defenders
    Defensive midfielders/deep-lying playmakers
    central and box-to-box midfielders
    offensive midfielders/trequartistas
    forwards
    strikers

    I hope to have your comments soon..
     
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  4. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The two defenders in metodo system has long been debatable in comparison to nowadays position. The wing-half acted similar to a semi-wing back but they were mainly based on midfield area and several times the two defenders are responsible for both central and side. In application to nowadays tactic, I see their qualification are more fit to side-full-back role particularly I don't think many of them are too short player likes De Vecchi (163 cm) to play in central defender.

    Definitely, many of the mentioned names are not a pure winger but they are also not a pure playmaker, just like free-role attacker who often operates the game on the wings so they are categorized in offensive lateral.

    In Forwards position, the categorization is considered in both role and style of play. Henry and Ibrahimovic is not a main poacher and also possesses great assist ability.

    In your proposal of categorization, I think defensive midfielder and deep-lying playmaker is too different in defensive quality and should not be in the same group. Some trequartista is more similar to forward than offensive midfielder. That's why I have two types of categorization (7 in main hall and 9 in minor hall)
     
  5. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Sorry for mistaken sentences. I mean some of the two defenders in metodo system arenot qualified for center back Position in nowadays tactic particularly aerial interception.
     
  6. Zidomnia

    Zidomnia New Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Jul 21, 2019
    No, dearman
    I'm sure that METODO fullback are central defenders. Without any doubt.
    Furthermore, many wingers that you've mentioned are not such (Hazard, Ronaldinho, Corso, David Silva are offensive midfielders, they starting from side position, but play on the center of the field);
    In the same way Messi, Di Stefano, Crujiff, Albert, Tostao and all the withdrawn center forward of the danubian metodo and the center forwards of the diagonal are offensive midfielder because play behind the forwards, usually on the center of the field, despite scoring a lot.
     
  7. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    @Dearman

    In the general table Messi is matched at 93.5 with Maradona. I imagine that the update of the first part of the 2019-20 season Messi added at least 0.1 points because it has probably been among the top 5 players in the world. Then, suppose that Messi in the second half of the season returns to have a prominent role and integrates the world podium ... that means that he added a minimum of 0.1 points. Consequently I will match Pele who has 93.7 points ... or am I wrong?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    You're right but probably the greatest ever position has not been much to be praised. Pele is arguably never the best player of the tournament in any world cup. Maradona was not successful enough in Copa America and International Club. Messi has won only 3 UCL as a key player and his performance in NT competition is known as a continual disappointing.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #1184 PuckVanHeel, Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
    LOL, Maradona and Beckenbauer receives an age bonus but not the veteran Cruijff. Typical anti dutch internet list all around, again. On a mission to erase from history in the last 20 years. Brazil as #2 football nation (behind Germany) and Netherlands ranked below Czechoslovakia is also illustrative for the hidden mind and where his allegiances are.
     
  10. La-Máquina

    La-Máquina BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 5, 2013
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He does have Cruyff with the best totaal Ablity though ;)
     
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  11. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    When will you do the new update?
     
  12. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Thanks for asking. I likely to update after La Loga next match.
     
  13. Pastacalcio11

    Pastacalcio11 New Member

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Nov 10, 2019
    #1188 Pastacalcio11, Mar 11, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
    I read 'The Footballers Evaluation Result' and i think Gulit was overrated. He didn't do well enough to take the SW class at Euro 88. Van Basten, on the other hand, is underrated. He competed with the Matthaus during the 89/90 season and ranked second place in the best foreign player survey next to Maradona.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/s...-player-ratings.2085771/page-77#post-38213682

    Perhaps the 89/90 season for Matthaus was overrated. But I think Van Basten's 89/90 season deserves SW class like Matthaus and EC93 is also SW class.
     
  14. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    and???????????????????????????????????????????????????
     
  15. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Delayed for Covid-19.
     
  16. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I think I would update soon after theconsensus of European football schedule against pandemic.
     
  17. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Van Basten deserved SW class in Series Abut he is lack of remarkability internationally.
     
  18. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    He can update the blog at forty locked up in his house
     
  19. Pastacalcio11

    Pastacalcio11 New Member

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Nov 10, 2019
    #1194 Pastacalcio11, Mar 14, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
    Even though directors and captains voted for him 113 points? Matthaus had only 16 points. Van Basten have more remarkability internationally at end of season. also Van Basten was compared to Matthaus in the middle of the season.
    It was Van Basten who raised Milan which was seventh in the league, to first place in the league. Milan stayed at the top of the league until the 32nd round.And Milan set an 11-game winning streak this season.

    If Van Basten isn't SW, maybe Matthaus is OW. Van Basten and Matthaus is same Level in the 89/90 season. it is my opinion :)
    2.jpeg 705D563F-BDF0-4A37-B559-E38F27199D1F.jpeg
     
  20. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Which ranking are you referring to ? In 1990 Ballon Dor, Van Basten wasn't receive any vote.
     
  21. Pastacalcio11

    Pastacalcio11 New Member

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Nov 10, 2019
    Look at the second picture.
    La Gazzetta survey to Managers and Captains like Trappatoni, Baresi, Bergomi etc

    The reason Van Basten didn't get a single vote in Ballon d'or is because he was poor the 90 World Cup. and also first half of 90/91 season too. but He was best player in 89/90 Serie A with Maradona and Matthaus

    I give you an enlargement :)

    1111.jpeg
     
  22. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    OK I now get it but Van Basten also scored only 3 goals in 1989 - 1990 European Cup and 2 of them were penalties.

    I see you are from Italy ? Hope you be safe from Covid.
     
  23. Pastacalcio11

    Pastacalcio11 New Member

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Nov 10, 2019
    #1198 Pastacalcio11, Mar 15, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
    1 of penalty kick is he gained himself in the Second round 1st leg from Real Madrid. he also 1 assist. so, Van Basten scored 3 goals and 2 assists in 89/90 European Cup.

    anyway, i don't think Van Basten SW class in 89/90 European cup. maybe OW. i only think Van Basten Same Class in 89/90 Serie A, domestic League.

    Thanks to your pray! :) I hope you be safe from Covid too.

    and it is Milan's Gazzetta ratings in the 89/90 European cup.
    no one was special. just Team was STRONG!

    80AF5608-6C5F-4DD8-AE8A-0BEAAAC88562.jpeg
     
  24. Pastacalcio11

    Pastacalcio11 New Member

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Nov 10, 2019
    i only think Van Basten Same Class with Matthaus in 89/90 Serie A, domestic League.*
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #1200 PuckVanHeel, Mar 15, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
    For perspective: how many goals did 'phenomenal class' Maradona score in the 1988-89 UEFA Cup as a free role forward? Three goals. Zero open play goals, zero free kicks, and none of the penalties were won by themselves (okay, one of them was his own handball). How did he rank among his team mates in the grades by Italian papers? Never among the top three isn't it? Not always among the top five either.


    The truth of the matter is MvB had the winning assist in the final, created the winning goals in the quarter final (vs Mechelen, back then from a top five league), and also created the winners against a dominant Real Madrid in the 1st round, and then also the Intercontinental Cup at the end of 1990. Except for the semi final he was consistently decisive in all the stages (in low scoring games), and not in a free role. He won penalties by himself.

    Semi final:



    It's not his best campaign or otherworldly performance but like 1987, 1989 and 1993 he was again (very) important and decisive for reaching an European final. Except maybe the semi final in all the stages.


    Ranking Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic and Uruguay significantly ahead of 'Holland' (until the Bosman ruling only two European Cups behind England and Italy, one behind Spain, two ahead of Germany, five ahead of France) is a joke and is one of the things that puts you firmly in certain camps.

    For example.

    Goals scored in the Champions League:


    Elo rating football (note: tournaments count for more):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings#Highest_average_ratings_since_1970

    Quarter finals and semi finals played:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/is-england-a-world-power-in-soccer.1984541/page-26#post-32532509

    ESM team of the month:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/missing-esm-team-of-the-month.1981639/page-4#post-38125912

    Champions League final man of the match (since 2001):

    Netherlands has three or four (Sar, Dijk, Robben, Sneijder). Uruguay and Czech Republic zero.

    Champions League topscorers (since 1955):
    Six times, vs zero for Czech Republic or Uruguay.



    Ranking Germany ahead of Brazil has also its reasons...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_imagery_in_Thailand
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-europe-battles-anti-semitism-thailand-grapples-with-nazi-chic/
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12...-ignorance-for-nazis-at-bangkok-mall/11826228

    It's a joke and a complete trainwreck, with the market forces (language, population, media machines, sponsors etc.) conspiring.
     

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