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Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.
Here a nice dribbling example! The fourth defender was too much.
As far as Finland is concerned, the anglocentrism here has been ridiculous for decades, particularly in the mainstream media. It goes back to a time when English football was the only thing in the pools/television etc. Through them we've inherited a deep anti-german bias, which shines through especially in old match commentary. Part of it is lazy cliches, too, like "machinelike and efficient" Germany, who are a good tournament team, plus microaggressions like saying "now Germany HAS to attack" after someone has scored against them. The old antipathies started to disappear during Sniffer Löw's era, and now I'd say Germany is one of the NTs with the most sympathies and especially least antipathies here (England suffers a lot of backlash from the more cultured online circles). Cultural similarities play into it, yes. On a personal level I'm 100% objective, of course.
That's interesting. What are other NTs/countries with sympathies or antipathies? Not only the Scandinavian countries I mean then (of which I'm aware there can be both rivalry as well as support if someone doesn't qualify for a tournament).
Currently the two most hated in Finland are, surprisingly, Portugal and Iceland (Russia, too, but for political rather than sporting reasons). Both stem from memorable qualifying games. Hatred of Portugal goes back all the way to 2007, when Finland came closest to qualifying in our history, but could only draw against Portugal. In that game, Finnish fans were introduced to Pepe's pioneering diving defender playing style, and Maniche was injured after softly heading the ball. They are seen as diving nancies, and all around are the antithesis of Finnish soccer values. Spain are hated, too, due to success-backlash, boring playing style, and tendency for diving. Though they're popular among the younger generation who were kids during Spain's golden years.
Iceland was THE bandwagon-team in 2016. You'd be forgiven in thinking we were the same country or something. Then, this match happened, and overnight they went from most beloved to most hated, like a pro wrestler. See penalty call and winning goal. Traditional Finnish performance, BTW.
Except for Iceland, there's very little rivalry with the other Nordic countries. Not even Sweden, probably because we've barely faced them in proper matches in living memory. Hating on Sweden is seen as a bit boorish in soccer circles. Other northern countries like Denmark and Holland (and nowadays Belgium) enjoy pretty unanimous support.
Other major countries, like Italy and the South Americans, split opinions. Though last year Neymar probably played Brazil deep into the hated-section and himself into the new Pepe in Finnish hearts. France is the epitome of meh.
Looking at poll results around recent tournaments, anti-Germanism still exists, after all, it's just not that visible. Revise them into the split opinion -camp.
Let's hear it from everyone else, too! What are the main sympathies/antipathies in your country?
I looked on it and it had also a reference to Yashin
With tournaments (even more so when NLD doesn't qualify, 1986, 2002, 2018) Belgium has always been the most supported country. An exception is the east of the country where their support is more shaky. There the support for Germany is the strongest (despite 'complaints' about them not speaking the language, behaving arrogant/entitled, and flooding the country ) while in Rotterdam it is 2-5% for obvious reasons (east of the country also the most fascist part before/during WW2, as was Utrecht ).
Supporters of FC Twente (the east) are the only ones who prefer Germany more than Belgium. Females are more likely to favor Belgium than males (difference of 10 percent points). With football clubs we also see German clubs from the west (e.g. Dortmund, or Schalke) collect more sympathies than clubs further away.
For the rest it also depends on who you ask. A relatively old panel (average age 49) with 'moderate to great interest in football' had this is most favorite and least favorite countries. Most: Belgium, France, Brazil, Germany, Morocco, Denmark. Least: Iran, Portugal, Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain. The casual followers had Russia, Iran, Germany, Saudi Arabia and Morocco as least liked countries.
In 2014 there was a research among a younger panel (below age 30 or age 35). The most liked were Belgium, England, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, United States. Least liked were Portugal, Spain, Germany, England, Brazil, Greece, Argentina, followed by Russia, Italy and Uruguay (this was before Russia shot down our plane).
The big constant is Belgium is #1. If not a majority then a clear plurality, sure (when they played Brazil we saw majorities of 80 percent and higher). The rest is more 'context dependent'. Scandinavian countries cause indifferent or positive feelings, I think.
Of course there were also some who were afraid the neighbors would win the World Cup before we do
Waiting for the update
After Copa America 2019, I will update. Thanks.
Sorry for very late update as I mainly have other activities in this year. In April, it was my first time visit Europe in Switzerland, Austria and Germany. This is very amazing trip. In Germany, I visit guide tour at Allianza Arena and Bayern Munich Museum including Frankfurt, Wurzburg and Roternberg. In Switzerland, I went to Jungfrau, Zermatt, Zurich, Bern and Geneva. In Austria, I visited Innsbruck, Salzburg and Hallstatt.
Now all lists have been updated. This is summary.
In World all-time greatest footballer, although there is no movement in ranking, Messi has been behind Maradona just 0.1 point.
In Positional Hall of Fame, there is no new comer although Pogba will soon appear in top 50 probably at the end of this year.
In 9x100 positional ranking list, an only new comer is N'Golo Kante.
World Annual Awards of the century : Van Dijk and Messi is calculated in same score but Van Dijk is advantageous for his better score in international football.
@Dearman, curious about what has changed lately in your methodology so you "finally" have Platini and Zidane above Zico? After all these years.
Looks better anyway . I mean, to me, at least. But some could prefer Zico (above one or both of them).
I set a criteria of maximum performance in Brazilian regional league at supreme-world-class so Zico's score in domestic performance is significantly down.
Ok, (we can see on blog that Phenomenon-Class is the top).
Messi 14-15 should be in the top five of international club seasons, I feel it's a significant error to overlook it.
Also, should Meazza be ranked as highest of the pre-war era? He is hardly ever mentioned as the greatest Italian player of all time, and Italy building its team around Orsi, Monti and Guarisi for WC34 makes me think he was just seen as a a good role player but not at the level to carry the team, then Piola outplayed him at WC38. Scarone has a stronger claim, being the best player of a WC winning side plus the best player of an Olympic tournament that has the merits of a WC.
I'm not certain which list you're referring to, I include Messi's 14 -15 season in third place of int.club best performer ever in a single season.
There is no evidence of Meazza's footage enough to reliably evaluate but he is commonly regarded by many Italian experts as one of Italian players ever.
I just finish some important updates in Forward skill.
Raymond Braine is out as his skill is optimized at striker list but his point remain not make top 50 (However, this player has never seen any footage just based on related article).
Josip Skoblar also become lower than top 50 enabling Mohammed Salah and Antoine Greizmann newly add to the list.
Additionally, in central defender position, Van Dijk is already in top 15. Daniel Alves has also been included in top 50 SB as I may underrate him previously.
Based on the awesome 2018-19 season of Van Dijk. Also agree with your impressive work. But how is it possible that suddenly, this player is placed in the 13th position, ahead of historic centers such as Koeman, Ramos, Domingos or Rio Ferdinand, just to give four examples? On the other hand, I am also surprised by the absence in the top 50 of Piqué, which has a long and successful professional career in Barcelona and in the Spanish national team.
He is rated top 15 by skill, not career. The skill is ranked below the likes of Maldini, Sammer, Chumpitaz and such.
Don't worry, Dearman remains firmly part of the downgrade machinery and double handicap brigade He ignores him completely for his Southampton years and his high WhoScored ratings + win percentage difference (40% vs 20% wins there in 30+ missed games) at the time.
Of course he shouldn't be top 15 for career.
WhoScored Man of the Match designations since 2009 (for top 5 leagues)
Godin - 29
Chiellini - 25
Thiago Silva - 25
Lucio - 22
Hummels - 20
Vidic - 20
Van Dijk - 19
Sergio Ramos - 17
Terry - 10
Bonucci - 9
Pique - 9
Walter Samuel - 8
Boateng - 7
Kompany - 7
Varane - 7
Pepe - 5
Van Buyten - 3
Nesta - 2
Rio Ferdinand - 1
Puyol - 0
For clarity, this includes the match of yesterday (WhoScored):
"Rarely have Liverpool looked as vulnerable, as Bramall Lane hummed with excitement before the game and roared in constant defiance during it. Had it not been for Virgil van Dijk, the visiting defence would have been over run. The Dutchman was immense, on the ground and in the air. He held everything together, despite the constant questions asked by Callum Robinson and the impressive Oli McBurnie."
Five Premier League seasons above a WS rating of 7.40 is pretty strong/impressive; just as Southampton dropping from 40% to 21% win percentage without him (47 missed league games for the entire 2015-2018 period).
Sorry for late reply. I think Puck has given you a perfect answer for Van Dijk. For Pique, I don't see how would his skill be such competitive. His position and tackling are inferiors to many defenders in his time.
Now Alexis Sanchez has been qualified for 50th greatest offensive lateral of all-time after evaluate his career performance in system and I transfer Milos Milutinovic to Honorable Mention. Some persons requested David Silva to qualify for top 50. I agree his consistency in domestic football is better than many in the lists but his peak is relatively low. He is chosen in FIFPRO World XI 5th team in 3 times while Alexis is chosen in 4th team in 3 times.
In striker list, Sergio Aguero has been evaluated in full system as well. He is still behind Ian Rush 0.6 point. I think he will have a great likelihood to replace Rush at the end of this season. Lewandowski is following at 52th.
You overrate the skill of Sammer (all those yellow cards are no coincidence) and to a lesser extent Maldini.
Hello, mate, I was looking through your goalkeepers list and since I’m focused lately on Italian league players of the 1980s to early 1990s, I see you have chosen Zenga and Pagliuca in your list, and they were certainly top-class keepers, but if Pagluica is there, I would evaluate others like Tacconi, a stronger choice over Pagluica in a similar epoch and second choice keeper at the 1990 WC, and Tancredi, considered one of the premier keepers by Italian followers in the 1980s. There was just so many top goalkeepers in Italy at the time.
Tacconi consistently received high seasonal rating in series A. I rate Tacconi at 60th best goalkeeper ever. He rarely participated in National team career so his NT score is simply low. I agree Tacredi should have been named in top 100 when look at his rating in dbscalcio that is even better than Tacconi.
OK, I will look into it.