UEFA CL is exciting for many countries in Europe, CWC is exciting for ~50% of the fans of 6 different clubs. Confed cup is exciting for 8 nations (I doubt the fans are as excited as seeing their teams in the respective continental tournaments with the exception of New Zealand maybe), EURO is exciting for whole Europe + some fans in the rest of the world.
I would say that most of us U.S.A. fans are more excited by the Confed. Cup than the Gold Cup this year. Brazil and Italy are in our group (and should both have their strongest squads) and we're also playing Egypt who we rarely play against. (can't remember the last time we did)
Come on now let’s be honest, the quality standard of Football and excitement level of matches are definitely greater in the World Cup than what we see in the UEFA Champions League. Reasons including: a) The players put more passion, care, and a greater winning attitude into the World Cup, this because the World Cup is by far the biggest and greatest competition on the planet and consists of by far the biggest prize. b) There are more quality players and therefore a better standard of football seen at the World Cup, this because not only does the competition consist of top talent from the UEFA Champions League, but also top talent from the CONMEBOL Copa Libertadores, UEFA Cup/Europa League, Argentinian Primera, Brazilian Serie A, Mexican Primera, and other very good to excellent competitions and leagues outside of Europe. c) The World Cup is an International Competition, which consists of International matches, and therefore entire Contries going head to head, and each Country coming together as one. This therefore should and does generate way more interest, importance, and excitement, as opposed to what a tiny City or Town, located within a Country, participates in. Even the European International Championships, and other Continental International competitions, are more interesting , important etc, than a competition in place for Towns and Cities. At the end of the day the World Cup is superior to the UEFA Champions League in pretty much every area, and the UEFA Champions League doesn’t even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as the World Cup.
Your not the first person to say this on this thread, and it's such a laughable statement. Do you honestly believe players hold back, and go in half arsed in local league games let alone CL knockout games. Do you think after a loss, the likes of Messi or J Terry go to their managers and say "Sorry boss, I held back a bit because I'm saving myself for next years World Cup". If you truly believe that, you don't understand football.
Its not a laughable statement at all. With the greater competitions comes the greater determination to win, and the World Cup is the greatest competition of them all. Also I never said anything about players going into EPL or CL games half arsed, and I very much doubt that anybody would believe that quote you made regarding a player saving himself a bit for next years WC, even when the WC is over a year away.
Guess he just didn't want it enough in last years CL final. Maybe he'll up his game with the increased 'winning mentality' he'll have in the World Cup.
Laughable is someone try to ridicule others by assuming himself a ridiculous 'superiority' posture ('you're not the first person to say this in this thread'). When the vote in the above poll is an unrespondible 68 x 17 (80%!!!) for the World Cup. And then give what he thinks it's an 'argument' but it's no more than a wild guess based on a dumb assumption: When he himself should know that a true professional won't 'hold back' be it in a league, CL or WC game ever. And concludes in a golden key: Hail, master of masters!...
Who said anything about John Terry not wanting to win the CL final enough? Your just putting words into people's mouths. Like I said though with the greater competitions comes the greater determination to win, and the WC is by far the greatest comp of them all. If a team was to lose in the WC Final the players would be far more gutted and upset than losing in a club competition final.
The only thing I don't agree here - and to which Karloski stuck like an oyster in a rock - is with players putting more passion, care, and a greater winning attitude into the World Cup. I think it's the same. As I said true pros put passion in any important competition they participate of. Sometimes even the amateurs. Kids playing their Sunday ball game in the neighborhood square exert as much effort & can provoke as much excitement as pros in any Libertadores final. Independently of the situation. Happiness is happiness be it in the middle of the Sahara or in a ski resort in Switzerland. But that the World Cup (like the ski resort) is in a higher level is. Technical & enterpreneurial. The winners of a CL are important for their Euro club's fans and (negatively) to their Euro opponents. Nobody else cares. The winners (and losers) of a WC are important worldwide. Everybody cares. Clear as water. PS: That's an argument, Karloski.
I think you're very much overestimating the emotional commitment of footballers there, and at the same time underestimating their commitment to money.
These are professionals, not amateurs who are in it for the pride only. Footballers in the bigger leagues for the vast majority play for money. Their club is their employer and the one that makes them a millionaire, not their country. The world cup is more relevant to players from smaller countries as the world cup to them is a stage where they can be noticed by the international scouts who can help them get a step up on the career ladder. I don't mean to be cynical here but you have wildly romantic ideas about what makes a footballer tick. Footballers change loyalty quicker than Paris Hilton changes boyfriends. It's their bank accounts that count first and foremost.
When the play in the Champions League, the players don't think, "Nah, I won't go in for that pass, cause I don't really care. I'll just wait till the World Cup." If they do care less about the Champions League, it doesn't manifest itself in matches.
Exactly. That's why the football of your 'bigger' leagues became so crappy & boring to watch. The big players from other countries as soon as they reach their consumption dream of playing for RM, Milan, MU, simply...stop playing. They're' rich' now & they have long contracts, so it's enough - and that's what I call cynicism - to do a few stunts and adapt to the defensive schemes of their teams & NOT LOSE (see that ridiculous MU x Everton today?) that they'll be worth the ticket. And you'll all naively clap your hands in satisfaction. The more you write the more you confirm my words. Even though it's a fallacy to say that the 'scouts' wait for long 4 years to pick up foreign players to their clubs. They parade their ignorance in football every year going to 'spy' the REAL football leagues of Argentina, Brazil, Cameroon etc picking up players they are told to buy by native observers (all their 'knowledge' is money in the pockets). The World Cup is where those scouts find out that they spent 4 years in those countries & - weird! - didn't notice 'such' & 'such' evidently good players so unnoticed by them back then. And they buy all those players (only to forget many more in the next 4 years), spoiling them & forming those boring teams - having as end result the fact that SAs historically keep leading the CWCs. In your strife not to sound 'cynical' (you're right, cynicism is not easy to achieve, it demands talent) you also romantically forget that as soon as those players stop playing football since money starts weighing in their pockets, those same clubs exchange them by others just like your Paris Hilton did with her former boyfriends.
IOW, the players from smaller countries are playing for money too. "A step up on the career ladder" goes with a huge step-up in money. So its easy to turn your argument around 180 degrees. Messi and CRonaldo don't need the WC to bolster their bank account. It's the Ivorian or Chilean playing in England's third division with a more humble life-style that has more to gain financially by impressing on a big international stage.
As far as I agree with some of your statements, I think they can be used on a reverse sense: even though many of the greatest players play for money and change their (club) loyalty often, imo, their loyalty for their country are still the strongest. I'm not sure CRonaldo or Messi would cry if their clubs are elliminated from CL (after all, next year there's another chance and money is guaranteed), but tears roll down when their NT are elliminated from WC.
Also agree, as uamiranda, with your main statements about football as a business, but what you call romantic I'd refer to as immaterial, maybe. Don't believe the leading reason to an outsider go to an European career is a kind of comfort necessity, since an 8 bedrooms house, instead of 80, can often be achieved in his original country. What I mean is, at least for non-European stars, playing there is more of a dream, a goal built in childhood on their idols model, as immaterial as what you've called, me as well, patriotism. Think it's all there when WC starts, even if, a week later of the final game, our Parises don't remember it so clearly...
That's a fair point. I was just trying to say that it's more important to shine at a world cup when no-one outside your league's noticed you before than when you've already proved your quality in a high profile league. I'm sure there are some players out there who feel genuinely passionate about playing for their country but I have my doubts about most of them. For example, I'm pretty confident that someone like Dirk Kuyt genuinely likes to put on an orange shirt but if the Holland manager told Sneijder he'd be on the bench for the entire world cup he probably wouldn't even bother to show up.
C’mon Neeskens, Don’t give us this pose of cold Dutch businessman that you aren’t. For whom the world is no more than numbers & cyphers and human activities a mere product of offer & demand. And football players are no more than a piece of this confuse & decadent machine that you proudly call European football. Who are payed to produce sufficient milliliters of milk per day in order to feed the public of your countries. Like Holstein cows. And that parade in World Cups as if they were already distinguished exposition champions that you proudly exhibit as trophys. When you & the rest of the farmers reunite in order to observe which new exemplars you are going to buy. You’re offending them. They are playing for money, yes, but for more and more of them money is just a means not an end in itself. They are starting to discover that if they play only for the money, their 'milk', their football will dry out. Since they come from poor countries, as soon as they sign what you call ‘millionaire’ contracts (because they are in their majority underpaid for the amount of money you produce with them) they simply think they arrived to the peak of their careers and stop developping. We have innumerable examples of this new breed of player that aided by the world (specially European) economical crisis is already giving up the European ’dream’. Recent responses like Kaká’s refusal of the trillionaire offer of Manchester City, Fred coming back to Brazil, Ronaldinho’s sudden ‘decadence in Paradise’ (conformed with going to Milan even earning less), Adriano’s ‘anarchic’ & ‘anti-professional’ attitude sending to the space Inter & all its millions to a more human life in Brazil (even if it’s to live in a favela!...) are a worrying sign for you & your ‘rich’ continental peers that the ‘castle’ is starting to fall apart. And, c’mon, Johann, you still want us to ‘buy’ your ridiculous pose of millionaire businessman?!... The World Cup is the only 'high profile' response to the decadent although still nocive dictatorship of football merchantilism.