World Cup Individual Advanced Stats

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by schwuppe, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Ah, ok, I got it now - the detailed summaries are there for each player I think, and it is the absence of Rivaldo's heatmap that made more of them visible (I hadn't noticed the capability to scroll down, only the link to go to the player's general profile, but now I see that for Cafu too for example, so probably it's not a work in progress but it's already done for all players and just the heatmap is missing for Rivaldo in that game).

    I'll look through things for various players more thoroughly in the future, but yeah it is more useful/informative than I realised before, game by game. Here is the set of stats for Cafu vs Scotland too anyway:
    Minutes played
    90'
    Goals
    0
    Assists
    0
    Clearances
    3
    Blocked shots
    0
    Interceptions
    4
    Tackles
    4
    Dribbled past
    0
    Ground duels (won)
    8 (5)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (1)
    Possession lost
    17
    Fouls
    2
    Was fouled
    1
    Touches
    88
    Acc. passes
    46/55 (84%)
    Key passes
    2
    Crosses (acc.)
    6 (1)
    Long balls (acc.)
    3 (1)
    Shots on target
    1
    Shots off target
    0
    Shots blocked
    2
    Dribble attempts (succ.)
    2 (0)


    Those will be interesting to inspect for the top rated performances, ones that are a little under-rated or over-rated in our personal views etc, in various games.

    In terms of line-ups, yeah for example Terry Paine's heatmap vs Mexico in 1966 confirms him as right winger in the line-up basically, so they erroneously showed him as the left striker in the diagram. They may have switched Zinho's position in the first game now I think in 1994, but in game 2 also (currently he's shown as RCAM in the 4-2-2-2) the heatmap does reflect him playing mostly to the left side too), while Rai's shows him a bit more all over the pitch, but more prominently to the right side, so I think a switch between them would be appropriate (and I'm assuming that'd be evident in the way they did line up at the start of the game too, like in Paine's case also).

    I had a quick look at heatmaps for Chislenko vs Italy 1966, and Albert vs Brazil that year too and for sure those are interesting (and possibly the line-ups could/should be shown in a slightly different way, with the former a bit higher up like more of a wing forward arguably, and the latter a bit lower down - I already watched the 90 minutes of Hungary vs Brazil and even made an Albert touches video so I pretty much knew what the heatmap would be in that case, although putting anyone as true CF might be kind of incorrect anyway and maybe showing him there isn't completely wrong and he was just a free roaming centre forward - in effect I think Farkas operated a bit more like the striker although as the heatmap indicates not in a fixed role..and it doesn't show him as much left of centre as I'd have assumed even if his starting position arguably was more to the left I think).

    Another example is Hagi vs Colombia in 1994 - whether there's a case for saying the starting position is correct or not, the heatmap does show him pretty much all over the pitch (although not much towards defence and the 'hottest' area is to the right indeed). It's not really much different vs Argentina either, with quite a bit of yellow on the right wing/midfield position, but also some advanced on the left wing, and the hottest area being left AM....(while Dumitrescu's heatmap is more concentrated towards attack, and still more skewed to the left rather than the centre in that game, so it's another one where there isn't really a true CF playing, but it's understandable they show one in the line-up I suppose, and maybe it was nominally Dumitrescu anyway).
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #277 PDG1978, Oct 29, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2022
    Having got my head around all the functions available on the site a bit more now I definitely understand/concur with comme's description of it as being phenomenal as it's really impressively detailed with everything they've got - the stats game by game, heatmaps, possession stats by team in each game etc!

    I thought since previously when the OPTA widget was available I/we had focused on overall chances created (which now becomes key passes) a Key Passes ladder could be interesting to compile (I'm also working on a spreadsheet of 30 notable all-round exceptional individual displays in my estimation for all stats, to have them all viewable side by side as it were...and comparable for any other performances that can be searched out too, so I can share the result on here when it's done).

    Top 25 (....well 26) Highest Key Pass contributions (some including extra-time, as indicated)
    Antonio Simoes - Portugal vs North Korea 1966 - 11 (Sofascore rating: 9.1)
    Johan Cruyff - Netherlands vs Bulgaria 1974 - 11 (Sofascore rating: 9.7)
    Gordon Strachan - Scotland vs New Zealand 1982 - 10 (Sofascore rating: 8.9)
    Kevin De Bruyne - Belgium vs USA 2014 (after extra-time) - 10 (Sofascore rating: 8.9)
    Vasil Mitkov - Bulgaria vs Morocco 1970 - 9 (Sofascore rating: 8.2)
    Wolfgang Overath - W.Germany vs Italy 1970 (after extra-time) - 9 (Sofascore rating: 7.6)
    Gianni Rivera - Italy vs Haiti 1974 - 9 (Sofascore rating: 9.7)
    Michel - Spain vs Yugoslavia 1990 (after extra-time) - 9 (Sofascore rating: 7.6)
    Ronald de Boer - Netherlands vs Yugoslavia 1998 - 9 (Sofascore rating: 8.5)
    Gianni Rivera - Italy vs North Korea 1966 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 7.9)
    Wolfgang Overath - W.Germany vs England 1970 (after extra-time) - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8)
    Hugo Sotil - Peru vs Morocco 1970 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 7.6)
    Kazimierz Deyna - Poland vs Haiti 1974 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 9.1)
    Kazimierz Deyna - Poland vs Italy 1974 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 9.1)
    Henryk Kaspercsak - Poland vs Italy 1974 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.6)
    Alain Giresse - France vs Austria 1982 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.3)
    Leandro - Brazil vs New Zealand 1982 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.9)
    Thomas Hassler - Germany vs Belgium 1994 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 7.8)
    Diego Maradona - Argentina vs Nigeria 1994 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.4)
    Zinedine Zidane - France vs South Africa 1998 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 7.6)
    Bernd Schneider - Germany vs Saudi Arabia 2002 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 9.8)
    Ronaldinho - Brazil vs Japan 2006 (71 minutes played) - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.2)
    Bastian Schweinsteiger - Germany vs Costa Rica 2006 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.2)
    Tranquillo Barnetta - Switzerland vs Honduras 2010 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 7.7)
    Xavi - Spain vs Portugal 2010 - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.1)
    Lionel Messi - Argentina vs Switzerland 2014 (after extra-time) - 8 (Sofascore rating: 8.4)

    Several of them came against low-ranked opposition I suppose, and maybe that is something the overall rating formula doesn't take account of too I'm thinking. Big chances created for all years would certainly have been interesting to know about too (that's just available for 2018, with De Bruyne vs England and Mbappe vs Belgium both registering 3, the highest in the tournament - they were on 6 key passes each in those games overall; for 2018 they show all minutes played too I see rather than just saying 90 minutes for full game performances...even though with time added on for stoppages all games should in theory be deemed the same playing length unless they go to extra-time - I'm also thinking that the per game stats they show in general might be better as per 90 minutes which I assume they are not (or maybe they are?), because as with this key passes ladder players playing extra-time have more time to do things, and players playing less than a full 90 minutes have less.
     
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  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Interesting to see the North Korean goalkeeper up among the top 20 for Sofascore ratings for 1966 (only the 2nd highest for goalkeepers though, behind Mazurkiewicz, with two more within the top 20 too in Roma of Argentina, and Banks) - he certainly makes a great save in the opening couple of minutes vs Italy, which in effect turns out to be determinant (which for example the Banks save from Pele in 1970 wasn't actually in terms of the final result of the game) - the 'key pass' played by Mazzola rather than Rivera on that occasion though (but I had noticed long ago via highlights that Rivera did set up a lot of chances with his passing in that game indeed).
     
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  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #279 PDG1978, Oct 29, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2022
    Here is that table I made for myself now:
    WldCupStsSofa.png

    Kempes played extra-time of course vs the Netherlands, and Moore did too in his own World Cup Final in 1966, and was also primarily a defender unlike the others in the table (albeit a de facto playmaker too, and I thought overall it was worth including his stats in the table for that game).

    So I guess it's quicker to now use that table to compare other performances with those statistically also. Maybe as an example that comes to mind (and I'll do myself sometime soon, having not done yet), both Platini in the semi-final of 1982 vs W.Germany and Xavi in the semi-final of 2010 vs Germany can be compared to the midfielders performances in the table, although also to each other (perhaps adding 30% on to the volume stats of Xavi as an estimate of what he'd have got to with extra-time continuing similarly though, since Platini played extra-time obviously, and so the volume of his stats is inflated to some degree by that compared to most of the examples above too). Messi vs Nigeria in 2014 is perhaps good to compare to Bergkamp vs South Korea in 1998, since they didn't play the full games (although actually Bergkamp's time on the pitch is slightly closer to Laudrup's vs Uruguay in 86, as he came off himself with a few minutes left to play). Maybe Hazard vs Brazil from 2018 is good/interesting to compare to Zidane vs the same opposition (especially the 2006 one has similarities maybe), but perhaps also directly with eg Iniesta vs Paraguay from 2010. I'd guess C.Ronaldo vs Spain would likely be mentioned from 2018 too, and one that comes to mind that perhaps would be an appropriate comparison (and one that I considered including in the table at one point) would be Paolo Rossi vs Brazil in 1982. I had a look at Roger Milla vs both Colombia and England from 1990 with a view to including possibly, since at least the extra-time meant a decent amount of playing time despite being sub, but the volumes of recorded actions aren't really high overall.

    I should correct myself on Luis Enrique by the way: it was his 2nd game vs Germany in 1994 that got the low Sofascore rating, not his 1st game. The stats do reflect reasons for that anyway, and he did get left out for the following game. Letchkov in the opening game potentially seems under-rated to me for sure (based on the fact I had him in the group stage best XI at the time myself, but also on viewing back some of that game vs Nigeria a while ago, albeit more of the 1st half possibly, and gradually Nigeria took complete control of the scoreline and game before the end). One that does seem under-represented by the Sofascore rating to me is Valery Voronin vs Portugal in the 1966 3rd Place-Play Off, maybe because things like being in the right places to prevent a player (in particular Eusebio in that game) making progress are not really reflected by the stats. Beckenbauer vs USSR from that year too (I put the stats in the table above), but it's true there were a few losses of possession that could have been avoided and the extent of his involvement wasn't particularly high, plus certain actions won't register - moving the ball away from an opponent isn't always a dribble (perhaps it comes into play in terms of duels though), or putting a team-mate in a promising position in or around the box isn't always a key pass/chance created (just like pre-assists like Zico vs Argentina with the pass to Falcao aren't specifically recorded, and literal key passes in terms of creating openings team-mates take advantage of to create chances aren't distinguished unless long balls I guess - long balls means long passes I'm assuming in effect by the way - plus qualitative things about quality of control or progressiveness of pass aren't really factored in either it seems, and neither qualitative judgements about quality of goals or level of opposition/stage of the tournament etc). Another one is seemingly Maradona vs Bulgaria in 1986, based on quality of play and danger created etc (there were some comments on this forum that I ended up agreeing with about that being potentially worth a 5/6 from France Football rather than the 4/6 it received), though it's true that in the end many of his actions ended up as nearly moments (sometimes his final play could have been more accurate, sometimes just a near miss IIRC) and so they'd show up negatively and unlike in other games he didn't have more than one piece of converted end product to weight against that either, but yeah at first glance that Sofascore grade does seem surprisingly low still (even it becomes understandable how that occured).

    I merged ground and aerial duels to save space (there don't tend to be many aerial duels in the performances I picked out anyway though), so the categories in the table above are as follows:
    Goals
    Assists
    Touches
    Accurate Passes
    Pass Accuracy %
    Key Passes
    Accurate Crosses
    Cross Accuracy %
    Accurate Long Balls
    Long Ball Accuracy %
    Shots On Target
    Shots Off Target
    Shots Blocked
    Successful Dribbles
    Dribble Success %
    Total Duels Won
    % Duels Won
    Possession Lost
    Fouls by player
    Fouls against player
    Clearances
    Blocked shots (blocks by player concerned)
    Interceptions
    Successful Tackles
    Number of times dribbled past by opponents

    There are a few occasions where other categories come into it eg penalties won and last man tackles (as an example Eusebio has one of the former vs North Korea and Moore one of the latter vs W.Germany in 1966), but those in the table are the main ones that apply to all players anyway.

    N/A means not applicable because no attempts (where there are 0 successes and 0 % success it is from a small number of attempts).
     
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  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Perhaps Zico vs New Zealand could have been the better choice from 1982, and it was one of the 10 out of 10s with Sofascore, so I'll just do a copy and paste of his data for that game too:

    Minutes played
    90'
    Goals
    2
    Assists
    2
    Touches
    71
    Acc. passes
    50/54 (93%)
    Key passes
    4
    Crosses (acc.)
    2 (1)
    Long balls (acc.)
    5 (5)
    Shots on target
    5
    Shots off target
    4
    Shots blocked
    2
    Dribble attempts (succ.)
    1 (0)
    Ground duels (won)
    2 (0)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (0)
    Possession lost
    6
    Fouls
    2
    Was fouled
    0
    Clearances
    0
    Blocked shots
    0
    Interceptions
    0
    Tackles
    0
    Dribbled past
    0


    And this is the copy and paste for Salenko vs Cameroon in 1994 (highest goals tally in World Cup games, that perhaps unsurprisingly got a 10 from Sofascore as well):

    Minutes played
    90'
    Goals
    5
    Assists
    1
    Shots on target
    6
    Shots off target
    2
    Shots blocked
    0
    Dribble attempts (succ.)
    2 (2)
    Touches
    35
    Acc. passes
    8/9 (89%)
    Key passes
    3
    Crosses (acc.)
    0 (0)
    Long balls (acc.)
    0 (0)
    Ground duels (won)
    16 (6)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (0)
    Possession lost
    7
    Fouls
    4
    Was fouled
    0
    Offsides
    2
    Clearances
    0
    Blocked shots
    0
    Interceptions
    2
    Tackles
    4
    Dribbled past
    0
     
  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Obviously everyone can look up the data themselves, but for completeness I'll add the duels data (whatever that exactly refers to - maybe there is overlap with dribbles, tackles etc in part too?) for the players in the table, separated by ground and aerial, sometime later on today.

    I should have stated Stojkovic played extra-time vs Spain too of course. In that sense maybe a comparable one would be his own game vs Argentina, or perhaps Scifo vs England in the 1990 World Cup too (though the Sofascore calculated rating is clearly in Stojkovic's favour, partly because of end product of course, but maybe Scifo's passing percentage doesn't necessarily reflect the quality of the good/successful ones and his general influence; they do end up with a similar Sofascore rating for the World Cup though and maybe it could even be a bit the other way round if comparing an excellent Stojkovic display vs UAE with Scifo's opening performance vs South Korea where the calculation goes comfortably in Scifo's favour, and on that occasion his distribution is just about spot on throughout according to the passing stats).

    I realise after checking, and it's maybe not a shock, that Xavi actually had more of the ball in 90 minutes vs Germany in 2010 than Platini did vs West Germany in 1982 including extra-time.
     
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Albert vs Brazil 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    24 (16)
    Aerial duels (won)
    3 (3)

    Beckenbauer vs Switzerland 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    19 (12)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Beckenbauer vs USSR 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    9 (4)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (1)

    Bobby Charlton vs Mexico 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    14 (9)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (1)

    Cruyff vs Argentina 1974:
    Ground duels (won)
    20 (9)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Cruyff vs Brazil 1974:
    Ground duels (won)
    19 (9)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (0)

    Cruyff vs Bulgaria 1974:
    Ground duels (won)
    15 (13)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (1)

    Cruyff vs Sweden 1974:
    Ground duels (won)
    31 (22)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (1)

    Cubillas vs Scotland 1978:
    Ground duels (won)
    11 (5)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (0)

    Elkjaer vs Uruguay 1986:
    Ground duels (won)
    9 (3)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Eusebio vs North Korea 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    15 (14)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (1)

    Eusebio vs Brazil 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    20 (15)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (1)

    Kempes vs Netherlands 1978:
    Ground duels (won)
    28 (17)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (0)

    Kempes vs Poland 1978:
    Ground duels (won)
    23 (15)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (1)

    Hagi vs Colombia 1994:
    Ground duels (won)
    29 (18)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (1)

    Laudrup vs Uruguay 1986:
    Ground duels (won)
    19 (12)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (0)

    Maradona vs Belgium 1986:
    Ground duels (won)
    23 (17)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Maradona vs England 1986:
    Ground duels (won)
    30 (21)
    Aerial duels (won)
    3 (2)

    Maradona vs Hungary 1982:
    Ground duels (won)
    24 (19)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Maradona vs South Korea 1986:
    Ground duels (won)
    26 (18)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (1)

    Matthaus vs Yugoslavia 1990:
    Ground duels (won)
    11 (9)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (1)

    Moore vs W.Germany 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    10 (5)
    Aerial duels (won)
    5 (1)

    Pele vs Bulgaria 1966:
    Ground duels (won)
    39 (23)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Pele vs Czechoslovakia 1970:
    Ground duels (won)
    13 (5)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Rivaldo vs Denmark 1998:
    Ground duels (won)
    19 (11)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (1)

    Stojkovic vs Spain 1990:
    Ground duels (won)
    20 (14)
    Aerial duels (won)
    0 (0)

    Tigana vs Austria 1982:
    Ground duels (won)
    24 (15)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (0)

    Zico vs Argentina 1982:
    Ground duels (won)
    11 (3)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (0)

    Zidane vs Brazil 1998:
    Ground duels (won)
    5 (3)
    Aerial duels (won)
    2 (2)

    Zidane vs Brazil 2006:
    Ground duels (won)
    16 (12)
    Aerial duels (won)
    1 (0)
     
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  8. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    #283 Al Gabiru, Oct 31, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
    This sofascore app is useful but has several issues with player ratings

    How is it possible for David Luiz to receive 7.2 against Germany in 2014? He made individual mistakes on three Germany goals, at least. But not just the goals. He gave a pass to Muller in the second half that was almost 8-1, for example. There is a video on youtube "david luiz germany 7-1" which is self-explanatory.

    I saw that there are tags "Error led to goal" and "Error led to shot", but not "errors led to clear chance" (Muller was tackled before the shot, but Luiz's pass created a clear scoring chance). Passive actions, when the defender don't fight for the ball, like David Luiz did against Germany, doesn't have a definition. Many goals from Germany were in the players that David Luiz watched (lost duels?) Etc

    7.2 for David Luiz against Germany put the app in a bad spot.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #284 PuckVanHeel, Nov 3, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
    Turns out Eusebio with his 9 goals (8.80) and Cruijff (8.74) had the highest tournament ratings. With a moderate but significant gap to the group coming next (0.26).

    Who would have thought that... *sarcasm* Someone like Simon Kuper not I guess (who is of course also wrong at non-football related things)



    No surprises there, and it will not change the usual narratives, the media dynamics, the free rides to hack down, and demographic agendas (the The Guardian comments section), but well, if that fails there is always the "short peak" narrative to fall back on.

    Maradona in 1986 (8.39) doesn't look too high initially, but that is misleading. When restricting to players playing (more than) 5 games he is #3 (and with no extra time to boost the rating) and only 0.01 behind number two.

    He's just not miles ahead of all others, and as remarked before, the average Elo rating of the opposition in 1986 is undeniably fairly low (compared to the other top names, something like 100-150 points lower IIRC).

    ________________________________

    What a shame for football how Amsterdam, with all their footballers of the past, is now transformed into a Disneyland playground. A kitsch version of the past, carefully maintained by the ~85% left-wing vote controlling the city (with a ex-communist mayor in top). Tourism turns it into Venice.

    https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2022/10/1...aar-hoe-verging-het-de-teamgenootjes-a4144952

    Compare 1980s vs 2010s :
    [​IMG]



    Gentrification (and the Surinam upward mobility) has a price.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Eden Hazard 2018 is #5 or #6, it seems (5+ games).
     
  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #286 PDG1978, Nov 3, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
    It looks like it would be this for an overall Sofascore ratings ladder (5+ games, 1966 onwards):
    1 Eusebio 1966 - 8.80
    2 Johan Cruijff 1974 - 8.74
    3 Helmut Haller 1966, Gerd Muller 1970 - 8.48
    5 Lothar Matthaus 1990 - 8.40
    6 Diego Maradona 1986 - 8.39
    7 Pele 1970, Mario Kempes 1978 - 8.33
    9 Rivelino 1970 - 8.30
    10 Jairzinho 1970 - 8.27
    11 Andreas Brehme 1990 - 8.22
    12 Franz Beckenbauer 1966, Bobby Charlton 1966 - 8.15
    14 Lilian Thuram 1998, Eden Hazard 2018 - 8.12
    16 Careca 1986, Andrea Pirlo 2006 - 8.10
    18 Franz Beckenbauer 1970, Kazimierz Deyna 1974, Daniel Passarella 1978 - 8.06
    21 Ramon Quiroga 1978 - 8.05
    22 Anatoliy Tymoshchuk 2006 - 8.04
    23 Ronnie Hellstrom 1974 - 8.03
    24 Gheorghe Hagi 1994 - 8.00
    25 Bobby Moore 1966, Zbigniew Boniek 1982 - 7.98
    27 Michael Ballack 2002 - 7.97
    28 Michel Platini 1982, Lionel Messi 2010, James Rodriguez 2014 - 7.96
    31 Martin Peters 1966, Zinedine Zidane 1998, Neymar 2018 - 7.94
    34 Rob Rensenbrink 1978, Zico 1982, Friedrich Koncilla 1982, Ronaldo 2002 - 7.90

    I just went down to 7.90 average ratings. An overall XI seems to be therefore like this:
    Quiroga (Peru) 1978; Passarella (Argentina) 1978; Thuram (France) 1998, Moore (England) 1966, Brehme (W.Germany) 1990; Haller 1966 (W.Germany), Matthaus 1990 (W.Germany), Maradona 1986 (Argentina); Cruijff 1974 (Netherlands); Muller 1970 (W.Germany), Eusebio (Portugal) 1966

    If Lizarazu would be the next left-back (he's on 7.88 for 1998 I noticed), and Trippier the next right-back (he's on 7.87 for 2018), Beckenbauer 1974 the next sweeper and Desailly 1998 the next centre-back (which it looks like - I used the ideal teams they made themselves to help with that) this would be the 2nd line-up:
    Hellstrom (Sweden) 1974; Beckenbauer (W.Germany); 1974; Trippier (England) 2018, Desailly (France) 1998, Lizarazu (France) 1998; B.Charlton (England) 1966, Beckenbauer (W.Germany) 1966, Rivelino (Brazil) 1970; Pele (Brazil) 1970; Jairzinho (Brazil) 1970, Kempes (Argentina) 1978

    That's if trying to squeeze in the top rated players as much as possible (and maybe in terms of role Jairzinho ahead of Pele even seems right, although Kempes ahead of Pele could also be questionable and bringing in Pirlo 2006, Hazard 2018 indeed and/or Careca 1986 feasible for a 4-2-3-1 or something).

    I thought you'd like the top two anyway Puck!

    Good idea to link their Twitter account. I was thinking they got the diagram wrong in terms of Neeskens at CF and Cruijff CM but actually (although he was very much a roaming CF verging on AM in all games anyway) given moving deep in an attempt to evade Vogts perhaps, maybe it's somewhat realistic in terms of average position as indicated by the heatmaps - with Neeskens seemingly spending a lot of time trying to get into the penalty area to try to score. Van Hanegem should be the left midfielder I'd say though, with Jansen centre or right (according to the heatmaps too).
     
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  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Probably I thought that with Muller joint 3rd in the list he should be in, but if I did go with 4-2-3-1 and Eusebio was considered a legitimate choice for main striker (in a way Maradona's position would be more suitable as left AM rather than left CM anyway) I guess Beckenbauer (1966) might in effect come in for Muller who would move to team 2 and be placed ahead of a midfield pair of Pirlo (2006) and Beckenbauer again (1970) plus an AM line of Jairzinho, Pele or Kempes, and Rivelino perhaps (but in a way Hazard is second in line as proper left AM and it's only putting Maradona in that place too that keeps him out of the second XI).

    That's if considering Charlton unsuitable for CM in the 4-2-3-1 given he was pretty much playing as AM a lot of the time if anything, and if thinking a 3rd version of Beckenbauer probably fits better than having Deyna in as a different player (he'd be seen as too similar to Pirlo and two playmakers who were helped by others in midfield in terms of running, tackling etc being put together might seem a stretch!).

    Not that it matters really, but that could have been the alternative way to present the XIs.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Nice work (as usual) PDG. :thumbsup:

    I am not following football a lot lately (for a number of reasons).

    Yes, I have always liked Eusebio as well and I remember I had him among the six best European players since television started (if eligible as European). At the moment I would make that group a bit larger but still think he isn't out of place in the 2nd tier of European players (1st tier is Cristiano + JC14 in my mind). Not that these ratings are perfect of course (but many magazine ratings even less so, no doubt about that).

    I did see Feyenoord winning against Lazio today (the 2nd half).

    It will be interesting to see how the TV ratings for Qatar will appear; most likely a dive, even if the team advances far (not likely to happen). That is the expectation at least (but not wildly shouted around).

    P.S. after my earlier 'complaint' (and there are genuine issues with how even a paper like FT reports stuff) I saw this comment later on so I was not entirely fair I suppose (but well, against this can be said, it makes a difference when the comparison group is South Africa, Spain and Paris; or Switzerland, New Zealand/Australia or Canada!) P.S.2 I have luckily dodged the increased gas prices so far! (national gas usage has been down with 35% this year, and the inflation is - on paper - bizarelly high). Very weird as well how that doesn't seem to bother foreign students for example (who usually don't have a surplus to spend). Some say there is an excess in capacity, beyond what is nationally required and necessary. P.S.3 nice stories today about Qatar spying in Switzerland and trying to find blackmail material about Australia :rolleyes:
     
  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks, yeah I remembered Eusebio was one of your favourites and that you were even advised to play like him when you were young by a football coach of yours (maybe I get that a bit wrong lol, but I think you told me something like that anyway!).

    I'm managing to focus a bit more on electricity usage (for heating water etc) and not pay much more than normal so far, but the winter will be the most expensive period I'm sure. I'll probably watch the World Cup quite extensively, but there are definitely many question marks about this one! On the football side of things I would think the expectations aren't particularly high for this one, but you never know - sometimes tournaments turn out to be more entertaining than anticipated or new stars emerge, old ones find some top form, some great goals are scored, some high scoring extra-time games occur etc....
     
  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #290 PDG1978, Nov 4, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
    I thought I'd have a go at adding a couple more 1966-2018 ladders, and that perhaps the most informative and/or interesting available would be successful dribbles per game and accurate long balls per game (although on the defensive side there is also interceptions and tackles that can be looked up).


    Successful dribbles per game (% success in brackets)
    Jairzinho 1970 - 7.8 (67%)
    Diego Maradona 1986 - 7.6 (59%)
    Sandro Mazzola 1974 - 7.3 (71%)
    Eden Hazard 2018 - 6.7 (77%)
    Lionel Messi 2014 - 6.6 (63%)
    Jay Jay Okocha 1994 - 6.3 (83%)
    Lionel Messi 2010 - 6.2 (69%)
    Jose Valencia 1978 - 6.0 (62%)
    Isco 2018 - 5.8 (74%)
    Lionel Messi 2018 - 5.8 (72%)
    Eusebio 1966 - 5.7 (65%)
    Gheorghe Hagi 1990 - 5.7 (55%)
    Diego Maradona 1982 - 5.6 (64%)
    Fernando Redondo 1994 - 5.5 (61%)
    Alexis Sanchez 2014 - 5.5 (65%)
    Mario Kempes 1978 - 5.4 (56%)
    Ivan Yaremchuk 1986 - 5.3 (59%)
    Oghenekaro Etebo 2018 - 5.3 (94%)
    Daniel Bertoni 1978 - 5.2 (61%)
    Dimitar Yakimov 1966 - 5.0 (71%)
    Ladislav Petras 1970 - 5.0 (60%)
    Jean Tigana 1982 - 5.0 (78%)
    Safet Susic 1982 - 5.0 (52%)
    Paul Gascoigne 1990 - 5.0 (54%)
    Ariel Ortega 1998 - 5.0 (56%)
    Angel Di Maria 2014 - 5.0 (71%)
    Johan Cruyff 1974 - 4.9 (62%)
    Arjen Robben 2014 - 4.9 (68%)
    Enzo Scifo 1994 - 4.8 (66%)
    Gustavo Muscoso 1982 - 4.7 (64%)
    John Robertson 1982 - 4.7 (61%)
    Magico Gonzalez 1982 - 4.7 (42%)
    Roberto Donadoni 1994 - 4.7 (72%)
    Jurgen Grabowski 1970 - 4.6 (74%)
    Reinhard Libuda 1970 - 4.6 (62%)
    Luis Cubilla 1970 - 4.6 (59%)
    Kylian Mbappe 2018 - 4.6 (60%)
    Terry Cooper 1970 - 4.5 (64%)
    Emmanuel Amunike 1994 - 4.5 (62%)
    Gerry Armstrong 1982 - 4.4 (55%)
    Dragan Stojkovic 1990 - 4.4 (67%)
    Krassimir Balakov 1994 - 4.4 (91%)
    Gheorghe Hagi 1994 - 4.4 (59%)
    Neymar 2018 - 4.4 (56%)
    Alan Ball 1966 - 4.3 (65%)
    Rafael Martin Vazquez 1990 - 4.3 (59%)
    Jay Jay Okocha 1998 - 4.3 (46%)
    Alexis Sanchez 2010 - 4.3 (71%)
    Miralem Pjanic 2014 - 4.3 (87%)
    Heung-Min Son 2014 - 4.3 (65%)

    I think that's an exact top 50 actually, but there are some caveats: all players included regardless of games played (at least if they were in the list on the site anyway), different styles of dribbling, definition of dribble etc. Interesting to see just below that cut-off for example Lozano also from 2018 with pretty much equal dribble stats to Beckenbauer 1970 (but different era, position, role etc of course), and Donadoni in 1990 also had a high percentage success for example, not too far below the cut-off.

    In that one Hazard did make top 4 (and top 3 without Mazzola who played less games in 1974) anyway!

    I'll follow with the accurate long balls (passes) one too....
     
    Gregoire1 and PuckVanHeel repped this.
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    The other thing that may be useful is converting the numbers into 'per 90 minutes' rather than per game (if it's true they aren't actually per 90 minutes already in effect, which I'd need to double check) but for now this would become the top 20 with the proviso of 5 games or more played I think (Grabowski only started one game so that could be a particular stretch still though maybe):
    Jairzinho 1970 - 7.8 (67%)
    Diego Maradona 1986 - 7.6 (59%)
    Eden Hazard 2018 - 6.7 (77%)
    Lionel Messi 2014 - 6.6 (63%)
    Lionel Messi 2010 - 6.2 (69%)
    Eusebio 1966 - 5.7 (65%)
    Diego Maradona 1982 - 5.6 (64%)
    Mario Kempes 1978 - 5.4 (56%)
    Daniel Bertoni 1978 - 5.2 (61%)
    Jean Tigana 1982 - 5.0 (78%)
    Paul Gascoigne 1990 - 5.0 (54%)
    Ariel Ortega 1998 - 5.0 (56%)
    Angel Di Maria 2014 - 5.0 (71%)
    Johan Cruyff 1974 - 4.9 (62%)
    Arjen Robben 2014 - 4.9 (68%)
    Roberto Donadoni 1994 - 4.7 (72%)
    Jurgen Grabowski 1970 - 4.6 (74%)
    Reinhard Libuda 1970 - 4.6 (62%)
    Luis Cubilla 1970 - 4.6 (59%)
    Kylian Mbappe 2018 - 4.6 (60%)

    Cruyff at (joint with Robben) number 14 I see Puck interestingly!

    Like I say maybe still could do with adjustment for extra-time periods....
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, Messi 2014 (with three lots of 120 minutes, and one game with 63 minutes) seems to be on 5.97 (or 6 rounded up) successful dribbles per 90 minutes for example (with 46 'successful dribbles' in total recorded).

    Hazard 2018 (with no extra-time and one game with 68 minutes), if counting 90 minutes per game if no extra-time which seems consistent for cross-year comparisons, seems to be on about 6.95 (7 rounded up) per 90 minutes (with 40 'successful dribbles' recorded, including 10 out of 10 attempts vs Brazil).
     
  18. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #293 PDG1978, Nov 4, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
    For successful dribbles per 90 minutes in single games the top few (32 I think in the end) seem to be this by the way (of course it's not to say Valencia would definitely complete 13 if he stayed on not to mention Denilson, and Gascoigne's figure for example is not, unless approximately by coincidence to the nearest whole number perhaps(?), the number of successful dribbles he was on before extra-time started, ditto Okocha - only factoring in those with 9 or more dribbles, except I added Laudrup's game vs Uruguay because he's on 8 without playing the full 90 minutes (and so added in the Waddle and Jesper Olsen entries too as they had the same number in less minutes played actually, and then went back and added in Jairzinho vs Peru, Bell vs W.Germany and Held vs Italy for 1970 on a similar basis) and nearly 9 dribbles per 90 minutes, so in theory some others who played relatively few minutes in a game could be in the list...but that would be misleading anyway possibly if they were (if there are any cases of that even anyway):

    Denilson vs Turkey 2002 - ~31.3 (89%) - 23 minutes played as sub (8 successful dribbles from 9 attempts!)
    Jose Valencia vs Hungary 1978 - ~13.4 (85%) - 74 minutes played
    Jairzinho vs Uruguay 1970 - 13 (87%)
    Eusebio vs Hungary 1966 - 12 (63%)
    Reinhard Libuda vs Bulgaria 1970 - 12 (71%)
    Johan Cruyff vs Sweden 1974 - 12 (67%)
    Sandro Mazzola vs Poland 1974 - 12 (75%)
    Diego Maradona vs England 1986 - 12 (63%)
    Jay Jay Okocha vs Italy 1994 - 11.25 (83%) - 120 minutes played
    Diego Maradona vs Hungary 1982 - 11 (85%)
    Jean Tigana vs Austria 1982 - 11 (92%)
    Lionel Messi vs Mexico 2010 - 11 (61%)
    Colin Bell vs W.Germany 1960 - 10.8 (55%) - 50 minutes played
    Jesper Olsen vs Spain 1986 - ~10.1 (89%) - 71 minutes played (the stats are pretty good on the whole for him that game, but obviously he had the one 'error led to goal' mistake so I guess that is dragging his Sofascore rating down a bit!)
    Jairzinho vs Romania 1970 - 10 (71%)
    Sigfried Held vs Italy 1970 - 10 (86%) - 54 minutes played
    Mario Kempes vs Poland 1978 - 10 (67%)
    Emmanuel Amunike vs Greece 1994 - 10 (67%)
    Diego Simeone vs Romania 1994 - 10 (67%)
    Joaquin vs Saudi Arabia 2006 - 10 (91%)
    Eden Hazard vs Brazil 2018 - 10 (100%)
    Eden Hazard vs France 2018 - 10 (91%)
    Paul Gascoigne vs Cameroon 1990 - 9.75 (76%) - 120 minutes played
    Jairzinho vs Czechoslovakia 1970 - 9 (69%)
    Jairzinho vs Peru 1970 - 9 (62%) - 80 minutes played
    Chris Waddle vs Portugal 1986 - 9 (89%) - 80 minutes played
    Diego Maradona vs Uruguay 1986 - 9 (69%)
    Gheorghe Hagi vs Argentina 1990 - 9 (60%)
    Diego Maradona vs Nigeria 1994 - 9 (56%)
    Son Heung-min vs Algeria 2014 - 9 (90%)
    Neymar vs Serbia 2018 - 9 (64%)
    Oghenekaro Etebo vs Croatia 2018 - 9 (100%)
    Michael Laudrup vs Uruguay 1986 - ~8.8 (57%) - 83 minutes played

    That deals with dribbles maybe now (I might calculate Tigana's per 90 minutes number for 1982 too though today as that's another obvious one that would change somewhat; moreso than Donadoni whose extra-time matches off quite closely timewise to games he played less than 90 minutes in for example). I'll still do that long balls/passes ladder though too - for interceptions and tackles over each tournament as a whole the info is basically provided by Gregoriak at the start of this thread I should have said before (for anyone that didn't know), as he posted various stats based on what was originally available on the OPTA widget I remember....

    EDIT: One thing I thought of as well, that I'm a bit unsure of is what happens when a 'dribble attempt' is met by a foul (successful dribble because/if the foul was needed to stop that or happens momentarily after it, unsuccessful dribble (which could be a bit misleading), or in effect no dribble attempt recorded, or maybe it varies a bit depending exactly what happens, and sometimes it's a case of the prospective dribble attempt being prevented before it happens at least?)....
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #294 PDG1978, Nov 4, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
    Tigana's number would become 5.64 per 90 minutes (he played 16 minutes once - no dribble attempts recorded in that one anyway, 83 minutes once, and 120 minutes including extra-time once too).

    Grabowski's number would go up among the top ones, but would be based on 50 something minutes per game.

    Kempes, Gascoigne, Di Maria, Robben all played some extra-time of course too (especially Gascoigne and Di Maria). That would reduce their per 90 minutes numbers somewhat.

    I thought Ortega could be worth calculating on a per 90 minutes basis also, but then I realised he played about 88 minutes per game when factoring in coming off early in the second half in one group game, playing one lot of extra-time and being sent off just before full-time in another game (that didn't go to extra-time in the end anyway, even though it was set too when the sending off happened, because Bergkamp scored to prevent it of course), so his number won't change much at all.

    EDIT - No, Di Maria played a little under 90 minutes per game in 2014 all in all, so his number wouldn't reduce, but instead slightly increase I should say, on a per 90 minutes basis.
     
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think Puck was saying that for players who played 7 games (needing a certain size and/or format of tournament) Maradona 1986 has the 3rd highest Sofascore average (and just very slightly behind Matthaus 1990, with Cruyff 1974 further ahead). I thought that was worth clarifying, in relation to that overall table I did.

    Hazard didn't play vs England in the group though so only played 6 games in 2018 (his average would have put him 6th in theory I make it in such a list, if he'd have played the 7 games and had another very good Sofascore rating vs England in that game, on par with his average overall).
     
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #296 PDG1978, Nov 4, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
    These are the top 57 for Accurate Long Balls per game between 1966 and 1986 (percentage accuracy in brackets again) - I'll aim for about a top 70 between 1990 and 2018 another time but there are generally higher numbers in that period so I thought I'd split things so that a decent number from the earlier times can be listed - as a spoiler though I can say that Xabi Alonso from 2006 and Ronald Koeman from 1994 have the most per game (Alonso 14.7, from only 3 games, but only playing 78 minutes per game so per 90 minutes it's higher even and he has an 86% accuracy; Koeman 14.2 per game/90 minutes from 5 full games with an 81% accuracy):

    Abdelmajid Dolmy 1986 - 10.8 (77%)
    Wolfgang Overath 1970 - 10.3 (81%)
    Mohamed Timoumi 1986 - 9.5 (86%)
    Franz Beckenbauer 1974 - 8.4 (83%)
    Kazimierz Deyna 1974 - 7.9 (85%)
    Salid Kaci 1986 - 7.3 (73%)
    Herbert Prohaska 1982 - 7.2 (86%)
    Fabio Capello 1974 - 7.0 (70%)
    Edhem Sljivo 1982 - 7.0 (81%)
    Mahboud Mubarek 1982 - 7.0 (62%)
    Ricardo Gallego 1986 - 7.0 (68%)
    Ruud Krol 1978 - 6.7 (51%) - significantly more volume but significantly less accuracy compared to 1974 (there are a few other cases of players with definitely better accuracy in one year compared to another too)
    Jaime Pacheco 1986 - 6.7 (87%)
    Daniel Passarella 1978 - 6.6 (70%)
    Ray Wilkins 1982 - 6.6 (73%)
    Volodymyr Bezsonov 1982 - 6.6 (87%)
    Wolfgang Overath 1974 - 6.4 (75%)
    Gilberto Yearwood 1982 - 6.3 (59%)
    Ludo Coeck 1982 - 6.2 (74%)
    Alemao 1986 - 6.2 (89%)
    Rivelino 1970 - 6.0 (86%)
    Hristo Bonev 1970 - 6.0 (90%)
    Carlos Babington 1974 - 6.0 (68%)
    Herbert Prohaska 1978 - 6.0 (72%)
    Michel Platini 1982 - 6.0 (79%) - he was on 93% accuracy for 1978 but with nearly one long pass per game less than the cut-off point I've gone with
    Uli Stielike 1982 - 6.0 (82%)
    Imre Garaba 1986 - 6.0 (78%)
    Franz Beckenbauer 1970 - 5.8 (85%)
    Bobby Moore 1970 - 5.8 (72%)
    Hector Chumpitaz 1978 - 5.8 (67%)
    Pichi Alonso 1982 - 5.8 (81%)
    Bobby Moore 1966 - 5.7 (81%)
    Wilfried van Moer 1970 - 5.7 (77%)
    Ladislav Kuna 1970 - 5.7 (85%)
    Arie Haan 1974 - 5.7 (65%)
    Francisco Valdes 1974 - 5.7 (63%)
    Waldemar Matysik 1986 - 5.7 (94%)
    Junior 1986 - 5.6 (85%)
    Bobby Charlton 1966 - 5.5 (70%)
    Michel Platini 1986 - 5.5 (70%)
    Antonio Di Gennaro 1986 - 5.5 (65%)
    Nelson Gutierrez 1986 - 5.5 (67%)
    Henryk Kasperczak 1974 - 5.4 (76%)
    Enzo Scifo 1986 - 5.4 (78%)
    Gabriel Nunez 1966 - 5.3 (43%)
    Kurt Axelsson 1970 - 5.3 (64%)
    Gerson 1970 - 5.3 (84%)
    Alan Mullery 1970 - 5.3 (75%)
    Hasan Nazari 1978 - 5.3 (55%)
    Walter Meeuws 1982 - 5.3 (81%)
    Roland Hattenberger 1982 - 5.3 (88%)
    Volodymyr Bezsonov 1986 - 5.3 (59%)
    Ghanim Oraibi 1986 - 5.3 (67%)
    Franky van der Elst 1986 - 5.3 (84%)
    Joszef Kardos 1986 - 5.3 (73%)
    Francisco Lopez 1986 - 5.3 (75%)
    Carlos Alberto 1970 - 5.2 (56%)

    That's not adjusting for minutes played or limiting entries based on games played (except where that means a player is not listed for the stat on the site - for example I noticed that Hoddle 1986 is slightly below the threshold I've gone with, but for 1982 would have been slightly above it, though he didn't have enough games to be listed which is 3 I think - his accuracy was higher for 1986 than 1982 though anyway, at close to 70% rather than a bit over 60%). Minutes played won't change things a huge amount in general I guess anyway (and it'd be too big a job given how many players I'm listing for this stat!).
     
  22. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #297 PDG1978, Nov 5, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
    Ok, these are the top 80 for Accurate Long Balls per game between 1990 and 2018 this time (which still only takes the cut-off down to 7.6 per game):

    Xabi Alonso 2006 - 14.7 (86%)
    Ronald Koeman 1994 - 14.2 (81%)
    Leonel Alvarez 1994 - 13.7 (91%)
    Jay Jay Okocha 2002 - 13.3 (75%)
    Constantin Galca 1998 - 11.5 (79%)
    Marc Vivien Foe 2002 - 11.0 (89%)
    Toni Kroos 2018 - 11.0 (92%)
    Rafael Marquez 2002 - 10.8 (66%)
    Felipe Melo 2010 - 10.8 (91%)
    Gary Medal 2014 - 10.8 (83%)
    Javier Mascherano 2014 - 10.6 (83%)
    Torsten Frings 2006 - 10.5 (83%)
    Klaus Augenthaler 1990 - 10.3 (84%)
    Stig Inge Bjornebye 1994 - 10.3 (54%)
    Dunga 1998 - 10.3 (74%)
    Bastian Schweinsteiger 2010 - 10.3 (86%)
    Ronald Koeman 1990 - 10.0 (63%)
    Lothar Matthaus 1998 - 10.0 (67%)
    Michael Ballack 2006 - 9.8 (82%)
    Lucas Neill 2006 - 9.8 (75%)
    Sergio Ramos 2018 - 9.8 (78%)
    Wim Jonk 1998 - 9.7 (83%)
    Sung-Yeung Ki 2014 - 9.7 (94%)
    Toni Kroos 2014 - 9.6 (84%)
    Steve Staunton 2002 - 9.5 (61%)
    Gianluca Pagliuca (goalkeeper) 1998 - 9.4 (41%)
    Xavi 2002 - 9.3 (97%) - only playing 40 mins per game in 3 games and starting one of them that year though (however that means the per 90 minutes number would be very high!)
    Justice Christopher 2002 - 9.3 (82%)
    Yaya Toure 2006 - 9.3 (88%)
    Muhamed Besic 2014 - 9.3 (90%)
    Dragan Stojkovic 1990 - 9.2 (73%)
    Stefan Schwarz 1994 - 9.2 (75%)
    Lothar Matthaus 1990 - 9.1 (82%)
    Wim Jonk 1994 - 9.0 (78%)
    Anatoliy Tymoshchuk 2006 - 9.0 (88%)
    Didier Zokora 2006 - 9.0 (82%)
    Xabi Alonso 2010 - 8.9 (76%)
    Gonzalo Jara 2014 - 8.8 (71%)
    Maniche 2006 - 8.7 (85%)
    Daniele De Rossi 2010 - 8.7 (62%)
    Waldo Ponce 2010 - 8.7 (84%)
    Andrea Pirlo 2006 - 8.6 (75%)
    Andreas Brehme 1990 - 8.3 (85%)
    Magnus Hedman (goalkeeper) 2002 - 8.3 (28%)
    Konstantinos Katsouranis 2010 - 8.3 (71%)
    Andrea Pirlo 2014 - 8.3 (86%)
    Ivan Rakitic 2014 - 8.3 (86%)
    Dunga 1994 - 8.1 (77%)
    Dunga 1990 - 8.0 (91%)
    Hong Myung-Bo 1994 - 8.0 (63%)
    Franky van der Elst 1994 - 8.0 (78%)
    Fernando Hierro 1998 - 8.0 (57%)
    Olaf Thon 1998 - 8.0 (80%)
    Paul Lambert 1998 - 8.0 (92%)
    Ruben Baraja 2002 - 8.0 (74%)
    Xavi 2010 - 8.0 (82%)
    Yaya Toure 2010 - 8.0 (92%)
    Sergey Ignashevich 2014 - 8.0 (73%)
    Young-Gwon Kim 2014 - 8.0 (69%)
    Joao Moutinho 2014 - 8.0 (83%)
    Vedran Corluka 2014 - 8.0 (80%)
    Enzo Scifo 1990 - 7.8 (69%)
    Stephane Demol 1990 - 7.8 (82%)
    Emmanuel Kunde 1990 - 7.8 (72%)
    Lothar Matthaus 1994 - 7.8 (74%)
    Sunday Oliseh 1994 - 7.8 (69%)
    Fernando Hierro 2002 - 7.8 (65%)
    Thomas Gravesen 2002 - 7.8 (79%)
    Javier Masherano 2010 - 7.8 (82%)
    Young Il-Choi 1990 - 7.7 (35%)
    Guillermo Amor 1998 - 7.7 (96%)
    Jay Jay Okocha 1998 - 7.7 (77%)
    Tugay 2002 - 7.7 (68%)
    Claudio Reyna 2006 - 7.7 (74%)
    Gerard Pique 2010 - 7.7 (70%)
    Christian Poulsen 2010 - 7.7 (70%)
    Nicolas N'Koulou 2010 - 7.7 (59%)
    David Luiz 2014 - 7.7 (59%)
    Frank Lampard 2006 - 7.6 (70%)
    Kyle Walker 2018 - 7.6 (63%)
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #298 PDG1978, Nov 11, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
    I thought one other thing that might be interesting to look at would be 'top 7 ratings' for various players (potentially more can be added to this morning's brainstorm) - to an extent it's take it with a pinch of salt because it relies on the results of the formula (placing value/weight on certain actions and stats), and like I said before for example I'd not be inclined towards Roberto Baggio's performance vs Nigeria being considerably higher (or higher at all even) than the one vs Spain from 1994 myself, and I don't see a big gap in favour of Maradona's South Korea performance over his Bulgaria one in 1986 (and in general I'd have the Bulgaria one higher in the hierarchy of his performances than a few that's it goes below on Sofascore I'm sure), I'd pick Pele's performance vs Czechoslovakia in 1970 clearly over his Italy one possibly too albeit I can understand the end product will and should to an extent show up favourably for the latter game anyway - but these are the scores anyway, with the average of the 7 shown at the bottom for each player too....

    (As an addition: Eusebio from 6 games in 1966 averages 8.8 of course, so in theory one more game with a 6.5 rating even would have had him up on about 8.47 over 7 games - he didn't play other World Cup games before 1966 though anyway; Andreas Brehme's 1990 average of 8.22 would be raised a bit by inclusion of a well-rated 1986 performance too I can mention also, so he'd be right up at the top end among defenders for 7 game Sofascore average although he played in a semi-midfield role in 1990 I suppose)

    Pele (from 1966 onwards of course)
    Italy 1970 - 9.3
    Romania 1970 - 8.9
    Bulgaria 1966 - 8.7
    Czechoslovakia 1970 - 8.7
    Uruguay 1970 - 8.3
    Peru 1970 - 7.8
    England 1970 - 7.0
    Average of top 7: 8.39

    Johan Cruyff (only from 1974 - for single tournament alone, as discussed, his average is above everyone's except Eusebio's and Eusebio played 6 games not 7)
    Bulgaria 1974 - 9.7
    Argentina 1974 - 9.5
    Sweden 1974 - 9.4
    Uruguay 1974 - 8.5
    Brazil 1974 - 8.3
    East Germany 1974 - 8.1
    West Germany 1974 - 7.7
    Average: 8.74

    Diego Maradona
    Hungary 1982 - 10
    Belgium 1986 - 10
    England 1986 - 9.6
    South Korea 1986 - 9.1
    Uruguay 1986 - 8.5
    Nigeria 1994 - 8.4
    Italy 1986 - 8.3
    Average: 9.13

    Franz Beckenbauer
    Switzerland 1966 - 10
    Uruguay 1966 - 8.8
    Bulgaria 1970 - 8.7
    England 1970 - 8.7
    Italy 1970 - 8.2
    Sweden 1974 - 8.1
    Poland 1974 - 8
    Average: 8.64

    Zinedine Zidane
    Brazil 1998 - 9
    Italy 1998 - 8.8
    Brazil 2006 - 8.5
    South Africa 1998 - 7.6
    Switzerland 2006 - 7.5
    Saudi Arabia 1998 - 7.4
    Portugal 2006 - 7.4
    Average: 8.03

    Zico
    New Zealand 1982 - 10
    Argentina 1982 - 8.4
    Sweden 1978 - 7.5
    Spain 1978 - 7.5
    Italy 1982 - 7.3
    Peru 1978 - 7.2
    Argentina 1978 or Scotland 1982 - both 7.1
    Average: 7.86

    Michel Platini
    Kuwait 1982 - 9.4
    Hungary 1978 - 8.4
    Brazil 1986 - 8
    Argentina 1978 - 7.9
    Italy 1986 - 7.9
    Czechoslovakia 1982 - 7.8
    West Germany 1982 - 7.8
    Average: 8.17

    Jairzinho
    Czechoslovakia 1970 - 9.3
    Zaire 1974 - 8.9
    Uruguay 1970 - 8.6
    Romania 1970 - 8.2
    Peru 1970 - 8.1
    Italy 1970 - 8.1
    Argentina 1974 - 7.9
    Average: 8.44

    Rivelino
    Peru 1970 - 9.5
    Argentina 1974 - 8.5
    Czechoslovakia 1970 - 8.3
    Italy 1970 - 8.1
    East Germany 1974 - 8.1
    Zaire 1974 - 8
    England 1970 - 7.9
    Average: 8.34

    Bobby Charlton (did play in 1962 too)
    Mexico 1966 - 9.5
    Portugal 1966 - 9.5
    Uruguay 1966 - 8.1
    France 1966 - 7.6
    West Germany 1974 - 7.4
    Argentina 1966 - 7.1
    West Germany 1966 - 7.1
    Average: 8.04

    Bobby Moore (did play in 1962 too)
    West Germany 1966 - 8.8
    France 1966 - 8.7
    Mexico 1966 - 8.1
    Uruguay 1966 - 7.8
    Czechoslovakia 1970 - 7.8
    Two from Romania 1970, Brazil 1970 and West Germany 1970 - all 7.7
    Average: 8.09

    Roberto Baggio
    Nigeria 1994 - 9.2
    Bulgaria 1994 - 8.4
    Chile 1998 - 8.4
    Czechoslovakia 1990 - 8
    England 1990 - 7.7
    Austria 1998 - 7.5
    Brazil 1994 - 7.3
    Average: 8.07

    Gheorghe Hagi
    Colombia 1994 - 9.4
    Argentina 1994 - 8.4
    Ireland 1990 - 8.1
    USA 1994 - 8
    Colombia 1998 - 7.8
    Tunisia 1998 - 7.7
    England 1998 - 7.6
    Average: 8.14

    Rivaldo
    Morocco 1998 - 8.6
    Denmark 1998 - 8.6
    Turkey 2002 - 8.2
    Belgium 2002 - 7.9
    Costa Rica 2002 - 7.8
    Turkey (semi-final) 2002 - 7.8
    China 2002 - 7.7
    Average: 8.09

    Ronaldo Nazario
    Japan 2006 - 9.1
    Chile 1998 - 9
    Costa Rica 2002 - 8.6
    Netherlands 1998 - 8.4
    Germany 2002 - 8.3
    Two from Morocco 1998, and the two games vs Turkey 2002 - all 8.1
    Average: 8.51

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Spain 2018 - 9.7
    North Korea 2010 - 9
    USA 2014 - 7.9
    Morocco 2018 - 7.9
    Iran 2006 - 7.8
    Iran 2018 - 7.3
    France 2006 - 7.2
    Average: 8.11

    Lionel Messi (excluding 15 minutes vs Serbia & Montenegro in 2006 but he did get an 8.8 Sofascore rating that time)
    Nigeria 2014 - 9.4
    Nigeria 2010 - 9.1
    Nigeria 2018 - 8.7
    Bosnia 2014 - 8.5
    Switzerland 2014 - 8.4
    Iran 2014 - 7.9
    Greece 2010 - 7.8
    Average: 8.54

    Mario Kempes
    Netherlands 1978 - 9.9
    Peru 1978 - 9.4
    Poland 1978 - 9.2
    Hungary 1982 - 8.3
    El Salvador 1982 - 7.9
    France 1978 - 7.8
    Hungary 1978 - 7.6
    Average: 8.59

    Paolo Rossi
    Brazil 1982 - 9.5
    Poland 1982 (semi-final) - 8.6
    France 1978 - 7.8
    Brazil 1978 - 7.7
    Hungary 1978 - 7.5
    Argentina 1978 - 7.4
    West Germany 1982 - 7.3
    Average: 7.97

    Gerd Muller
    Bulgaria 1970 - 9.5
    Peru 1970 - 9.4
    Italy 1970 - 9.1
    Sweden 1974 - 8.6
    Morocco 1970 - 8.2
    Australia 1974 - 8
    Poland 1974 - 7.6
    Average: 8.63

    Teofilo Cubillas
    Morocco 1970 - 10
    Iran 1978 - 10
    Scotland 1978 - 9.6
    Brazil 1970 - 7.6
    Bulgaria 1970 - 7
    Italy 1982 - 7
    West Germany 1970 or Poland 1982 - both 6.9
    Average: 8.3

    Ruud Krol
    Argentina 1974 - 8.5
    Uruguay 1974 - 8.1
    Iran 1978 - 8
    Peru 1978 - 7.9
    East Germany 1974 - 7.6
    Austria 1978 - 7.6
    West Germany 1978 or Italy 1978 - both 7.5
    Average: 7.89

    Paolo Maldini
    Brazil 1994 - 8.6
    Argentina 1990 - 8.2
    Norway 1998 - 8.2
    France 1998 - 7.9
    Bulgaria 1994 - 7.7
    England 1990 - 7.5
    One of Uruguay 1990, Ireland 1990 and Spain 1994 - all 7.4
    Average: 7.93

    Franco Baresi
    Austria 1990 - 8.3
    Czechoslovakia 1990 - 7.9
    USA 1990 - 7.7
    Uruguay 1990 - 7.7
    Ireland 1990 - 7.6
    England 1990 - 7.4
    Brazil 1994 - 7.4
    Average: 7.71

    Lilian Thuram
    Croatia 1998 - 9.3
    Saudi Arabia 1998 - 8.4
    Portugal 2006 - 8.3
    Brazil 1998 - 8.1
    Paraguay 1998 - 8
    Italy 1998 - 7.9
    Togo 2006 - 7.4
    Average: 8.2

    Osvaldo Ardiles
    France 1978 - 8.1
    Hungary 1982 - 8.1
    Italy 1978 - 7.8
    Poland 1978 - 7.8
    Hungary 1978 - 7.7
    El Salvador 1982 - 7.7
    Belgium 1982 - 7.5
    Average: 7.81

    Jurgen Klinsmann
    United Arab Emirates 1990 - 8.9
    South Korea 1994 - 8.7
    USA 1998 - 8.5
    Belgium 1994 - 8.3
    Netherlands 1990 - 8
    Spain 1994 - 7.8
    One from Yugoslavia 1990, Bolivia 1994, Iran 1998 and Mexico 1998 - all 7.4
    Average: 8.23

    Dennis Bergkamp
    South Korea 1998 - 8.6
    Argentina 1998 - 8.5
    Morocco 1994 - 8
    Yugoslavia 1998 - 7.8
    Belgium 1994 - 7.7
    Saudi Arabia 1994 - 7.6
    Brazil 1994 - 7.6
    Average: 7.97

    Pierre Littbarski
    France 1982 - 8.9
    Czechoslovakia 1990 - 8.1
    Spain 1982 - 8
    Colombia 1990 - 8
    Three from Algeria 1982, Chile 1982, United Arab Emirates 1990 and Netherlands 1990 - all 7.8
    Average: 8.06

    Lothar Matthaus
    Yugoslavia 1990 - 10
    Morocco 1986 - 8.9
    United Arab Emirates 1990 - 8.8
    Czechoslovakia 1990 - 8.5
    Bulgaria 1994 - 8.2
    Iran 1998 - 8.2
    England 1990 - 8.1
    Average: 8.67

    Michael Laudrup
    Uruguay 1986 - 8.8
    Nigeria 1998 - 8.3
    Scotland 1986 - 7.5
    Saudi Arabia 1998 - 7.3
    Brazil 1998 - 7.3
    France 1998 - 7.1
    South Africa 1998 - 6.9
    Average: 7.6

    Socrates
    USSR 1982 - 7.9
    Spain 1986 - 7.8
    Italy 1982 - 7.7
    Poland 1986 - 7.5
    France 1986 - 7.4
    Algeria 1986 - 7.3
    New Zealand 1982 - 7.2
    Average: 7.54

    Rob Rensenbrink
    Iran 1978 - 9.7
    Austria 1978 - 9.7
    Uruguay 1974 - 8.2
    East Germany 1974 - 7.8
    Argentina 1978 - 7.4
    Two from Bulgaria 1974, Peru 1978, West Germany 1978 and Italy 1978 - all 7.2
    Average: 8.17

    Johnny Rep
    Uruguay 1974 - 9.1
    Austria 1978 - 8.6
    Argentina 1974 - 8.4
    Iran 1978 - 8.1
    Scotland 1978 - 8.1
    Bulgaria 1974 - 7.3
    Either Sweden 1974 or East Germany 1974 - both 7.2
    Average: 8.11
     
    msioux75, Gregoire1 and Buyo repped this.
  24. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Pelé vs Mexico 62, France 58 and Sweden 58 were likely 10 ratings, so this miss out his best matches (at least in terms of Sofascore ratings). Garrincha will make the list as well. If they were 10 ratings and Pelé vs Wales or USRR aren't above 8.7, then Pele's ratings would be 9.37.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, fair point - actually there is no reason why OPTA/Sofascore couldn't make ratings for Pele vs Mexico 62, France 58, Sweden 58 - it'd be interesting to see them but I'd expect pretty high ones anyway (hard to say 10 for sure but feasible there could be 10s to add for him potentially yep).

    I thought I'd quickly (before Formula 1 qualifying, in Brazil of course) add in Eden Hazard and Xavi anyway now:

    Eden Hazard
    Tunisia 2018 - 9
    Japan 2018 - 8.4
    Brazil 2018 - 7.9
    France 2018 - 7.9
    England 2018 - 7.9
    Algeria 2014 - 7.8
    Russia 2014 or Panama 2018 - both 7.6
    Average: 8.07

    Xavi
    Netherlands 2010 - 8.7
    Switzerland 2010 - 8.4
    Tunisia 2006 - 8.3
    South Africa 2002 - 8.2
    Ukraine 2006 - 8.2
    Portugal 2010 - 8.1
    Germany 2010 - 8
    Average: 8.27
     

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