World Cup Final: France vs Croatia, July 15 [R]

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018 - Knockout Rounds' started by Edwardinho, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. verde-rubro

    verde-rubro Member+

    C.S.Maritimo + Liverpool FC
    Portugal
    Jan 15, 2005
    LONDON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-some-of-my-best-friends-are-germans-1156270.html

    Klinsmann and Berti Vogts both publicly acknowledge it was wrong decision to send him off and Portugal were outstanding and fully deserved the win. Portugal won all the remaining matches in the qualifier, but so did Germany, so, this decision kept Portugal out of France 98. Rui Costa was in Germany's area when his number came up to be subbed. It took exactly 20 seconds from that and the sending off. He didn't run, he wasn't slow either, he went out like any player would does. he run his socks off in that game and was being subbed by a very fast and tricky Sérgio Conceição, we were going to go for the 2nd goal, Germany were leaving gaps at the back trying to get the on level terms (Sérgio Conceição in 2000 with a hat-rick against Germany)
     
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  2. jeanmarc

    jeanmarc Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Aug 7, 2009
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I agree, what happened in 1982 should give us a free pass for anything we try to pull anyway.

    And btw, Zidane's red after his headbutt in 2006 was the first actual use of the VAR in a WC 12 years early. None of the refs had seen it happen live.
     
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  3. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Francisco North Bay, Bel Marin Keys
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Not sure if serious. Why should Croatia (or any team) in 2018 have to pay for something that happened 36 years earlier, and had nothing to do with them?
     
  4. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #954 tudobem62014, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    Only God knows ...

    Ask that to black and white Americans lol.

    Why did native Americans take the brunt of the blood lust created by Muslim Christian conflicts in the Iberian Peninsula in the 1400’s.

    The conquistadors were out for blood having just pushed the Muslims from their lands.

    That’s how we got Latin America and eventually a Europe South America Championship and finally a World Cup.

    There’s no cause and effect it’s just random lol
     
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  5. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Conquistadores developed the future of the world...we all got out from the dark Middle Ages in that 15th century. Netherlands, Great Britain, France, Spain, Portugal used wisely their influence.
    My friends from colonial countries still feel sorry that they lost all possessions. Many of them still have nice memories from Macao, Indonesia, Angola.
     
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  6. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Francisco North Bay, Bel Marin Keys
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    What are you even talking about?

    It was an incident in a football match in 1982. There is no connection between what happened with Schumacher and Battiston, and systematic racial oppression that occurred across centuries.
     
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  7. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Ur right.

    But your thought what does Croatia have to do with anything that happened decades ago sounded like the argument from an american social studies class why present day American people from the majority race have to pay for the transgressions of racism of their ancestors they have absolutely no connection to.

    France feels like they are owed something from the soccer world that was stolen from them 36 years ago. Like African Americans and slavery. In both situations no one knows who should pay for the transgression from years ago. Clearly they took a loss, but who should pay?

    If anything Germany should pay that back and they did in Euro 2016. Schweinsteger and that awkward handball...

    I wonder what Spain was trying to payback to Russia with Pique’s awkward handball lol
     
  8. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Francisco North Bay, Bel Marin Keys
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Wow, the two cases are completely unrelated, for the simple fact that unlike the modern-day Americans and their ancestors' misdeeds, Croatia has no connection at all to something a German did 36 years ago.

    Probably best to just drop it.
     
  9. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    West Germany should have been made to pay that debt back in 1986, when the two teams met again in the semifinal just 4 years later. It did not happen.
     
  10. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    VAR is a nice fog only. They could use big TV screen above their heads much earlier, rewind and replay. Majority of things could be solved just with that TV screen. It served only for the footballers and their haircuts, also for the fans, who would "provoke" the camera, so that they see themselves in that screen.

    Now we have more than 6,7 referees and they still make mistakes. Also, we had referee close to the goal, so that he can see fouls in 16 m space, the goal line...failed experiment obviously.

    Until 1994, I trusted that football is only the matter of quality, that only best players really play in every club, after that you ask yourself: OK, how can he play? I know at least 10 people who play better than him. Before they said: Referee missed it, he could not see well, he was covered. After that you ask: So they hire referees with vision problems.:D

    Easy group opponents for some teams, NT, club level...why do we need to see Real Madrid - Barcelona in final? Last several years, it's aimed that we always see them. They can't meet in quarter-final or semi-final? If Barcelona had won against Roma, Barcelona would meet Liverpool, the rest we all know.

    From 2012 until 2018 the knock out stage always placed Real Madrid and Barcelona so that they can't meet each other before the final match.

    Only in 2011 year, they met in semi-finals. Back then, English clubs were much more in the focus: Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool.

    In 2010 Real was weaker, they lost against Lyon in Round of 16. They aimed that Bayern and Barcelona play in the final. Earlier, English clubs had more attention, sometimes Bayern and Inter with Mourinho. So, finalists are picked through criteria of attraction, media coverage, how many strong personalities clubs have. We see created conflicts: Mourinho - Wenger, only Alex Ferguson was widely respected. They needed, because his influence was too big.

    Now some others became interesting: Simeone, Klopp. Mourinho is out of the picture, just like Guardiola in few years.

    That's why it's funny to see the words of morality and justice.:D

    There are too many players who dive, if they get what they wanted, they feel proud, fans accept this...and that player becomes the legend, nice trickster, actor, for the sake of the team...

    In Germany they don't like Werner from Leipzig, because he dived once. But I think it's because Leipzig is from ex-DDR, the club got financial push, also excellent stadium they got for the WC 2006. It was planned that this club goes up.

    If we want to hope to see some justice and moral, football must be excluded from betting stores and their offers. But this is impossible.:D That's why we see irrational yellow and red cards...because this is in the offer. It's not the matter of passion and struggle for the ball.

    Just observe one strong European club, who had excellent supporting background through different instances, after that support, the club is not even near to the top 4 clubs in the league. Matter of interests, power...no matter if club has strong football reputation and historic meaning. You can get the attention through abnormal amount of money or through different social instances. It's not the matter of one nice generation and talent. This is maybe 60%. Other 40% is just influence.

    Observe some interesting results in this first qualifying round.:D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_UEFA_Champions_League

    Some clubs who needed to win at least 5-0, they had 0-0 against much weaker teams. But it's summer, no one follows anything until the September.:D
    Also, 4-0 in first leg, after that 5-0 in second leg.:cool: Inspiration.:cool:

    Now we could see Real, PSG, Manchester City, Manchester United, Barcelona, Liverpool, Juventus in much higher focus. Especially, Juventus - Barcelona. Messi - Ronaldo. Maybe Marcelo could end in Juventus, so there are no longer interesting charismatic figures in Real.
     
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  11. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nice points!
     
  12. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member+

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #962 Metropolitan, Jul 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
    Trevor Noah denied the fact our players could be French because "we can't get that tan in the South of France". For anyone knowing a bit about French population diversity, such a "joke" is awfully racist.

    Let's assume someone would say "yeah, we have to call those basketball players American, but you can't get that tan in Long Island". How would you take it?

    Apparently, the dude also labelled Australian aboriginals as "the ugly race" and pointed out that "behind every rapper there is a jew twice richer". I don't understand how the guy hasn't been fired yet.
     
  13. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I never knew about this person. His biography is here.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Noah

    Since he is an comedian, he also makes fun with his ancestry. He is also of partial African ancestry. Makes no sense, why would be seriously treated French players in an negative way??
    I don't think that he is serious about that. All those things that you wrote Metropolitan, are connected with him personally, through origins.

    I watched many comedians, they collect popularity with jokes about sensitive themes. You can't make anything with jokes about the butter and pineapple. Or maybe someone can?;)

    His comedy had influence with Pryor, Bill Cosby, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Chappelle...if he is really that kind of person, these persons wouldn't have anything with him, they all probably know each other.

    I think that he is just creating flames with delicate themes. He is making fun with many stereotypes around the world.
     
  14. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member+

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    If you can't see how racist it is to deny we can be both French and black, then the discussion doesn't need to go any further.

    Let's get back to football.
     
  15. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member+

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    For what it matters, I do believe that over the past decade, football has evolved allowing much faster counter-attacks.

    It's not just about pure physical speed, it's about the ability to take the ball from the opponent and instantly send it to a forward and also the technical ability to control the ball in keeping its momentum in order to start a full-speed race with the ball in the feet. Both France and Belgium severely damaged their opponents with their abitliy to launch such super fast counters.

    It's been 30 years I follow football now and I don't think I've ever seen a team able to counter as fast as France or Belgium in the past.
     
  16. artielange84

    artielange84 Member+

    Aug 7, 2014
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    He tells jokes for a living

    Gtfo with this BS
     
  17. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wasn't being critical of the black French players. Rather he was making a joke about a country that is 85% white and 14% black/African having a national team that was... not in that percentage. Granted, it's odd considering if you look at the NBA and NFL and there is a significantly higher percentage of blacks in those leagues than the US population so.. *shrug*
     
  18. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member+

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    A nice compilation of Kylian Mbappé during the 2018 world cup.

     
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  19. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Racism is for sure human weakness, which has obvious psychological influences.
    I remembered some other comedians - actors, like Ali G, Seinfeld, Ray Romano, they all made jokes about racial questions, ethnic and religious relations. And many other comedians.

    Who is the cab driver in sitcoms? It's always someone from Asia...
    Even popular cartoon TV show which lasted 2,3 decades, maybe still lasts, they also had migration provocations, religious and ethnic dialogues.
    One very popular sitcom in 90's, they had homophobic statements, I never saw any African-American, Asian who had some important, main role. In that sitcom, women were considered as objects. You probably know which sitcom I mentioned.
    Also, one TV show from 90's, not sitcom, also didn't include main roles with African-American, Asian characters. Later, they included several people of Mexican ancestry.
    One sitcom from 2000's also had homophobic, racial, ethnic, religious provocations...they presented Christianity in a bad way, imagine what happened with other religions.
    But I don't think that actors in sitcoms really have racial problems. These things are much more present in other occupations: science, sports, journalism, etc.
     
  20. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Europeans or European-Americans are weaker players in NBA, African-Americans have basketball attraction. In 50's, 60's I doubt that African-Americans played in NBA...maybe I am wrong.
     
  21. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member+

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #971 Metropolitan, Jul 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    Well, you cannot know, but that joke about the French national teams being African and not French has been done 30 years ago by the French far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen. And already back then, he was using the "tan" of the players as a way to prove his point.

    The thing people may not know in foreign countries is that France is a country of immigration since the 19th century. We are actually pretty diverse and the French team has always reflected that. The first black player to join the French national team was Raoul Diagne in 1931. French people are actually very attached to the national team as representative of the values which have founded our republic. Sorry for answering so seriously, but there are deep, fundamental, reasons explaining why French people reacted this way.
     
  22. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Just like I said earlier. When someone says something racial from sphere of usual occupations, like media, politics, sports, science, this is much serious issue and has the weight that might influence on society in one negative way.

    I noticed also many politicians, who wander from the far-left, to the far-right ideas in political way, from democracy to conservative thoughts. In Eastern Europe, from the leftist, socialist thoughts to the capitalist, conservative ideas.

    But when politicians use such tones, this might be considered as their belief. This influences on people. On the other hand, I have never heard about this comedian, who said such words.

    It's also funny when someone says, I am conservative, deeply religious person with 2-3 marriages, divorces. There are many politicians who came out of one-party systems, one mind, one idea...but today they are progressive liberals. They switch sides often, change their ideas. The daughter of Le Pen is against migrations for example, but her husband, or domestic partner is from Algeria. With two earlier divorces...I guess conservative with strong religious and traditional background.:D

    I also can name scientists who opposed religious ideas, now they write essays about the God and the creation of the world. People change their beliefs, depending on what kind of financial benefit they might get.
     
  23. First9Brinsi

    First9Brinsi New Member

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Jul 26, 2018
    congraturations France
     
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  24. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I agree with this post.
     
  25. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Yes, congratulations France. They won the World Cup because once again, as in 1998, they were the best team.
     
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