Agreed completely on Garcia and Nation. They are way down the pecking order if FIFA wants to elevate a reserve to a whistle. Even if it needs to be a CONCACAF ref for some reason, Calderon is right there. But I do think FIFA will wind up using the reserves in some places. I mean, until the 11th-hour addition of Hernandez's second AR, FIFA didn't even have enough main referees to cover all 72 group stage matches with two matches per referee. And that's not even considering the possibility of injuries, poor performances, etc. And also not considering the Round of 32 which immediately follows the group stage without a break. If they really plan to keep it to just these 36 referees, they better hope absolutely nothing goes wrong. I think Claus (and, to a lesser extent, Herrera) is relatively likely to wind up with some whistle. It would be very easy and natural to appoint him with compatriot ARs. Whether it's injuries, poor performances, or just the fact that FIFA would rather have a trusted, experienced referee, who's been through the whole process twice, officiate an important MD2 or MD3 game than someone like Atcho, Al-Jassim, Tantashev, Tejera, Martinez, Benitez, perhaps even Hernandez, etc. etc. etc.
I agree wiht you @MassachusettsRef . the trios are who FIFA wants refereeing, and they chose in their mind the best people to do it (although I have my reservations about at least 2 of those choices...). I also agree w your reasoning of why Nation and Garcia are both there. The reserves were not good enough to bring their trios. I also agree that FIFA does not have some secret plan to use them. I agree with baisically everything you wrote. With that said, i still think there is a path for a reserve to get a whistle based on factors. Not a lock, not a plan, but a path. Like you said its a massive tournament. A lot can happen, including coversations in stadiums and fall out from other assignments. Things that are not planned for. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be suprised if the logic that got Nation and Garcia there as reserves continues down stream. As I said, crazier things have happened. Didn't Jair go without an AR to Russia or wherever and steal one of Aguilar's, so that Canada could have Fletcher work with Geiger, or some crazy calculus like that? That might have been more planned for, and I'm not saying this is the same thing, but that possibilities are there, even ones that are not planned for.
Given the group stage lasts longer, I just think the answer here is that a few referees are going to get 3 matches, rather than introduce a reserve in the consequential MD3 tilts. Claus feels the most likely, I agree, but I think injury is the most likely path here, which isn't predictable. Because again, even with Claus, if there's an intent to have him referee, it's so easy to just send his whole trio.
I think FIFA know they are humiliating Claus but, because they are taking Herrera as a reserve and have to treat both Argentina and Brazil the same, they have no choice. The 'mistake' they made here is cutting Edina Alves Batista from the preselection process, and so the only Brazilian they could take as a no3 was Claus. The important person behind the scenes, Wilson Seneme, apparently likes Sampaio and Abatti but not Claus. It is not a coincidence that he was given the Copa America final under the charge of a different refereeing politician, Caceres of Paraguay. Claus makes World Cup history as only the second referee ever to be a main referee at one tournament and then being selected later as a reserve. Can anyone name the first? This isn't quite right (but you were along the right lines). I checked the marks I did with a friend for the last World Cup and we scored Claus's linesmen as good for both matches they did - in one match, we scored one assistant as very good (Danilo Simon in Canada-Morocco). Claus was hurt by the VAR-ing of his first game, England-Iran, which FIFA were very unhappy with. They rejected the Uruguayan VAR of that match (Leodan Gonzalez) because he dealt with two penalty area holding incidents inconsistently - basically, he should have intervened in the third minute to award a penalty for England but with it being so early in the match, and also the tournament, he lost his nerve. Later, he intervened to recommend an Iran penalty which was less clear cut than the earlier incident. You can see in the appointments that Gonzalez didn't work another game as lead VAR after that. But all is now forgiven though! Leodan Gonzalez is one of the thirty VMOs who FIFA have chosen for the next World Cup. Completely agree with this. To carry on the same topic we're speaking about: if Abatti really messes up his first match, I guess Claus would take his place and take a match as main referee (this happened in the last Women's WC with one UEFA crew). But otherwise... Edit: to add, there are sixteen reserve referees (and sixteen venues in the tournament) and there are thirty-six main referees, in a competition with seventy-two group games (72 divided by 2 is 36). There is clear login in what FIFA are doing and the idea that en mass, reserve referees will start picking up main appointments seems rather off the mark to me. Absolutely. I actually quite like Kawana as a personal opinion, because he is the kind of referee who just gives what is in front of him and doesn't try to over-manage his games, but visually he just looks way too amateur in a way that Conger and even Zitouni simply did not. The thing I always think when I watch his games is "would he be SG2 or League1/2 in England?", which should actually say enough. It was quite a nice novelty to have OFC officials in some past WCs but the truth is that since Australia left, the matches that the NZ refs did in 2010, 2014, 2018 and 2022 were all more-or-less a disaster. The reason there is no crew with NZ ref, NZ linesman 1, Pacific Islands linesman 2 this time is obviously that Infantino has done his maths and concluded he doesn't need the OFC votes anymore. I would have been quite happy for Kawana to do a game personally but the truth is that it is simply a good thing that there is no token Oceania ref this time. Finally: I have it on good authority that FIFA are actually very worried about the number of injuries that their top referee(s) are encountering at the moment!
Well, if that's the argument, sure. There's always a path. I guess my point or quibble here is that I think there is a plan not to use the reserves unless circumstances warrant. Maybe you're not saying this, but I'm reading elsewhere that people think there is a plan to do it, which just seems so obviously false to me that I then get into rant mode! @coreyrock could remind us more about this. But not quite. Fletcher was always in Geiger's trio. Marrufo had actually fallen off the candidate list for the World Cup and then went to the U17 in India and found his way into being selected. He looked like a reserve as he only got one AR (Corey; Frank Anderson got shut out) but the manner of his selection and the fact that he had been in the mix before made it seem like he was more than a reserve, which just didn't know until he actually got a whistle. If there is a somewhat analogous case, I guess it would be Claus here? But the advent of more reserves (there are so many this time!) just makes me think it's all different.
To preempt Corey who I’m sure will eventually see your comment, Frank Anderson was Geiger’s AR2 for the whole 2018 tournament (Sean Hurd had, I believe, retired at least from international duty by this point). Not sure who Jair’s would-be-AR2 would’ve been. Maybe Manikowski?
I was thinking of this when the appointments were made. Over the last two years I've been present in person at three matches where a referee had to be replaced. Prior to this, I'm not sure I saw it on TV or even heard of it. This is the other side of increasing fitness standards for referees to approach those of the players. High performance athletes get injured frequently. Over the last 30 years the standards have increased from "keep up with play, don't get in the way and don't hurt yourself" to something much closer to what a professional player does. It's not surprising to me that referees are seeing a lot more injuries than before and I'm comfortable saying this will play a role in assigning during the upcoming World Cup
Thanks. I definitely got that wrong, but your explanation does skip over something important, though. And there's an interesting origin story, too. Hurd ended up with Geiger in 2014 only because Wienckowski couldn't take the time off work to go to the U20 World Cup in 2011. Look back at the CONCACAF U20 championship that summer that led to Geiger's selection for the U20WC; he was with Wienckowski. But Wienckowski couldn't do both tournaments and keep his job, so Hurd stepped in and that started the chain reaction with Hurd going to WC14 when, I think most would say, he was far from our top AR at the time. Anyway... Hurd retires and Geiger gets him replaced with Morgante, who he is close with. But Morgante rubs FIFA the wrong way and doesn't perform at Confed Cup. FIFA demands a switch. So Frank Anderson swaps in late. For example, Morgante is on early WCQs with Geiger but Frank Anderson is on later ones, including the intercontinental tournament. Frank Anderson wasn't the plan until August 2017 or so. Frank Anderson then went with Marrufo and Rockwell to India that fall for the U17s, but in hindsight it was to get him FIFA tournament experience (which, otherwise, I believe he would not have had prior to WC18). Anyway, with all that throat clearing... I'm pretty sure Ian Anderson was Marrufo's prospective second AR. I seem to recall feeling for Ian that his twin brother got there but he didn't (when obviously he absolutely could have, if Jair was given a full trio). And I think that's what caused my mistake that you corrected above.
Yes, I think you got to it that it was just me and Jair together. My theory (which I have spoken to ref groups about in more detail) is we went penciled in as reserves, but Jair was absolutely lights out in every training session and stellar in the classroom (gave perfect answers to clips every time they put a microphone in his face) where he was impossible to ignore and they had to find a game to slot him/us in. Jair then absolutely nailed his only whistle (Belgium vs Tunisia), which I would argue was a Top 5 performance in the group stage (though I'm biased), and I think this was unexpected as well. My other theory is that performance directly paved his path to lead the first ever all-USA on-field crew on a FIFA final at the 2018 Club World Cup a few months later (where Frank was the other AR and Geiger was AVAR). And finally, what an amazing time for the US Soccer Referee program, sending 8, and for Canada Soccer Association, sending a trio for the first time to a Men's World Cup. So excited for these well-deserved men and women.
The #2 NZ FIFA referee is a former NTX referee who was the one telling me he'd still be a Regional if he were still living in NTX. He's been on the list for 3 years already. LOL
@Mikael_Referee, wasn't there a young Ethiopian referee who was a favorite at AFCON 2023? Or am I thinking he's Ethiopian and it's actually the Somali referee who's a reserve this time around?
Can you speak to how the U17 appointment came off in the first place? Jair wasn’t officially on the candidate list and then all of a sudden you guys were in India. I’m imagining it was less sudden than that in reality.
I was ill this past year so I am not paying close attention to the US referees most likely to be selected. Can someone advise who is on the short list?
We were told to, "be ready and block the dates" well in advance but it was not official for U17 as behind the scenes work was going on. I think it was full credit to Biran Hall doing a ton of behind the scenes work to get us slotted in there and we were likely the last crew in.
The selections have already been made. There are multiple American crews and a Canadian crew from MLS, plus two American VARs. USA Crew #1: Ismail Elfath, Corey Parker, Kyle Atkins. They have a chance to go far at this tournament. The Round of 16 would be a “baseline” expectation, as that’s what they got in 2022. There’s some who say they have a good shot at getting the Final. Crew #2: Tori Penso, Brooke Mayo, Kathryn Nesbitt. Canadian Crew: Drew Fischer, Michael Barwegan, Lyes Arfa. The US is also sending Armando Villarreal and Joe Dickerson as VARs.
not sure if this belongs here or another thread but it seemed the most relevant place https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cdxdxxdnj9eo
https://www.thetimes.com/sport/foot...red-cards-players-cover-mouths-fifa-l5vzmnczj Good luck with this VARs and referees.
So, they closed the ANC loophole? You can protest on paper but if the team starts walking off you start handing out reds until you get below the minimum and thats the end of it. No coming back out later. Its like walking off and forfeiting actually means forfeiting.