World Cup 2014 preparations

Thank you. Source?

 

No actually I`ve been on leave working on a project and just come back. You have lost all credibility and you really are a sell out and all the other things you called yourself on my behalf. Psychologists call that a `Freudian Slip`. Check mate LOL!!!

 

Brincadeira vc, nao tem virgonha de beija bunda dos gringos.

 

I totally agree with this, thank God we have some Brasileiros who actually give us credit: from being a third world no hope country 20 years ago to a hugely successful one now, threatening the dominance of Europe and USA. Yes we have teething troubles but this doesnt justify the barrage of criticisms from people who actually fear our emergence. I also condemn the violence and destruction, the same taxpayers they claim to be speaking for have to pay for the repairs!

 

Your opinion is fair enough but doesnt change my stance at all.
The difference between ex-pat Brasilians and ex-pat Americanos or Brits etc is that the other countries will criticise their own country non-stop when they are at home, but when they are abroad they will go mental if anyone says anything negative about their homeland or their people. Brasilians seem to be overwhelmingly non-supportive of their kinfolk and their countries, treacherous in fact, and the impression I get from the Brasilians in London is that they genuinely dislike their country and countrymen. They think because they have got some pissy job in a bar, restaurant, cleaning, handing out leaflets at the train station or whatever, on a minimum wage, that they have somehow `made it big` and are better than those pesky Brasilians at home.
For me it is like a family situation, when I am at home I will complain about my wife`s spending habits or my kids spending too much time on the playstation etc but when I shut the front door if anyone criticises my family outside my house then they are in for a smack in the mouth.

 

You didn't pick up any real arguments while you were away.

 

And your Portuguese leaves much to be desired.

 

Mané Garrincha stadium was delivered for use 1 year ago. Yet there are areas around it that aren't even paved. And we're less than 30 days away from the tournament's start.

It is very embarrassing indeed.

 

This is something that I've seen in the United States as well, and if you'll agree to a serious exchange for one moment, let's discuss this behavior.

There are many such Brazilians here in the northeastern United States who fit the description you provided. Most tend to be undocumented. But once they get a steady job (even if under the table, meaning, paying no taxes and therefore officially not part of the job market), they are able over time to start building a nice little life here. It doesn't mean they'll be living in $500,000 houses or driving BMWs or Lexus vehicles, but they'll be lower-middle class and maybe even middle-class.

For them, it's a "desabafo" - a way of venting. They have at long last achieved a modicum of stability, with their hard work yielding wages and their wages providing them with a standard of living which to them is acceptable and respectable. This is surely achievable in Brazil as well, but if these immigrants who take up humble jobs in America had been able to accomplish such a lifestyle back in Brazil, they probably wouldn't have left.

And this is precisely why they often say they never want to go back to Brazil (to live, not to visit). They have families there; they're proud of their roots; they do miss it. But they know that the stability they are experiencing here (or in London) wasn't the norm in Brazil, and they don't want to lose what they now have, especially if they're here (or in the UK) illegally and got to where they are through a very perilous journey.

Now, do they think they're better than the Brazilians who didn't immigrate? Some of them surely do, and I too find it a silly attitude. It's what I would call a "rich peasant" mentality - they may have now attained a level of income and wealth considerably superior to those which their relatives and friends back in Brazil have, but they think that success (whatever their definition thereof) justifies arrogance and condescension towards others.

Mind you, Jiripoca, I've met plenty of Brazilians who were educated, with college and graduate degrees, who were or are still here working in large companies, living in posh NYC apartments w/ rent paid or with salaries generous enough that they can afford living in NYC and to live the life here. These people, strangely enough, never act arrogantly (at least the ones I met). They know they have solid resumes, that they speak English and other languages fluently, and that they have the means to work with and for Americans, Europeans, Asians, etc., in white-collar settings. And why would they thumb their noses at working-class or below-working-class people who are in Brazil? The rich, successful, capable, smart, and talented know they are all that, and needn't show off. Their track records speak loudly enough. They have no reason to be insecure.

That's not the case w/ the Brazilians in London and in the northeastern US whom both you and I saw, respectively. They think they need to "prove" something, and putting Brazilians in Brazil down, I dare say, is a psychological act through which they tell THEMSELVES they are no longer the poor, unsuccessful, "gentinha" they once were (or they thought they were, because they had very little in Brazil) - before they moved to the United States or to England.

 

Well Century, I think we may have found some common ground after all the bickering. And my `Portuguese` may not be that good, I`ve lived in England from the age of 2 and English is the language I think and dream in, so Brasilian ( i refuse to call it portuguese) is like a foreign language.
I just feel that firing a barrage of criticism at Brasil and Brasilians is not something Americans or Brits would do if they were abroad and talking about their own country, and doing so does not do them (Brasilians) any credit at all. This is the crux of the matter, the low class ex-pat Brasilians are the most hyper-critical about their own country, yet they could have been a cleaner / Barman / Waiter / shoeshine boy in their own country, but they do the same jobs abroad and act like they are a superior class and never defend Brasil.
And finally I do think great countries never became great countries without their people taking pride in their achivements and playing down their failures - yes UK and USA have become great, but they did it on the back of colonialism and slavery. Our organisation and last minute tendencies are failures, but we should focus on the positives.

 

One can only truly be positively and constructively critical if they know a different method/style/standard.

Brazilians in Brazil who have never left have ideas of how things are done outside Brazil. Those who visit other countries notice such differences (I was once in a subway train in New York when I overheard Brazilian tourists talk about certain things and the lady who was the wife/mother of the family said, “o brasileiro não tem isso” in reference to how in NY, people respect public property. Which was odd because the subway system of São Paulo is well-kept, well-run, and clean, but that’s besides the point).

But those who have moved out and find a new way of life realize at last that the scattered complaints they had back home now can be dotted together. And that’s what makes them upset, even if they don’t realize it. They do love Brazil; leaving was painful (at Congonhas airport, I have often seen people cry as they move to another country; those who come to bid them farewell appear quite humble and I say this by the manner of what they wore. The departees weep; those who remain mourn as well. Leaving home is never easy). And, they’re frustrated things couldn’t be better, whatever the reasons. That’s why Brazil could easily be a first-world country if we consider its potential. It is a monumentally wealthy place as far as natural resources are concerned.

Great point. A US expatriate living in Japan, Singapore, Spain, or Brazil is doing that either because his job moved him there, or because he’s there teaching English and exploring the world. A Brazilian in the United States is either an illegal immigrant, a well-to-do young person studying English while his parents pay all his bills, or somebody w/ a college degree who is working legally.

The realities in Brazil wear you down. Either you develop very thick skin and make sure you’ve got enough esperteza never to get mugged nor ripped off, or you’re likely to be a victim. I think Jiripoca, despite his good intentions, doesn’t get this. If he never lived in Brazil as a teenager, young adult, or adult, he may well have a very idealistic and fantasized vision of what life in Brazil is really like for those who aren’t in the political elite or who aren’t very well-off. Even those who make tons of money are subject to crime.

 

By the same token I dont think you have grasped what my issue is: DISLOYALTY. My wife and family are well taken care of but people in my extended family (in Brasil) are not so fortunate, but they are proud of Brasil and proud to be Brasilian, they will not hear a word against their country, every country has good and bad points. This belies the point that you are making that a difficult life justifies slagging of your country and its people. It does not.

 

Oh come on, having it tough does not justify treachery and taking sides against your own people, joining in with enemy agents who are trying to belittle Brasil. Even a piss poor African would defend their country till they die if they were abroad and people were dissing it. Its a question of cojones and also realising that when these foreginers critisize Brasil, they are criticising you and seeing how you react, and if youre compliant and agreeable then they have failed to annoy you which is what they want. They are attacking YOU but you do not have the sensitivity to realise it or do not have the courage to fight it.

 

Hey have you seen this http://www.wate.com/story/25557405/austin-peay-football-field-sinkhole
But you will not hear Americanos dissing their country or abilities. Sometimes shit happens.

 

Jiripoca means well. I kind of understand him now. But I think that what may work against him is a limited command of Portuguese, and by this I mean no insult nor provocation. But we who can read the language fluently can access UOL and any other Brazilian news portal. The news indicate the stadiums (some anyway) are not ready.

And indeed: loyalty is actually caring enough about one's country to the extent that what is wrong, corrupt, and unjust isn't ignored. Rather, it is pointed out.

 

I think its funny that you are desperately talking about stadia and their readiness, as if its a knockout blow, when it`s really a side issue in this debate which you may have noticed is about loyalty, treachery and cowardice in the face of enemy criticisms. The stadia are as good as ready, so part of a roof is not finished, so what? Big deal, all Brasilians are bad and incompetent people then? I actually wonder whos` side youre on, thats what I think about you, youre so keen to defend FIFA and Valcke that you`ve totally lost the plot about where you come from and who you are.

Yes I think Valcke is a jerk off and I and others are within our rights to defend our country when it is attacked by enemies, and if you dont like that then I really dont care, I dont think you represent any kind of majority anywhere.

 

I dont take offence about the comments about the language even tho` they can be construed as patronising.
I think there is a time and place to criticise and discuss the bad points about ones country, but that time is not when your country is being attacked by its` enemies. To agree with anything said by enemies and their agents is a sign of lack of courage and integrity. These people are laughing and drooling over Brasils problems and Brasilians are joining in, unbelievable!

 

Jiripoca,

As Celito said, you said the stadiums are ready. They are not.

Look at this article from UOL, which talks about Arena Corinthians (Itaquerão). There is a 22-item photo "slideshow." Go to pictures 17 to 22. In the match vs. Figueirense, some fans got wet (and this was the VIP section) because the roofing was incomplete. There are building materials scattered. And part of the stands are not yet ready.

This is evidence not all stadiums are ready. Your statement that they were is therefore inaccurate and incorrect.

Now, nobody here is joining in w/ "enemies" who are "laughing and drooling" over Brazilian problems. If anything, we're not cheering them on; we're INDIGNANT because of those problems.

In the city of São Paulo, a public bus strike has overloaded the local subway system.

In 13 states (Alagoas, Amazonas, Bahia, Espírito Santo, Minas Gerais, Pará, Paraíba, Pernambuco, Rio de Janeiro, Rondônia, Santa Catarina, São Paulo and Tocantins), the civilian police (the equivalent of precinct officers, as opposed to the military police, who is the equivalent of patrol officer) is on strike.

Now, I personally disagree with the timing. Bus employees/union leaders and civilian police unions want raises. I have no problem w/ that. But they're doing this right before the tournament to garner maximum attention, and in a country like Brazil, where so many of the working poor and working class need public transportation as they cannot afford even modest cars, and where there is so much crime, for both bus drivers and police personnel to go on strike is preposterous. This also considering Brazilian firearms laws are strict (only if you're a law-abiding citizen; criminals have access to illegal guns at will, and have used them thousands of times, killing innocents for a few dollars or even less - not to mention the red-tape-ridden and inefficient judicial system, which convicts very few criminals), and therefore, many Brazilians are defenseless against marauding criminals in the absence of police.

The World Cup itself, and its organization (however faulty) is not directly nor indirectly responsible for these strikes. But given all the money that governments (federal and state) have used on the stadiums when public transportation (not to mention hospitals and schools) could have used major improvements and when public safety is a chronically deep issue, I fully sympathize with the rage of some demonstrators. It's a far cry from being a traitor or a foreigner-butt-kisser. They're fed up with how life is getting increasingly difficult while politicians compete for who's the best liar and the best thief of taxpayer money.

And if middle-class people in safe areas with cars are not "laughing and drooling," the $8-an-hour dwellers of very poor neighborhoods who are at the mercy of armed criminals most definitely aren't either.

Please try to understand that as opposed to obtusely painting all critics as traitors. It's an intellectually lazy and dishonest argument you're making.