Discussion in 'Portugal: National Teams' started by ---Z---, Jun 12, 2014.
And he's playing in the MLS and messi is in the World Cup final
Yup....boy what a difference having good players around you makes? You can play like garbage and be saved meanwhile a guy who bust his ass for his nation went home early.
Thanks for making my point for me.
Gooddead, whether you like it or not Messi is going to lift that trophy on Sunday so have a box of cleenex handy.
Yup, he will probably score a goal too.
But the favorites have won every knockout stage match in this World Cup. And Germany are favorites - so...
Your point doesn't make sense unless Cahill = Messi overall and if you think that then that's on you
I see your problem. It is the context you look at this world cup.
Whereas I look at this World Cup as a singular tournament separate from all other national team games, qualifiers, friendlies, club games, and players history. You on the other hand see this as part of what Messi has done all time (conveniently forgetting he has never done anything of substance in a major finals for Argentina)
Cahill in the games he has played has done more for Australia in this World Cup then what Messi has done for Argentina.
Is Cahill a better player? No.
Is Messi Capable of being the best? Yes
Has Messi done anything besides late goals in the group vs inferior opposition and a late assist vs the Swiss? No. Walking around losing the ball is not "decent" for anyone much less the most hyped player. That is on you.
Brazilian melt down continues.
1-0 after 3 mins.
Every team you have predicted to win has lost.
2-o Netherlands after 16 mins
They have the WORST trincos I have ever seen. They might as well be pylons.
You've forgotten what you said halfway through this post. You say you're taking this tourney as it's going the say Messi has never delivered. He's delivering. 4 goals and an assist in 6 games.
He's done more for Argentina than Cahill this World Cup. Know why? He's scored game winning goals. Cahill scored some beauties, won nothing but respect.
Brasieu = Tud Cagado
After watching this, as great as Messi is I don't see how he can be like Maradona
charismatic leader, sure he had his flaws such as drug abuse but hey
came from a poor background, etc
its interesting to note that Maradona during his playing days was far from liked… he was hated by many rival fans
and seeing the treatment he got from defenders like Gentile, or the butcher of bilbao (forget his name) , players today have it easier against today's defences IMO.
Except that one time England let him through. I mean... take a foul lol.
Slowly you are starting to say everything I have been saying. He's scored some game winners and had an assist. Great, what about the other 89 minutes during a game? The best player on Argentina? Why because he did enough to save face during the group stage?
There's a difference between Robben/James and Huntelaar/Messi. On the one hand you got guys that are the focus of the team for 90 minutes and score crucial goals throughout, on the other you have guys that don't do much (In Huntelaar's defence he is on the bench most of the time) and score very late to see his team progress (Even though it kinda ended for Messi after the group stage but need to find someone to compare him to)
I don't see how scoring 4 vs Minnows in the group stage = Best performer at the World Cup. But hey, I'm sure Cristiano Ronaldo should not to be blamed at all for Portugal's poor performance either. Because his body of work before the World Cup is all that matters to most.
Are you under the impression Robben did anything against Argentina or Costa Rica? Or hell, even Mexico? His World Cup has been quite similar to Messi's. Has he scored outside of group stage? Had an assist even?
According to you 4 goals (without them argentina would be home) means nothing. But scoring while losing (Cahill) means you're the best.
This convo is stupid. We're just not gonna agree.
His point is that looking at the number of goals and equating that to playing well/poorly isn't a valid measurement of success.
Messi's goals meant a lot. But you take out those 3 crucial plays, and he's done absolutely nothing except lose the ball.
But if you take out those plays, Argentina isn't playing in the final.
I know what you guys about about Messi from both sides. Sure, Messi hasn't played well during most of his games but he does have 4 goals including game winners. Big players make big plays regardless how poor they have been throughout a game.
All this talk about Messi won't mean anything to the fanboys if Argentina wins the World Cup. Messi will be regarded the best player of all time.
I still think Maradona was better. The guy won Napoli 2 league titles with a bunch of nobodies and made everyone around him much better players. Put CR7 or Messi in stoke City or elche and they won't do anything.
I have yet to see Messi dominate a game the way Ronaldo did with Sweden or in the CL semis, with Messi scoring like 3 goals with a sprint past defenders in open space. The Bale to Ronaldo play in the second semi and R's second goal against Sweden: if Messi has a play like that, okay, I will start to agree. I know he's done it but the games I've watched he tiki-tacks and gets fouled and makes a free kick. People talk about him like he can score at will but he is a much more organic (and kind of boring) player. that's how this WC has been. Ronaldo had some wide open shots in his three games; I don't recall too many from Messi.
Lmao bring up qualifiers and club play, as if messi has never won and played a CL or played a great game in la Liga. It has nothing to do with the World Cup. Unless you watch the conmebol qualifications you have no idea how messi did (hint better than Ronaldo).
Robben was lively in every game and at the very least broke through the Argentina defence to try and score.
You are looking at this purely and only by the stats and highlights, and that is my argument. Watch a full game and tell me how he is playing, you would say he sucked and as soon as he scores a late Iran goal it's "Oh what a great game today!" get real.
I never said Cahill was the best (I believe I even asked that question and said NO! LOL) I said per game he did more for Australia then what Messi has done. If Cahill running around every where with the ball scoring crucical goals being involved in the play is less then Messi walking around and turning the ball over repeatedly then you (like I said) are living in ESPN highlight reel world.
Does Messi need to work as hard as Cahill? No he has all starts all around him.
Can Messi do more then Cahill? Yes
Has Messi busted his ass in any game besides Nigeria like Cahill did in any of his games? No, not at all.
Is Messi playing better then anyone else on Argentina? No there are about 4 guys you can argue who are more involved then he is.
Is Messi playing to the standards he sets at Barcelona? No, not even half of what he is at Barca.
These questions are based on the entire game not, a question of did Messi score vs Bosnia? yes, then it was an Amazing 90 minute performance then. That's ridiculous.
James and Robben have more goals and did more during the game then Messi but the world believes that since Messi is in the final he was better in this tournament then James? That's nonsense.
If Messi wins today is involved in the game and scores a few goals then everything up to now doesn't matter and the excuse can be he saved himself for the Final in which case then yes he would be the best performer at this World Cup. But up to now don't make me laugh with this "just because" praise for him.
I have to disagree, but depends on what you define as doing more. To me, the most important aspect is that Messi scored decisive goals in each of the first three matches, made an assist in the 4th match, started the play that originated the goal against Belgium, and was involved in the most dangerous attacking plays against Netherlands. Cahill scored in the first two matches. I don't think it's comparable.
If we are talking about being more active, then I agree. Messi was completely shut down for long stretches of each match. Perhaps, he could have done better. He does not seem to be at his best. But the fact that he is playing out of his position may have something to do with it as well. He is a forward, not a playmaker like Maradona. Argentina was never very good at attacking. They struggled to create chances against teams that bunkered. Messi made the difference in the attack. He didn't play well enough to be considered an all-time best. In fact, not even as the best player of the tournament. But he was one of the most decisive players.
Damn, it sucks seeing two less than impressive teams in the final... We could've done so much more. The only team that looked good in the semis was Holland.
It hurts a lot that we couldn't do more than we did against germany. Not many teams were thought capable of putting up a fight against them before the tournament, we were supposedly one of them.