Women's Equal Pay Suit Dismissed At Summary Judgement

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Jazzy Altidore, May 1, 2020.

  1. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MPNumber9 and IndividualEleven repped this.
  2. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the statement on the limited claims that survive. Not much there:

    Plaintiffs' Title VII claim for discriminatory working conditions survives only insofar as it is based on (1) travel conditions (specifically charter flights and hotel accommodations), and (2) personnel and support services (specifically, medical and training support).
     
  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    That's a relief. The ramifications of a ruling in the women's favor could've been far-reaching. This country is in decline as it is.
     
  4. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    #4 schrutebuck, May 1, 2020
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
    Certain US Women National Team players earning extra benefits definitely seems to have damaged their case.



    I continue to be fine with letting the US Women get a "split", as best as possible, of the USSF's revenue.* But the US Women will probably need to re-negotiate its CBA to mirror the US Men to eliminate things like the guaranteed benefits.

    *Of course, the judgment indicates that the US Women are already earning more per match than the US Men.
     
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  5. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm still reading the opinion, but it looks like the Court determined that the women were actually paid more than the men on a per game basis, once all of the women's benefits were absorbed. Thus, they failed to provide evidence that the women were paid less than the men, fatal to the equal pay claim.

    Women would get paid even if they never played a match, standing in "stark contrast" to the MNT CBA, "under which players are only compensated if they are called into camp to play and then participate in a match."
     
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  6. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Court also noted how the women explicitly bargained for their detail and how it entailed less risk than the men's deal. Guaranteed salaries versus pay-to-play. Women rejected pay-to-play when offered.
     
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  7. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Exactly.

    There's room for a compromise here, IMO. I'm not sure that you (or many others) may necessarily agree, but I think the USSF's objective should be as equal of a revenue split as possible. Where the US Women will have to give is in re-negotiating their CBA to mirror the US Men on pay/benefits.

    Obviously, the USSF needs to surrender entirely to the US Women on the travel/conditions issue, and the US Women can also claim victory in the public fight, with USSF leadership totally wiped out.
     
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  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This really shouldn't come as a shock. The fact that the 1990's-early 2000's WNT members weren't front and center supporting this generation in their "fight for equal pay" was a deafening silence. Those who looked beyond the headlines, and hot takes could see that the facts showed that the women's national teams members were paid more than the men's national team players.

    IMO the members of the WNT would better serve the women's game by helping to build the NWSL into a viable, thriving and sustainable professional league. Just like the member's of the 1994 MNT helped to do with getting MLS off of the ground. Their sacrifices helped pave the way for today's players.

    Now the way the USSF has handled things is inexcusable. It's also not surprising, given the federations history of self inflicted wounds.
     
  9. sakibomb523

    sakibomb523 Member+

    Oct 13, 2009
    Orange County
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It doesn't help when the USWNT members miss a decent chunk of NSWL games to go to USWNT camps and play in friendlies.
     
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  10. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    I for one am shocked that an argument predicated on “ we are more successful as a team so therefore the deal we negotiated and agreed to willingly is not fair and we’d like to keep our deal and also get more money without negotiating” didn’t pan out in federal court.
     
  11. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Count me as one who is shocked. Normally these verdicts always go in favor of the loudest mob mentality. I’m glad to know logic won.
     
  12. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Maybe they're paid fairly. Maybe they are not. I'm just glad they lost because I don't like them.
     
  13. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Never fear. I am sure they will put their collective heads together and come up with another scheme to garner our attention...
     
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  14. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In federal court the opposite usually happens, but not always.
     
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  15. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    To me, they kind of represent that brand of feminism that says, "Men have gotten away with being obnoxious, entitled jerks with no consequences forever, so women should also get away with being obnoxious, entitled jerks with no consequences."
     
  16. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one on the women's team will be considered for the open accounting position at my company.
     
  17. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    Anyone know when their current CBA expires? NYT didn't say.

    Thinking that's their best bet for higher compensation at this point. Summary judgment is a high bar to appeal against.
     
  18. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to Wahl:



    And of course he's still blinded by the PR of the USWNT:

     
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  19. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Gran-ite Wahl and his hawt takes, what a dufus.

    I'm a huge Pats fan, and followed the embarrassing deflategate fiasco more than I should have. But it essentially made me into a labor law expert, and it seemed pretty obvious that a judge wasn't going to overrule a CBA.

    Goodell literally suspended Brady for something 30 of the country's top scientists wrote the court confirming didn't happen, and he was able to do it anyways because of the CBA.

    Just cuz a bunch of whiny liberals demand "equality for all" without reading about said equality agreed to in 2016, there was no chance this was going to work. If nothing else, the ladies got a few extra sponsorships and appearance fees on late night, so good for them I suppose.
     
  20. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    So is your position that you'd have no problem with the women negotiating hard in 2021 for a new CBA that may end up paying them more than the US men -- assuming they are still generating more revenue than the men at that point?
     
  21. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course. Who wouldn't think that. I don't think anyone would begrudge the women if they bargained as hard as possible. That's what they should be doing.
     
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  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ummm...the judge clearly states that the women are already being paid more than the men.....

    The federation would love for the USWNT to have the same CBA terms as the men. It would open up the team for competition for places. It would help alleviate a lot of the unnecessary drama as well. Anyone believe that Hope Solo would have lasted as long as she did were she not under contract guaranteeing her roster spot?
     
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  23. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    I don’t think you’d find many people having a problem with that. People had an issue with them 1) misrepresenting the value of the ancillary benefits they receive to the press and 2) feeling the need to throw the men’s program under the bus publicly in order to boost their own profile, and 3) pissing and moaning in public that a deal they negotiated was somehow fundamentally unfair.

    As someone that’s pro-labor and pro-equality, I found their public arguments relating to pay incredibly cynical and facile and insulting to people dealing with anti-labor practices and criminal inequality every day.
     
  24. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #24 gunnerfan7, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
    Moot point unless Biden wins this election and the next. Nothing Trump says on the subject matters much either. The WC is going to be in 2026, and AFAIK isn't going to take a ton of infrastructure. It's not like we're building a city in the desert, a la Qatar, for example.

    So we're going to be revisiting this funding after the next Presidential term at least once.
     
  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    If the women negotiate a new CBA that pays them 20 times the men, I'll give them a golf clap and say congrats. I am all for anybody getting what they are worth/able to negotiate. Frankly, I don't even begrudge the women in this case, as they are just trying to use a bit of celebrity and liberal wokeness to earn a few extra bucks. Good for them, and good luck in the future.
     
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