WNT EEOC Claim

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Reccossu, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Seems to me there is s place for this on the Men's N&A board because the women are saying they do they same job as the men but aren't compensated equally.

    Apparently the former EEOC chair sees no difference between men's soccer and women's soccer.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...laim-eeoc-chief-wage-discrimination/82525984/

    I am a big fan of both teams. But even though the rules are the same, it's odd to me suggest that they are doing the same job.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where their point is really made is that they actually generate significantly more money than the Men's side. It's not like other nations where the women's team don't have the same pull as the men's. Here the women's program is not only more successful but they're making more money for the USSF then the men's program. They have a legit case.
     
  3. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  4. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    I don't think the WNT makes more money than the men by any "business" measure. But I don't have firsthand info of that.
     
  5. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In terms of money invested/return on the dollar the Women's team sees a higher return per dollar spent on their program.
     
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  6. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    If wage rights can legally be divorced from total revenues, then it seems likely the USSF would ultimately spin off governance of women's soccer to another entity. Then there would be no legal pay inequality from a single employer. Whether it would be better or worse for soccer I don't know.
     
  7. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    I'm no lawyer and I'm also no woman and I also don't have a job, so the details of all this are foggy.

    Somebody boil it down for me: can we pin all this on Sunil somehow?
     
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  8. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    I had that thought too. My understanding is that women's tennis was essentially spun off in that way, and the results have been successful. The WTA has grown the game of women's tennis to the point that top women's players can be as famous and as well compensated as top men.
     
  9. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Not even close. They don't come within half of the revenue generated.
     
  10. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My second post clarified. My point. Per dollar invested into the program. The women's team generates more money.
     
  11. Jersey1

    Jersey1 Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Post-Olympics the WNT won't play a single meaningful game for 3 years. Where do they think the money is coming from? Even post-World Cup glory, on their never-ending Victory Tour and in that friendly tournament last month they routinely played in front of tens of thousands of empty seats.

    vs. 4th-ranked team in the world, England 3/3 13,027 attendance in a 65,890 capacity stadium
    vs. 3rd-ranked team in the world, France 3/6 25,363 attendance in a 69,143 capacity stadium
    vs. 2nd-ranked team in the world, Germany 3/9 13,501 attendance in a 29,419 capacity stadium

    Wambach's farewell game which was RELENTLESSLY hyped was played in front of 40,000 empty seats. I've supported the women's team for so many years, I love watching them play. I wish the demand to see them play was there to pay them huge amounts of money. But that demand isn't there. If they don't settle for a reasonable deal and actually push this thing all the way they're going to get killed in the end. The USSF, who I have no great love for, tried to be as tactful as possible in their response to this filing. They don't want to have to belittle this team, who've represented the country so well. But they may have no choice if they're forced to prove the equal pay argument is absurd. And make no mistake, it is absurd.

    These women have really boxed themselves into a corner. After all their TV appearances and forceful statements and hashtags anything less than equal pay is going to be seen as failure. And they are not going to get that. They've been fed some very bad advice by some very shady lawyers.

    Also I imagine the rank-and-file NWSL players who can't afford to live must really love this #equalplayequalpay nonsense from the very well-compensated national team players who basically abandoned the league last year while they were off soaking in all that World Cup adulation.
     
  12. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT

    Equal Pay Act standard from a case on the EEOC's website. This is from a court case so I don't know if the EEOC applies a more stringent standard for their internal investigations, which seems unlikely if it's just based on the same Act.
     
  13. exref

    exref Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Louisville, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What, exactly, is the work of a football player playing on a US national team? Is it: 1) to represent the US on the field of play? 2) to represent the US both on and off the field? 3) to win on the field of play? 3) to play well for the US? 4) to make money for USSF? We don't know what specifically is in the contracts in regard to this question - what exactly a US national team player's "work" entails.
     
  14. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    I wonder if their compensation is itemized in this or any other way?

    The part of the job that involves representing the team or federation off the field seems like the same job. The part about winning games requires different degrees of skill and are performed under different conditions.
     
  15. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    I have read that the men's team gets a better per diem than the women's team does, and it seems difficult to argue that the travel is any different for one or the other.
     
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  16. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    By per diem I assume they mean daily expenses for food (particularly) and other expenses while away from home. In which case I can't see why the per diems should be different unless the women get something else in return.
     
  17. Jersey1

    Jersey1 Member

    Oct 8, 2012
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The women get a salary from the USSF. They are USSF employees. The men are not, they are paid by their clubs.

    Also, these per diems (and everything else) were agreed to by the women. They negotiated this deal. None of them complained about anything in that deal when it was agreed to. Not a peep. Then they won a World Cup, had some lawyers whisper in their ears that they had some leverage and here we are...
     
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  18. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. The WNT pulled in roughly $50 million over the four year cycle while the men pulled in $60 and change. Add in the vastly greater publicity and the women are clearly pulling their weight economically. However they get paid 40% of what the men do. And yes the soccer hierarchy of USSF is men just as that horrible FIFA is which is why the women get treated like dirt (horrible turf pitches etc) despite being three time world champions.
     
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  19. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Uh no. They pull in about 15% less. 50 million v 60 million
     
  20. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    What respective FY's does that represent and what revenue streams?
     
  21. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The women have a good case. Not just on pay, but on working conditions as well. They are forced to work under conditions that the men are not allowed to work under because it is too dangerous.
     
  22. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    I agree with the per diems, but the travel can be quite different. I fairly sure all the women live in the US and that the USWNT likely plays a higher percentage of home games than any other NT, men's or women's anywhere in the world, because that is where they can make money. So a 2-3 hr flight in the US is quite different than a Germany to Panama flight that you see on the men's side.
     
  23. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Ummm except they did refuse to work on it.
     
  24. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why are you ignoring the fact that US Soccer pays the NWSL salaries for the women on the national team?

    If the women want fairness, they should get all equal pay across the board which I think everyone could agree to.

    But the stance of "equal pay" but please ignore the fact that US Soccer also pays the yearly salaries is at best disengenuous.

    If US Soccer wants to continue to fund the NWSL, that would be ok since they helped MLS out in the early years as well, but the paying of the actual salaries is what makes this whole thing look bad for the women in their claim of not being treated fairly.
     
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  25. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #25 Andy_B, Apr 3, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
    It has already been found that this data the women presented is partially flawed.

    1) it contains 2016 projections that assume the women win the olympic gold medal and then perform a long victory tour, which could happen but is not certain obviously.
    2) it contained $0 revenue for the enormous Copa America this summer (when called out on this they said the Copa was not yet set when they put together the data)

    I was initially on the womens side when the first salvo of data came out but so much has come out after that has raised a lot of questions for me, especially US Soccer paying the NWSL salaries, something they never did for the men.

    They need to be very careful about swinging the "equal pay" gavel, as they could end up getting everything they want and still end up with less than they started with if US Soccer pulls the NWSL funding (they won't but it will be used as a negotiating position).
     

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