... we'd have lost the Revolution. Perhaps our soccer development would have better as a result, but other parts of our history would have been less interesting. History didn't start in 1941, you know.
This is very true. But we repaid France when we helped them out in WW1. After WW2 and the Cold War, they owe us twice over. Alex
God forbid anyone bring facts into a discussion of Iraq. We're only allowed to believe the Bushies' lies and engage in self-congratulatory jingoistic self-righteousness and blood lust.
Re: Re: Without France ... Actually, I think the pinnacle of France-bashing was reached years ago by A. Whitney Brown on Saturday Night Live, when he called them "the only major power to come out on the losing end of a war with Greenpeace." Since then, the quality of Francophobia has been in severe decline. I'd lay off until we can think of something creative.
Re: Re: Re: Without France ... Thats not a criticism thats a joke, big difference. France consistently criticizes the US for being arrogant, unilateral and bullying its neighbors. Yet on the issue of Iraq 3 European countries support France and 15 support us. And after the threats France made to Eastern Europe, they can be considered just a big of a bully as the United States. Both countries can be considered to be acting in their own interest. However, at least the US is actually using its military and financial resources to help someone. People on the Left and in Europe consistently criticize the US for everything and anything they can think of. Yet when the French are caught acting unilaterally, selfishly and hypicritically, we are asked to remember all the good things France has done over 200 years ago. I guess we should say something nice about France since the Left in America and Europe has so many nice things to say about America.
"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He is French, people." --Conan O'Brien "The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." --David Letterman How's that for more creative?
Yeah, like we fought any of those wars because we wanted to help the French. While French involvement in the Revolutionary War was driven primarily by self-interest, there was more of a "humanitarian" impulse then than in any of the 3 wars you cite.
I "figure that" because I know about Lafayette. If you're interested, you can do some research on the Enlightenment and its influence on French political thought and action.
I am very much NOT a Rumsfield fan, but he got off a great one liner when asked how we could go to war without France. Something like "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordian".
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?????????? I'm guessing maybe you are talking about the French Philosophers that underpinned much of the Founding Father's rhetoric? Other than that, all I ccan say is "huh?" (and for the record, there was an minor undercurrent of paying back the French in WWI "Lafayette, we are here?")
Re: Re: Re: Re: Without France ... I don't presume to speak for the Left, but I'd say there's a big difference between criticizing America in a specific instance and having "nothing to nice to say" about it. All manner of people criticize certain aspects of America -- for or against gun control (and varying degrees in between), for or against abortion (again with varying degrees), for or against a tax break on dividend earnings, etc. Yet most of these people would have more than a few nice things to say about America if you actually asked them. Anyway, the point wasn't remember the 1780s every time you dislike something French. It was a bit of tweaking of the folks who only think of France as the country we rescued in WWI and WWII. (In both cases, we did so multilaterally after several years of non-interference, but that's another point -- and I DON'T mean to minimize the good that was done in the long run.) That's a pretty good one. Not really. I get paid to edit, solve technical problems, hold my breath 'til my face turns blue when no one wants to cover soccer or skiing, explain problems to tech support and keep my co-workers from screaming too much. The writing is thrown in, kind of like a fifth-round draft pick in an MLS trade.
That's no answer, enlighten us how french involvement was anything more than a poke in the eye to the British.
For the educationally challenged: France is more like the U.S. than any country in the entire world. French bashing is an expression of self-hatred. Want proof?
had comte de grasse not decided to "sacrafice" 6 days to come up to yorktown nothing layfayette ever did would have mattered. because the british fleet would have come and rescued cornwallis and clintons forces would come back into the picture and that would have been that. the french involvement in the war was PURELY political and hardly humanitarian. they put themselves in pure economic shambles to beat the british all over.
For the record, even though my name is French, my family has always played up the Scottish, English and vaguely Irish parts of the ancestry a bit higher. But that's probably just because I like the Pogues a lot more than Edith Piaf.
This kid wants to talk self-congratulatory speech?How odd. Blood lust? What's your major malfunction?