Sorry, PDG pointed out that I made a calculation error. 1995/1996 Milan 16W 9D 3L Without: 5W 1D 0L 1996/1997 Milan 5W 10D 8L Without: 6W 0D 5L With: 21W 19D 11L - 61/51 = 1.196 Without: 11W 1D 5L - 23/17 = 1.352
Baggio for Fiorentina and Bologna 1986/1987 Fiorentina 2W 2D 1L Without: 6W 8D 11L 1987/1988 Fiorentina 8W 9D 10L Without: 1W 1D 1L 1988/1989 Fiorentina 11W 9D 10L Without: 1W 1D 2L 1989/1990 Fiorentina 7W 14D 11L Without: 0W 0D 2L With: 28W 34D 32L - 90/94 = 0.957 Without: 8W 10D 16L - 26/34 = 0.764 1997/1998 Bologna 10W 12D 8L Without: 2W 0D 2L With: 1.066 ppg Without: 1.000 ppg [PDG1978 requested it and I could find it eventually]
Found it for Brescia: 2000/2001 Brescia 7W 12D 6L Without: 3W 2D 4L 2001/2002 Brescia 6W 4D 2L Without: 3W 9D 10L 2002/2003 Brescia 8W 14D 10L Without: 1W 1D 0L 2003/2004 Brescia 6W 10D 10L Without: 3W 3D 2L With: 27W 40D 28L - 94/95 = 0.989 Without: 10W 15D 16L - 35/41 = 0.853
i have found 2 games where beckenbauer was substituted due injury...in both cases bayern had draws but turned this games in wins....both was away games... bremen-bayern 2:3 uerdingen-bayern 1:2 in european cup up to season 1976/77 müller didnt play..bayern 3 wins,3 defeats.. beckenbauer didnt play...bayern 2 wins..
3 away games...2 in kiew and 1 away in malmö bayern did loose... 3 home games bayern won--1 kiew,1 malmö,1 jeunesse esch the other 2 without beckenbauer bayern won against pilsen at home and won away against panathinaikos athen..
I revisit this one because I got it for Boca Juniors. 1981 Metropolitano 15W 9D 4L Without: 5W 1D 0L 1981 Nacional 9W 2D 2L Without: 0W 1D 2L 1982 Metropolitano N/A Without: 6W 7D 3L [Maradona had contract with Boca until 1982WC but did not play league games for them in 1982] With: 24W 11D 6L - 59/41 = 1.439 Without: 11W 9D 5L - 31/25 = 1.240
22. Franco Baresi 1977/1978 Milan 1W 0D 0L Without: 11W 13D 5L 1978/1979 Milan 17W 10D 3L Without: N/A 1979/1980 Milan 13W 8D 7L Without: 1W 0D 1L 1980/1981 Milan 16W 11D 4L Without: 2W 3D 2L 1981/1982 Milan 5W 6D 7L Without: 2W 4D 6L 1982/1983 Milan 16W 11D 3L Without: 3W 5D 0L 1983/1984 Milan 8W 8D 5L Without: 2W 4D 3L 1984/1985 Milan 9W 11D 6L Without: 3W 1D 0L 1985/1986 Milan 8W 7D 5L Without: 2W 4D 4L 1986/1987 Milan 12W 8D 8L Without: 1W 1D 0L 1987/1988 Milan 16W 10D 1L Without: 1W 1D 1L 1988/1989 Milan 16W 13D 4L Without: 0W 1D 0L 1989/1990 Milan 19W 5D 6L Without: 3W 0D 1L 1990/1991 Milan 17W 8D 6L Without: 1W 2D 0L 1991/1992 Milan 22W 11D 0L Without: 0W 1D 0L 1992/1993 Milan 17W 10D 2L Without: 1W 4D 0L 1993/1994 Milan 18W 11D 2L Without: 1W 1D 1L 1994/1995 Milan 13W 9D 6L Without: 4W 0D 2L 1995/1996 Milan 18W 9D 3L Without: 3W 1D 0L 1996/1997 Milan 7W 8D 11L Without: 4W 2D 2L With: 268W 174D 89L - 710/531 = 1.337 Without: 45W 48D 28L - 138/121 = 1.140 [Note: AC Milan was convicted for match-fixing in 1980 and relegated to Serie B; Milan played in Serie B in 80/81 and 82/83 Note2: Missed games in 93/94 season concentrated at the end when Milan had secured the title.]
24. Lionel Messi 2004/2005 Barcelona 7W 0D 0L Without: 18W 9D 4L [note: all as sub] 2005/2006 Barcelona 15W 1D 1L Without: 10W 6D 5L [note: 6 times subbed in; one match completed] 2006/2007 Barcelona 16W 5D 5L Without: 6W 5D 1L [9 sub out, 3 sub in] 2007/2008 Barcelona 16W 7D 5L Without: 3W 3D 4L [10 sub out, 5 sub in] 2008/2009 Barcelona 24W 4D 3L Without: 3W 2D 2L [4 sub out, 4 sub in] 2009/2010 Barcelona 29W 5D 1L Without: 2W 1D 0L [4 sub out, 5 sub in] 2010/2011 Barcelona 26W 5D 2L Without: 4W 1D 0L [1 sub out, 2 sub in] 2011/2012 Barcelona 27W 7D 3L Without: 1W 0D 0L [0 sub out, 1 sub in] With: 160W 34D 20L - 354/214 = 1.654 Without: 47W 27D 16L - 121/90 = 1.344 Note: in 08/09 missed games are concentrated at end of season
24 Ronaldinho 2001/2002 PSG 12W 11D 5L Without: 3W 2D 1L 2002/2003 PSG 10W 8D 9L Without: 4W 4D 3L With: 22W 19D 14L - 63/55 = 1.145 Without: 7W 6D 4L - 20/17 = 1.176 2003/2004 Barcelona 20W 7D 5L Without: 1W 2D 3L 2004/2005 Barcelona 23W 8D 4L Without: 2W 1D 0L 2005/2006 Barcelona 22W 5D 2L Without: 3W 2D 4L 2006/2007 Barcelona 20W 6D 6L Without: 2W 4D 0L 2007/2008 Barcelona 8W 5D 4L Without: 11W 5D 5L With: 93W 31D 21L - 217/145 = 1.496 Without: 19W 14D 12L - 52/45 = 1.155 2008/2009 Milan 14W 8D 7L Without: 8W 0D 1L 2009/2010 Milan 19W 9D 8L Without: 1W 1D 0L 2010/2011 Milan 6W 3D 2L Without: 18W 7D 2L With: 39W 20D 17L - 98/76 = 1.289 Without: 27W 8D 3L - 62/38 = 1.631
Hi Puck, I think you missed Pele, one of the most important name (and also controversial to some "doubters" ... ============================================== 1- CLUB LEVEL with SANTOS 1957 - 1970: With Pele 139 Games 86 Wins 24 Draws 29 Defeats. Average 1.41 Points Per Game. Wthout 48 Games 0.83 Points Per Game. Games in these tournaments without Pele. Rio-SP 6/5/59 Palmeiras 1-2 9/5/59 America 3-4 27/3/60 Palmeiras 0-0 31/3/60 Cornthians 1-2 2/4/60 Flamengo 0-1 7/4/60 America 5-4 14/4/60 Fluminese 2-4 16/4/60 Botafogo 0-3 19/3/61 Portuguesa 3-0 23/3/61 Palmeiras 1-1 29/3/61 Cornthians 0-2 19/4/61 Flamengo 1-5 23/4/61 Botafogo 1-2 31/3/63 Botaogo 1-3 29/3/64 Vasco 2-0 5/4/64 Bangu 2-1 11/4/64 Palmeiras 2-1 15/4/64 Portugueasa 2-5 19/4/64 Sao Paulo 4-1 13/3/65 Flamengo 1-1 27/3/65 Sao Paulo 1-3 31/3/65 Palmeiras 1-7 26/2/66 Sao Paulo 2-3 3/3/66 Prtuguesa 2-1 6/3/66 Flamengo 1-1 10/3/66 Fluminese 0-1 13/3/66 Botafogo 1-1 17/3/66 Bangu 4-0 20/3/66 Vasco 5-2 23/3/66 Palmeiras 3-2 27/3/66 Corinthians 0-0 TACA and TACA DE PRATA National Games (6 Titles with Pele) 3/3/60 Bahia 1-3 8/9/68 Athletico Paranase 2-3 5/10/69 Cruzeiro 2-3 8/10/69 Internacional 0-3 29/10/69 America 1-1 26/11/69 Botafogo 0-0 Copa Libertadores (2 Titles with Pele) 25/2/62 Cerfo Portero 1-1 8/7/62 Universidad Cataoica 1-1 12/7/62 Universand Catolica 1-0 28/8/62 Penarol 2-1 2/9/62 Penarol 2-3 15/7/64 Idependeiente 2-3 22/7/64 Independiente 1-2 Intercontinental (2 Titles with Pele) 14/11/63 Milan 4-2 16/11/63 Milan 1-0 Recopa (1 Title with Pele) 16/4/68 Racing 3-2 19/4/68 Penarol 0-3 Total record without Pele in these games 48 Games 15 Wins 10 Draws 23 Defeats 0.83 Points Per Game. So in these 10 Years 15 Titles 2- With BRAZIL NT: With PELE: Brazil NT got 1.6 Points per Game Without Pele: Brazil NT got 1.4 Points/game BRAZIL TOTAL WITH PELE(1957-1971) Matches Won Draw Lost For Against Difference Points Percentage 92 67 14 11 235- 87 +148 148 (80.43) 72.82% wins ,15.2% draw 11.9% lost average points per game: 1.6 Brazil average goals scored per game: 2.55 conceded: 0.94 Difference: 1.61 goals Average total goals per game: 3.5 BRAZIL TOTAL WITHOUT PELE(1957-1971) Matches Won Draw Lost For Against Difference Points Percentage 63 40 10 13 134 - 83 +51 90 63.5% won, 15.8% draw 20.6% lost average points per game: 1.42 Brazil average goals scored per game: 2.12 conceded: 1.31 Difference: 0.81 goals Average total goals per game: 3.44
Yes, I've seen that stat passing by but I can't verify it. I also like to know the Santos matches vs European teams without Pelé. This is interesting material to read though: http://cravencottagenewsround.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/pele-a-very-dry-inspection/ http://cravencottagenewsround.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/diego-maradona-a-very-dry-inspection/
Puck, let's take a careful look at what this writer says: Another conclusion might be that Pele was an extraordinarily gifted team player, whereas Maradona very much played for himself. His genius allowed his teams to sometimes reach spectacular heights, but we might surmise that football’s very best sides are those where the team is universally strong and becomes greater than the sum of its parts, and any team over-reliant on one player may be similarly less than itself. Apparently, this guy must have missed all of WCs 86 and 90, where Maradona took a mediocre team to a WC championship and vice-championship, respectively. If that's not exactly being greater than the sum of your parts, I don't know what it means then. I also think he confuses greater individual performance with being a lesser team players. Maradona WC86 is certainly (and by a large margin) greater than any of Pele's WCs, but the article writer attributes this to Pele being more of a team player. A contemporary comparison would be Zidane vs Xavi, the Spaniard may be labeled more of a team player, but that may be precisely because Zidane had more individual talent to find solutions by himself (as Maradona had).
I only disagree with this part. Legends as Zidane and Maradona were able to find solutions by themselves, just because a star player is expected to singlehanding his team to victory. And is well known that stars (attacking players) like Pele, Di Stefano, Messi, etc. were able to turn a defeat into a win.
A bit of correction... Zidane was much more a team player and SELDOM found a solution to win game on his own, whilst Pele, Maradona Cruijff Puskas Stefano Garrincha ,,, could or DID turn games around on their own skills (SINGKEHANDEDLY). He did however a few BIG occasions like WC98 final, Euro04 quarter, and UCL02 final .. (plus a dosen games in Juve shirt in 98 and 02 Thats why I never place Zidane on same breadth as those Tier1. (Platini Zico Ronaldo Best, Eusebio Muller could have been "Border line tier1 for same criteria "win games by themselves or much more DECISIVE)