Win/loss statistics of 'legends'

This is good info but it would even be nicer if you contrast it with results when they were not on the field in their era.

For Cruijff the record without him is:

11W 7D 12L

Versus

31W 9D 8L

Also good to know: there have been Primera Division matches where both Di Stefano and Puskas were not on the field for Madrid.

12/04/1959 - Athletic Club - Real Madrid 4:1
17/04/1960 - Las Palmas - Real Madrid 0:1 [meaningless game]
02/10/1960 - Real Madrid - Espanyol 2:0
20/11/1960 - Mallorca - Real Madrid 1:1
11/02/1962 - Real Zaragoza - Real Madrid 2:1
25/02/1962 - Betis Sevilla - Real Madrid 2:1
25/03/1962 - Atletico Madrid - Real Madrid 1:0
25/01/1964 - Real Madrid - Valladolid 2:1
08/02/1964 - Real Madrid - Espanyol 1:0
19/04/1964 - Levante - Real Madrid 0:1

 

The next one is Romario but that will take a while. As supplement I will list all league matches and goals for PSV Eindhoven.

 

Romario 1988/1989

29/10/1988 - PSV - Twente 3:0 [in '45]
02/11/1988 - Haarlem - PSV 2:0
06/11/1988 - Roda JC - PSV 0:1 1 goal
12/11/1988 - PSV - RKC 5:2 3 goals
26/11/1988 - Fortuna Sittard - PSV 1:0
18/12/1988 - FC Utrecht -PSV 1:3 2 goals
21/12/1988 - PSV - Groningen 1:0
21/01/1989 - MVV - PSV 1:3 2 goals
29/01/1989 - PSV - Feyenoord 1:0 1 goal
12/02/1989 - Volendam - PSV 1:1
18/02/1989 - PSV - VVV 5:2
26/02/1989 - Den Bosch - PSV 2:2 1 goal (1PK)
04/03/1989 - PSV - Willem II 7:0 2 goals (1PK)
11/03/1989 - Veendam - PSV 1:2 1 goal
19/03/1989 - PSV - Ajax 1:4
25/03/1989 - Zwolle - PSV 0:5 3 goals (2PK)
01/04/1989 - PSV - Sparta 0:1
09/04/1989 - Twente - PSV 1:1
15/04/1989 - PSV - Roda JC 4:2 3 goals
30/04/1989 - RKC - PSV 0:0
06/05/1989 - PSV - Fortuna Sittard 1:0
13/05/1989 - PSV - Haarlem 3:0
15/05/1989 - Groningen - PSV 1:2
21/05/1989 - PSV - Utrecht 3:0

19 goals (4 PKs), 24 games

With: 16W 4D 4L
Without: 8W 1D 1L

 

Yes but flaws exist with all stats. Also the most rudimentary statistics have big flaws.

Often in overview-works only the appearances and goals are listed without the number of (easy) PK-goals. This is also the policy of wikipedia. And a 1:0 has arguably more weight than a 6:0.

Also that is a major flaw in most statistical overviews, the lack of PK-goals listed. Nevertheless, the goals, appearances and subsequent ratio still provides crucial insight.

Stats always gain weight when put into context. Zidane being red-carded and suspended for a while, or Charlton being injured, says indeed a lot more than a rest. And in case of Charlton Manchester United had a an in-form George Best to save the day.

Then also the substitutions have to be taken into account as well as the set-up of the league. 1980s and 1990s serie A (before Bosman-ruling) was very competitive and by any means more competitive than current La Liga so an absence of a star player could've felt more and meant the difference between a draw and a win (in case of an attacker) or a draw and a loss (in case of a defender).

 

Romario indeed was erratic. Produced some of the finest moments ever seen such as the destroying of Steaua and FC Porto as well as a stunning four goals against Feyenoord in the 1990/1991 season in a 6:0 win.
His immediate impact was big. He missed the first 10 games of the 1988/1989 season because the signing wasn't completed. He scored in the Intercontinental Cup game and played in all (league) matches. Coach was Guus Hiddink and had no issues with him; Hiddink had issues with other players like Vanenburg, Kieft, Eric Gerets and others. Hiddink eventually left the club in 1990 because of the infighting and backstabbing. He jokingly said: "18 players, 200 interests."
But Romario was outside of this and he won the player of the year award after his first season (1988/1989), which was not replicated in the seasons afterwards. Romario became the primary PK-taker as well and that with Ronald Koeman in the squad, who accepted this without problems.

Problems came in the 1989/1990 season. He arrived too late after the Copa America. PSV was not happy. Romario also showed signs of poor form. As known, he broke his leg in March 1990 and missed the World Cup.

Romario wanted to rehabilitate in Brazil and PSV granted him this freedom, although with regular checks of doctors. But Romario did not meet up at appointments and other obligations. After that event he had frequent and uncountable quarrellings with players and coaches.

He had issues with Bobby Robson who was IMO also a very bad manager - at PSV at least. Romario felt unappreciated and others found him fickle and unpredictable. Erwin Koeman was the spokesman of the 'anti-Romario' group and signalled that his behaviour was way too unpredictable. Such as: claiming strongly to take a penalty kick but decide otherwise on the very last moment.

Romario was still brilliant at times but in general Bergkamp of Ajax was seen as the better player and outscored him on several occasions. Romario did not win accolades in the years afterwards. Arguably also some homerism had a stake but Bergkamp had nevertheless higher ratings and more goals with less PKs although with more appearances. His game was seen as more 'complete' too and crucially: while Romario did not live a professional life, his rival poster-boy at Ajax was the model-professional. Also crucial: PSV had more money with European ambitions but it was Ajax that won an European prize during that time-span.

You maybe wonder why Romario played for four seasons at PSV and the reason was that at the same time many, also his team-mates, had a weakness for him. Romario was unpredictable but definitely not an evil and unfriendly person nor particularly egoistic.
A famous documentary exists where he shows adaptation problems and homesickness but at the same time clearly appreciates the country he lives in. Bobby Robson had a soft spot for him too. Robson had difficulties in handling the situation when Romario put up his middle finger towards Robson on October 1991 against Besiktas, when he was subbed out in the 70th minute. It caused another row but Robson treated him as the little boy who wasn't aware of what he was doing.

This changed when a certain Westerhof became interim-manager. He had served in the army and made a infamous career within the army. His dictum was "rules are rules" and made no exception for anyone else. He preferred to drill like a commander.

Romario also lost another protector and that was a certain Ploegsma who was 'team-manager', which is the human relations guy and arranges many things for the players. This Ploegsma had always protected him and was influential.
Changes in the staff caused Romario to become a persona non grata. Barcelona manager Cruyff stepped in and saw Westerhof as a carbon-copy of Hennes Weisweiler - he literally said this. Cruyff thought that the PSV staff was the problem and not Romario. Romario played probably the best season of his career at Barcelona. Apparently, also Romario himself thinks this. But as we all know he developed at Barcelona problems as well and left during the 1994/1995 season.

Summary of above: he was certainly erratic and also difficult to handle. He caused many rows but players and coaches alike had a soft spot for him. He was literally brilliant at times but also invisible in matches and detrimental to the game because he refused to defend. Hence, he was subbed out regularly. His first season was his best and above all most consistent season.

 

It is funny that journalists often do not think like this. If star player A does not play and team X fails to win then it is for them simple.

Or the idea that teams are total one-man shows.

I agree with you that this might be true but it also depends on the player under scrutiny. And you can have several forces working against each other at the same time like Maradona transferring the winning-spirit to Napoli but at the same time there is no second Maradona on the planet. So which force is stronger? The 'momentum' or the irreplaceableness of Maradona?

The same can be applied to Cruyff, Di Stefano and many others.

By that same token: Maradona had Zola as understudy near the end of his career, Bayern had no Beckenbauer-clone at all and arguably the world has never seen a second Beckenbauer and will never see again a similar player because the libero role does not exist any more in modern football.

Barcelona had no second Cruyff but (arguably) guys like Neeskens, Rexach and Sotil could still provide a bit of the punch and abilities he added to Barcelona.

 

Here you can see the results of the full season:

Puskas
http://www.bdfutbol.com/en/p/j7862.html?cat=1a&temp=1961-62&equip=-&rival=-&noj=1

Di Stefano
http://www.bdfutbol.com/en/p/j7349.html?cat=1a&temp=1961-62&equip=-&rival=-&noj=1

 

Romario 1989/1990

03/09/1989 - PSV - Den Bosch 1:1
10/09/1989 - PSV - Ajax 2:0 2 goals
17/09/1989 - Den Haag - PSV 1:5
23/09/1989 - PSV - Sparta 9:1 1 goal
01/10/1989 - Twente - PSV 0:0
14/10/1989 - PSV - MVV Maastricht 8:1 3 goals
21/10/1989 - PSV - Vitesse 0:1
04/11/1989 - PSV - Volendam 2:2 2 goals
19/11/1989 - FC Utrecht - PSV 1:7 4 goals
25/11/1989 - PSV - Fortuna Sittard 2:0 2 goals (1PK-goal)
03/12/1989 - Feyenoord - PSV 4:0
16/12/1989 - PSV - Haarlem 4:0 3 goals (1PK-goal)
23/12/1989 - PSV - Groningen 2:0 1 goal (1PK-goal)
21/01/1990 - Den Bosch - PSV 1:1
27/01/1990 - PSV - Willem II 2:1
02/02/1990 - Roda JC - PSV 3:1 1 goal
10/02/1990 - PSV - NEC 6:0 2 goals
18/02/1990 - Ajax - PSV 3:2
25/02/1990 - Groningen - PSV 0:0
04/03/1990 - PSV - Den Haag 9:2 2 goals [Romario broke his leg and missed World Cup]

20 games, 23 goals (3 PK-goals)

With: 11W 5D 4L
Without: 9W 3D 2L

I mentioned that Bergkamp started to become his 'rival', or at least the poster-boy of the direct competitor. Well, Bergkamp struggled with injuries in this season. You also see this reflected in the stats: in 1988/1989 he scored 13 goals in 30 games as right-winger, in 1989/1990 he scored 8 goals in 25 games as AM/SS - so his progress stalled in that season.
Bergkamp came in the direct meetings with PSV on the field as late sub around the 70th minute in the game of 10/09/1989. Romario scored two goals and PSV won with 2:0.
In the other game on 18/02/1990 (3:2 win for Ajax) was Bergkamp not on the field at all - he had lost his place. Bergkamp would make his (postponed) debut for the national team right after the World Cup in September 1990.

 

Of course also the 1000 goals speak for him. And the youtube highlights look nice. His best moments and best games are fantastic. He also played once with PSV against mighty Milan and toyed with Baresi + Maldini in the match

I found personally his way of moving very smooth. It was a strange way of moving, not textbook-material, but it looked smooth, fluid and natural for some reason.

 

Romario 1990/1991

28/08/1990 - PSV - Utrecht 5:0 2 goals (1 PK-goal) [out '88]
02/09/1990 - NEC - PSV 1:1 [out '45]
16/09/1990 - Feyenoord - PSV 1:1
23/09/1990 - Heerenveen - PSV 0:3 2 goals (2 PK-goals)
30/09/1990 - PSV - Den Haag 4:0 1 goal
20/10/1990 - PSV - RKC 3:1 1 goal [out '35]
11/11/1990 - SVV - PSV 0:1 [out '58]
19/01/1991 - PSV - Groningen 1:1 [in '61]
27/01/1991 - Volendam - PSV 0:2 1 goal
03/02/1991 - Utrecht - PSV 1:1
03/03/1991 - PSV - Feyenoord 6:0 4 goals
17/03/1991 - RKC - PSV 0:3 1 goal
23/03/1991 - PSV - Roda JC 3:0
27/03/1991 - PSV - Heerenveen 2:0 1 goal
01/04/1991 - ADO Den Haag - PSV 3:0
07/04/1991 - PSV - Ajax 4:1 2 goals
20/04/1991 - Sparta - PSV 1:0 [out '30]
01/05/1991 - PSV - NEC 1:0 1 goal
05/05/1991 - Vitesse - PSV 1:1 1 goal
09/05/1991 - MVV -PSV 3:3 3 goals
12/05/1991 - PSV - Willem II 3:0 1 goal
17/05/1991 - Fortuna Sittard - PSV 0:3 2 goals
25/05/1991 - PSV - Twente 3:1 1 goal
09/06/1991 - Groningen - PSV 4:1 1 goal
16/06/1991 - PSV - Volendam 3:0

25 games, 25 goals (3 PK-goals)

With: 16W 6D 3L
Without: 7W 1D 1L


Topscorer tables so far:

1988/1989:
1. Romario 19 goals (3 goals more as #2; Bergkamp had 13 goals)

1989/1990:
1. Romario 23 goals (2 goals more as club-mate Wim Kieft)

1990/1991:
1. Romario 25 goals
1. Bergkamp 25 goals (8 more as #3)

 

Romario 1991/1992

16/08/1991 - PSV - Utrecht 2:1 [out '55]
20/10/1991 - PSV - Ajax 3:2 1 goal
11/01/1992 - PSV - Sparta 4:1 2 goals
19/01/1992 - Ajax - PSV 1:0
26/01/1992 - PSV - Den Haag 2:1 2 goals [out '80]
19/02/1992 - VVV - PSV 0:2
23/02/1992 - Dordrecht - PSV 1:2
07/03/1992 - PSV - Vitesse 2:0 1 goal
15/03/1992 - Volendam - PSV 0:3 1 goal
29/03/1992 - PSV - Feyenoord 2:1 1 goal
03/04/1992 - MVV - PSV 1:1
11/04/1992 - PSV - Willem II 3:0
18/04/1992 - PSV - RKC 5:0 1 goal
03/05/1992 - PSV - Graafschap 5:0

14 matches, 9 goals (0 PK-goals)

With: 12W 1D 1L
Without: 13W 7D 0L

Topscorer: Bergkamp 24 goals (5 goals more as #2), Romario is on a shared 20th place with 9 goals.

 

Romario 1992/1993

15/08/1992 - PSV - Roda JC 2-0
26/09/1992 - MVV Maastricht - PSV 1-5 3 goals
03/10/1992 - PSV - Feyenoord 1-1 1 goal
07/10/1992 - RKC Waalwijk - PSV 0-3 2 goals
17/10/1992 - Willem II - PSV 1-1
24/10/1992 - PSV - FC Groningen 3-0 1 goal
31/10/1992 - FC Twente - PSV 1-2
28/11/1992 - Go Ahead Eagles - PSV 0-3 2 goals
19/12/1992 - PSV - Vitesse 1-0
17/01/1993 - FC Volendam - PSV 3-1 1 goal
30/01/1993 - PSV - RKC Waalwijk 0-3
03/02/1993 - PSV - Sparta Rotterdam 3-1
14/02/1993 - PSV - Ajax 2-1
28/02/1993 - FC Den Bosch - PSV 2-2 1 goal
06/03/1993 - PSV - MVV Maastricht 2-1 2 goals
13/03/1993 - Feyenoord - PSV 1-1 1 goal
20/03/1993 - PSV - Willem II 1-1
03/04/1993 - PSV - FC Twente 6-2 3 goals
14/04/1993 - Fortuna Sittard - PSV 1-5 1 goal
18/04/1993 - PSV - FC Utrecht 3-1 2 goals
08/05/1993 - PSV - Go Ahead Eagles 2-0
11/05/1993 - Roda JC - PSV 2-0
16/05/1993 - Sparta Rotterdam - PSV 2-5 2 goals
19/05/1993 - FC Dordrecht - PSV 2-2
23/05/1993 - Vitesse - PSV 1-0
31/05/1993 - PSV - FC Volendam 2-2

26 matches, 22 goals (0 PK-goals)

Funny anecdote: he missed three PK-attempts

With: 15W 7D 4L
Without: 7W 0D 1L

Topscorer list:
1) Bergkamp 26 goals
2) Romario 22 goals (2 more as #3)

 

18. Romario at PSV, Barcelona and Valencia

1988/1989 PSV 16W 4D 4L Without: 8W 1D 1L
1989/1990 PSV 11W 5D 4L Without: 9W 3D 2L
1990/1991 PSV 16W 6D 3L Without: 7W 1D 1L
1991/1992 PSV 12W 1D 1L Without: 13W 7D 0L
1992/1993 PSV 15W 7D 4L Without: 7W 0D 1L

With: 70W 23D 16L - 163/109= 1.495
Without: 44W 12D 5L - 100/61 = 1.639

1993/1994 Barcelona 22W 5D 6L Without: 3W 1D 1L
1994/1995 Barcelona 7W 3D 3L Without: 11W 7D 7L

With: 29W 8D 9L - 66/46 = 1.434
Without: 14W 8D 8L - 36/30 = 1.200

1996/1997 Valencia 2W 0D 3L Without: 13W 11D 13L
1997/1998 Valencia 2W 2D 2L Without: 14W 5D 13L

With: 4W 2D 5L - 10/11 = 0.909
Without: 27W 16D 26L - 70/69 = 1.014

Note: low sample

 

I forgot to add the sub info. Here it is:

Romario 1992/1993

15/08/1992 - PSV - Roda JC 2-0
26/09/1992 - MVV Maastricht - PSV 1-5 3 goals
03/10/1992 - PSV - Feyenoord 1-1 1 goal
07/10/1992 - RKC Waalwijk - PSV 0-3 2 goals
17/10/1992 - Willem II - PSV 1-1 [out '45]
24/10/1992 - PSV - FC Groningen 3-0 1 goal
31/10/1992 - FC Twente - PSV 1-2
28/11/1992 - Go Ahead Eagles - PSV 0-3 2 goals
19/12/1992 - PSV - Vitesse 1-0
17/01/1993 - FC Volendam - PSV 3-1 1 goal
30/01/1993 - PSV - RKC Waalwijk 0-3
03/02/1993 - PSV - Sparta Rotterdam 3-1
14/02/1993 - PSV - Ajax 2-1 [out '85]
28/02/1993 - FC Den Bosch - PSV 2-2 1 goal
06/03/1993 - PSV - MVV Maastricht 2-1 2 goals
13/03/1993 - Feyenoord - PSV 1-1 1 goal [out '85]
20/03/1993 - PSV - Willem II 1-1
03/04/1993 - PSV - FC Twente 6-2 3 goals
14/04/1993 - Fortuna Sittard - PSV 1-5 1 goal
18/04/1993 - PSV - FC Utrecht 3-1 2 goals
08/05/1993 - PSV - Go Ahead Eagles 2-0
11/05/1993 - Roda JC - PSV 2-0
16/05/1993 - Sparta Rotterdam - PSV 2-5 2 goals
19/05/1993 - FC Dordrecht - PSV 2-2
23/05/1993 - Vitesse - PSV 1-0
31/05/1993 - PSV - FC Volendam 2-2

 

James, absolute percentages are even more flawed than relative comparisons. Someone like Nedved will never show the same win percentages for example.

 

19 Paolo Maldini

1984/1985 Milan 1W 0D 0L Without: 11W 12D 6L
1985/1986 Milan 8W 10D 9L Without: 2W 1D 0L
1986/1987 Milan 13W 9D 7L Without: 0W 0D 1L
1987/1988 Milan 15W 10D 1L Without: 2W 1D 1L
1988/1989 Milan 12W 11D 3L Without: 4W 3D 1L
1989/1990 Milan 19W 5D 6L Without: 3W 0D 1L
1990/1991 Milan 14W 7D 5L Without: 4W 3D 1L
1991/1992 Milan 20W 11D 0L Without: 2W 1D 0L
1992/1993 Milan 17W 12D 2L Without: 1W 2D 0L
1993/1994 Milan 17W 11D 2L Without: 2W 1D 1L
1994/1995 Milan 15W 7D 7L Without: 2W 2D 1L
1995/1996 Milan 17D 10D 3L Without: 4W 0D 0L
1996/1997 Milan 10W 7D 9L Without: 1W 3D 4L
1997/1998 Milan 10W 9D 11L Without: 1W 2D 1L
1998/1999 Milan 18W 9D 4L Without: 2W 1D 0L
1999/2000 Milan 13W 9D 5L Without: 3W 4D 0L
2000/2001 Milan 12W 12D 7L Without: 0W 1D 2L
2001/2002 Milan 8W 5D 2L Without: 6W 8D 5L
2002/2003 Milan 16W 6D 7L Without: 2W 1D 2L
2003/2004 Milan 22W 6D 2L Without: 3W 1D 0L
2004/2005 Milan 22W 6D 5L Without: 1W 4D 0L
2005/2006 Milan 10W 0D 4L Without: 18W 4D 2L
2006/2007 Milan 6W 7D 5L Without: 13W 5D 2L
2007/2008 Milan 8W 3D 6L Without: 10W 7D 4L
2008/2009 Milan 16W 7D 7L Without: 6W 1D 1L

With: 339W 189D 119L – 867/647 = 1.340
Without: 103W 68D 36L – 274/207 = 1.323

 

20 Lothar Matthaus

1979/1980 Monchengladbach 10W 10D 8L Without: 2W 2D 2L
1980/1981 Monchengladbach 15W 6D 12L Without: 0W 1D 0L
1981/1982 Monchengladbach 15W 10D 8L Without: 0W 0D 1L
1982/1983 Monchengladbach 12W 4D 18L Without: N/A
1983/1984 Monchengladbach 21W 6D 7L Without: N/A

With: 73W 36D 53L – 182/162 = 1.123
Without: 2W 3D 3L – 7/8 = 0.875

1984/1985 Bayern 21W 7D 5L Without: 0W 1D 0L
1985/1986 Bayern 15W 6D 2L Without: 6W 1D 4L
1986/1987 Bayern 19W 11D 1L Without: 1W 2D 0L
1987/1988 Bayern 16W 4D 6L Without: 6W 0D 2L

With: 71W 28D 14L – 170/113 = 1.504
Without: 13W 4D 6L – 30/23 = 1.304

1988/1989 Inter 25W 6D 1L Without: 1W 0D 1L
1989/1990 Inter 13W 7D 5L Without: 4W 3D 2L
1990/1991 Inter 17W 9D 5L Without: 1W 1D 1L
1991/1992 Inter 8W 16D 4L Without: 2W 1D 4L

With: 63W 38D 15L – 164/116 = 1.413
Without: 8W 5D 8L – 21/21 = 1.000

1992/1993 Bayern 12W 11D 5L Without: 6W 0D 0L
1993/1994 Bayern 17W 9D 7L Without: 0W 1D 0L
1994/1995 Bayern 6W 8D 2L Without: 9W 5D 4L
1995/1996 Bayern 10W 3D 6L Without: 9W 2D 4L
1996/1997 Bayern 17W 9D 2L Without: 3W 2D 1L
1997/1998 Bayern 15W 5D 5L Without: 4W 4D 1L
1998/1999 Bayern 18W 4D 3L Without: 6W 2D 1L
1999/2000 Bayern 10W 3D 2L Without: 12W 4D 3L

With: 105W 52D 32L – 262/189 = 1.386
Without: 49W 20D 14L – 118/83 = 1.421

 

21 Roberto Baggio at Juventus and Milan

1990/1991 Juventus 12W 11D 10L Without: 1W 0D 0L
1991/1992 Juventus 18W 11D 3L Without: 0W 1D 1L
1992/1993 Juventus 11W 9D 7L Without: 4W 0D 3L
1993/1994 Juventus 15W 13D 4L Without: 2W 0D 0L
1994/1995 Juventus 11W 2D 4L Without: 12W 2D 3L

With: 67W 46D 28L - 180/141 = 1.271
Without: 19W 3D 7L - 41/29 = 1.413

1995/1996 Milan 16W 9D 3L Without: 5W 1D 0L
1996/1997 Milan 5W 10D 8L Without: 6W 0D 5L

With: 21W 19D 11L - 61/41 = 1.487
Without: 11W 1D 5L - 23/17 = 1.352