Can someone please explain this to me... SL Tribune/Michael Lewis: Williams complains of epithet--RSL player complains, starts sideline dispute RSL's Andy Williams accused New York's Amado Guevara of directing a racial epithet toward him during the team's 1-1 draw at Rice-Eccles Stadium on Saturday night, leading to a visible sideline dispute between Williams and an assistant referee. “It was a racial comment, I reported it to the ref,” Williams said. “But they said they didn't hear it, so they can't do anything about it.” A native Jamaican, Williams wasn't specific about the comment, but pleaded his case to assistant referee Richard Heron on the sideline between the benches during a break in play - at one point holding his arms out in disgust. Guevara, a native of Honduras, did not speak to reporters in the locker room after the game, and Red Bulls officials had no comment on the allegation. “It's out of my hands,” Williams said. “So be it.” RSL's Atiba Harris made a similar accusation during the preseason against D.C. United coach Peter Nowak. Nowak denied saying that Harris - a native of St. Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean - should be “sent back to Africa,” but the league later fined him an undisclosed amount for “improper remarks.” [/I] RSL's Andy Williams complained a New York player used a racial epithet directed at Williams. [Note: this article incorrectly(?) suggests that Atiba Harris himself made the complaint against Nowak.]
I had a few questions for Guevara and Djorkaeff. Let's just say that Djorkaeff pretty much dressed, and flew out of the locker room. The MSG reporter said that he was not in the mood to talk. (yeah, I couldn't tell...) Neither was Guevara. Like I said elsewhere, the tension was thick. Mo Johnston was a little riled up. He was very dissapointed in his post game interview. If I had known there was an alleged racist comment toward Andy, I would've tried a little harder for an interview.
Oh, THAT'S what Andy was all "up in arms" about. Cute. Gayvara. Clever. Well, maybe refs will keep a better ear turned toward Gayvara for a little while. I, for one, wouldn't put it past Gayvara. He has a lot of issues with the league he plays in...I just hope we don't get a reputation for crying "racist!" at every chance we get... --Geoff ----------------------- REGULATORS! Mount up! Gayvara: "I said, 'Get back to Jamaica hospital, you Jamaican!' I guess he didn't like that...or the elbow throwing and jersey grabbing. I love that Wynne kid. If he can't beat you, he'll just grab you from behind until you give up. Great distracting tactic. He's definitely not going to Jamaica hospital." Wynne: "Andy, I love you!"
The irony of using the term "Gayvara" in a thread about using epithets is seriously too much for me to deal with today...
I don't know the truth of Williams' allegation. I can, however, see how it is being handled by MLS. It is likely to be swept under the proverbial rug. At the very least, allegations of on-pitch racism must be taken seriously. They are nearly impossible to prove. But the mechanics of even inconclusive formal investigations serve two important purposes. First, they provide deterence against further acts of racism. Second, they deter equally harmful frivolous or false allegations from being casually made. MLS will probably fail to act again. It will hope that this too fades away like so many forgotten match incidents. If so, this League is no better than the ugly banana-waivers of Spain & Italy. And it is less worthy of our respect.
Now this I can totally agree with. Even if they can't prove anything, they need to take this seriously and investigate it for the reasons you mentioned. If they don't and try to just ignore it hoping it will go away, then they will be making a big mistake.
I'm pretty sure I know when this happened. It was in the second half, not long before guevara scored. He and Andy both went in for a 50/50 near the east sideline about half field. Andy put his shoulder down and really gave Guevara a nice hit. I think there wasn't actually a call and Andy came away with the ball and passed it away, which surprised me because it looked like a pretty hard foul by Andy from where I was. A few minutes later at a dead ball (there may have been a sub taking place) I was watching Andy and I noticed Guevara walk up to him from a little ways away and whisper somthing in his ear then quickly start walking away. Andy got a confused look on his face then yelled something back. A minute or so later he was having a conversation with the linesman and 4th official. The center ref may have come over but I can't remember. Obviously nobody knows what was actually said, but given the way the events unfolded there is at least a little bit of evidence to support Andy's claim, although nothing substantial. Just that Guevara clearly went out of his way to come over to Andy and whisper something to Andy which seemed to upset him. Guevara did something else which in any other league would probably be a suspension or a big fine (even though I personally don't think it's a big deal). Later in the game, when Guevara was towards the east sideline on the south half of the field, the supporter's group that was sitting over there kept yelling "Guevara you p-u-s-s-y!" At one point while the play was stopped for something, Guevara started grabbing his crotch. At first he did it in a way like a baseball player might, sort of staring into the sky pretending he was adjusting his cup or something. But after a few seconds he began to stare directly at those supporters and gave them a little look like he was responding directly to what they were shouting. Actually his look made it very clear what he was saying; there is really no way he wasn't directing this gesture at the fans. But he did do it in sort of a way that he could probably argue his way out of trouble if anybody made a fuss about it. Still, he came off looking like a classless player just from that incident. Those same supporters were saying much worse things to Chris Henderson and Tony Meola, but they acted like professionals and just ignored them. I don't think anybody was actually offended by what guevara did, especially not the people he directed it at. But he doesn't paint a good picture of himself when he acts immaturely in a game and is then accused of being racist. He's lucky he's in MLS and not England, where he could potentially be in big trouble if he acted that way. As it is, nothing will come of this.
that would be us in E38. All Meola did was point to his jersey number when the scored but was overall very classy. Henderson didn't do anything. I was laughing so hard when Guevara did that. He did receive a section's worth of middle fingers when he did that.
sokol, good eyewitness perspective. Much credit to Michael C. Lewis at the Trib for following up on this.... SL Tribune: RSL--Inquiry for slur claim under way--Racist taunt? Andy Williams of RSL accuses an opponent Major League Soccer is investigating allegations that New York's Amado Guevara directed a racial slur toward Real Salt Lake's Andy Williams during a game last weekend at Rice-Eccles Stadium, a league official confirmed Monday. "The issues are extremely sensitive because of what they can do to a person's reputation," said Will Kuhns, the league's director of communications. "So the league wants to make very sure it's correct" with any ruling it might make. Williams, who is black and a native Jamaican, accused Guevara of directing a "racial comment" toward him during RSL's 1-1 draw with the Red Bulls on Saturday night. Williams did not describe the comment, but demonstrably protested to the fourth official at the sideline after the alleged incident occurred. However, Williams said the official, Richard Heron, told him he hadn't heard what Guevara allegedly said. "So be it," Williams said. Guevara is a native of Honduras. He did not speak with reporters after the game on Saturday, and the Red Bulls have twice declined comment on the accusations. There is no set timetable for the investigation, which is expected to consist of interviews with the principals and others who might have been nearby at the time of the alleged incident. The league has no specific guidelines for punishing racist behavior. Rather, it handles alleged incidents on a case-by-case basis, though FIFA - the world governing body for soccer - adopted anti-racism rules last month that increased penalties for teams whose fans taunt players with racial slurs.
How I wish he would be back here in SL again this year. Gueavara plays with himself! (chanted until we pass out).
It was this play that saw Guevara face down on the turf. At that point I started looking for the player Andy could potentially pass to so I didn't see what happened after that.
*I feel absolutely sick to my stomach that both Atiba and Andy have had to deal with this ****! It is two-thousand frickin' six! Are people still that dense!? I'm glad to see that the league is appearing to take this seriously. It's a hard thing to deal with, because it can easily come down to a he said/ he said, but they have to try to do something. *Samuel Eto'o, the Cameroon National that plays for F.C. Barcelona has become one of my all time favorite strikers to watch. He plays simply brilliant soccer, and he is truly one of the most exciting players in the world. My heart breaks for him, he has gone through so much racist crap in Spain and Europe this year. During one match, he was visibly upset- First he was furious, but that changed to sadness and even tears. He (& fellow cracks Ronaldinho, and Lionel Messi) threatened to leave the pitch. There have been serious consequences for the clubs who's players/fans who did those things. Italy hands out 'empty stadium' punishments like they're going out of style. The World Cup this year has a whole security division dedicated to anti-racism. (Any sign, gesture, phrase, or even symbol relating to Nazism will result in expulsion and arrest). *FIFA and the world seem to have figured out that this is serious stuff, and that offenses require detailed effort and investigation and, if warranted, punishment. Let's hope the MLS follows suit, and makes it very clear that no player should ever have to feel that there is nothing that can be done, and simply have to settle for, 'so be it'.
Couple of good links: FIFA Against Racism And for anybody who wants to follow a truly giant game today: A.C. Milan vs. F.C. Barcelona - Stadio Giuseppe Meazza (San Siro) 14:45 ET (12:45 MT) There is a link to listen live [en directe] (It's in Catalan, but you can understand it, especially if you are at all familiar with Spanish, French, or Portuguese. Hell, even if you're not, you get the gist)
While I'm pleased MLS has, after being prodded by the SL Tribune, finally acknowledged the incident. Nothing about its "investigation", however, has yet been posted on its own website. Moreover, the emphasis of Will Kuhns' comments are unsettling..... "The issues are extremely sensitive because of what they can do to a person's reputation," said Will Kuhns, the league's director of communications. "So the league wants to make very sure it's correct" with any ruling it might make. Shouldn't MLS be less obsessed with preserving Amado Guevara's "repuation", and more focused on addressing alleged abuse toward its black players? Shouldn't the primary concern be the League's continued diminishment resulting from its own perceived inaction? Kuhns, a former Fulbright Scholar, must be bright enough to understand where the true danger lies.
You're right, it's a shame that it took an article in the paper to spark some activity, but at least it did. That makes me question though; a player tells a referree that another player used a racial slur. The Ref didn't hear it, but are there any rules/regulations that require the ref to at least log or note that the complaint was made? Or does it just get left on the field? I for one would like to think that things like that would have a place to go, or a that some sort of 'process' if you will was in place to deal with this. Or am I wrong, is it treated like any other 'infraction' - if the ref missed it, there is no record of it?
I believe Andy when he says it happened, because I don't think he would fool around with something like that. Although I'm not sure what the league can do about it if they don't have anything more than his word to go on. If that is going to be all the evidence it is going to take to convict someone, then things could get ugly. People could start throwing around the accusation just to get other players in trouble. I hope that there is more evidence for this than just Andy or I'm afraid nothing will happen.
I don't think anyone is calling for MLS to "convict someone" yet. They do need to take a higher profile public stand, and face these allegations head on. Instead, MLS seems to almost instictively assume a defensive, "damage-control" position. That's been true in the two incidents involving RSL players so far this year. MLS would be wise to look towards the UK, where The FA has implemented a very aggresive, zero-tolerance policty toward football racism.
I agree completely. They do need to take this seriously even if in the end there is nothing they can do because there isn't sufficient evidence.
For me that's the best part of the game...giving players stick and then getting it back from them when they score. Everytime Bo Oshonyi comes to town we all start beeping when he walks backwards...well last season they came back to tie the game in Dallas after we went up 2-0 and after they tied it up late he turns and walks right in front of the Inferno and starts celebrating in front of us....to me its just all in good fun and we clapped for him as he left and he clapped for us....you know you're doing a good job when you can get into a player's head like you did with Guevara and he's making gestures back at you.
The following account was posted here: I didn't hear what was said, but people in Section 37 were yelling racist at Guevara (and maybe also at the hispanic referee), so they must have heard something. For the record... Referee: Jair Marrufo Referee's Assistants: Nathan Clement; Bill Dittmar 4th Official: Richard Heron
Incident now being discussed in other threads: here, and here. In contrast to February, NYRB supporters so far seem to be taking a more intelligent tact. Very encouraging. If, God forbid, RSL is ever on the business end of an allegation, I hope we too will be as classy.
You failed to mention that those threads are hilarious (okay, so the jokes are pretty unimaginative, but still....)