Will this ever end????

Not if you open a new thread for every new piece of news it won't.

Still, anything that speeds up the move and gets this mess sorted out once and for all is a good thing in my book.

 

I think it's really just a matter of picking your poison... The Eggs/Curbs duo is getting humble results so far and suffering an embarassing loss of talent to other clubs but they seem like an honest and loyal pair that gives fans strong hope in the future.... whereas KIA/$manager$ would've guaranteed short-term success but would leave fans worried for the future (see Corinthians and perhaps Chelsea too).

 

Care to elaborate on that statement?

 

I think he means that ne'er-do-well former Captain Reo-(Why am I getting it in the ear, it's not my fault we're losing cause I should be playing for Arsenal or Man U)-Coker, and the want-away Benayoun...

unless he's referring to that stand-out shot drinker, I mean stopper Roy Carroll, or perhaps that young RB whiz-kid Ty Mears...

or perhaps he just reads too many sports pages.

But you're right about perspective Panzo.

 

I mean the loss of great talents like Tevez, Mascherano, Yossi, as well as the lesser loss of captain Reo-Coker (who I think could've been crafted into a world-class destroyer by the right manager/mentor), and all this happening while the new owner talked highly of ambition which is what makes it embarassing.

IMO these were the most skilled players that West Ham had available during the season and all would likely still be on the roster if Kia had gotten hold of WHU and quickly hired an expensive yet more internationally experienced replacement for Pardew (ex. Ranieri or SGE). If the players (particularly foreign star players) believe in a club's ambition then it's much easier to get them to stay, else it's understandable why they'd leave to play under clubs/managers that can match their hunger (except in R-C's case as his transfer was more emotionally motivated).

But regardless, I feel Eggert is opting for the 2-steps-back and 3-steps-forward approach to building the club's future and that's a slower but much safer strategy (hence why I feel Curbs is still manager).

 

While i agree that the players who have gone have been class. I believe if Kia had got hold of the club West Ham would have gone the same way as Leeds. Players like Yossi who are coming into their prime will jump at the chance of champions league. Say West Ham do ever get to the top 4 Yossi will probably be 30-31. He just maybe replaced by a better player. Tevez and Masch are a different story, Man U and the other 3 were offered them before us. The 3rd party ownership didn't bother them. It was the fact they were untried in the prem. Examples being Drogba 12 months to settle, Veron, Morrientis, Forlan and Reyes none of who really came good in the prem. The top 4 are so geared to CL qualification financially, they want their top earners proven at that level.
Liverpool should be hung drawn and quartered for tapping Yossi up. 2nd point i really wonder if the Liverpool revolution will work quickly enough. They may be brilliant but they may need time to gel.

At West Ham we are putting together a team of better quality grafters. We need the skill to glue this into a top 10 team. Walk first hopefully run later.

 

I agree with this Scout and quite frankly I am amazed that no-one has pointed it out before.

From what I can tell from the Yossi situation, Liverpool sent a few subtle messages through various channels that they were interested in Yossi, starting last summer.

They waited to see if he liked the idea and allowed the rumours to escalate. When they knew he was they started making enquiries. All this unsettled Yossi and made him want to leave West Ham. Liverpool could then make a pants offer for him for half what he is worth, ignoring the fact that he has four years left on his contract with us. This left West Ham in the position of either selling him for too little or having another disgruntled player on the squad who no longer wants to play for them.

Thankfully AC and Eggy have shown a bit of back bone with this one and hopefully he won't go for less than £5m. But would he be going at all if Liverpool hadn't unsettled him in this way?

 

If that is the case then why have Man Utd signed no proven Premiership performers this summer? The simple fact is that Man Utd were very interested in signing both Mascherano and Tevez. No doubt the other three were as well. They did not go into the agreement because of the 3rd party ownership issue and MSI. Everyone knew it was breaking the rules and therefore the bigger sides would not touch either player with a barge pole. That is the only reason they ended up at West Ham. Even Liverpool had to get the rules bent by FIFA in order for them to secure Mascherano.

 

Hardly Embrassing.
lets see now.
Parker + 1mil for Reo Choker - huge upgrade
what looks to be Appiah in for Yossi (who has been shit for us last season) - Huge upgrade
Bellemy in for Harewood - (nasty bastard but considerably better than Harewood)
the additional signings of Neill, Faubert, Upson and LBM.
Now the Tevez and Masch siuation is out of our control for the most part, so not much we can do their either way. but:

-----Green-----
Neil---Ferdinand---Upson---Mcartney
Faubert---Appiah/noble---Parker--LBM
-----Bellemy/Tevez---Ashton-----

Is far from an embarrassing side, and the best side thats worn the claret and blue for a long time. So for me the only thing thats embarrassing is your poorly researched comments.

 

This is how I see the resolution. ManU will pay WHU for Tevez. Then Kia will sue. Once the suit is lodged in court, the Kia lawyers and WHU lawyers sit down and work out an out-of-court settlement which binds both parties to a non-disclosure agreement. This allows the PL to save face, ManU to get their player (scratch that: Kia's player), and WHU to be rid of this bloody mess. Plus, the PL have no right to scrutinize the agreement as their internal rules do not supercede those of the courts.

Any ambulance-chaser can tell you that.

The papers over in Britain sure do like a good story though.

 

I haven't heard anything lately on this transfer (I mean Appiah, not that glory-hunting turncoat).

Have you heard anything new ATLIron? Would like to see Appiah in our midfield.

 

Ghana captain Stephen Appiah has asked his club Fenerbahce to talk to West Ham over a possible move to the English Premiership.

The Turkish champions are reluctant to release the midfielder, having turned down several offers for the 26-year-old.

With the imminent departure of Yossi Benayoun to Liverpool, West Ham are keen on using the money earned from the sale of Nigel Reo-Coker to enter the chase for the Ghana captain.

Appiah is reported to be frustrated at efforts being made to keep him at Fenerbahce and his absence on the first day of the team’s training camp in Austria has prompted fears of a protest from the midfielder.

Appiah said: “If West Ham United have expressed strong interest in me and I think Fenerbahce will have to listen to their offer and other offers on the table for me.

“It is public knowledge that I want to move to England in the interest of the education of my kids, who still live in Italy because of their education.

“At the start of last season I turned down several offers from top clubs in Europe just to help Fenerbahce lift the title because of my love for the team and fans.

“Even while I was injured I continued to play to secure the title so they should also take my interest into consideration and listen to the offers.

“It is only fair that having served them with all my heart they should also take my interest into consideration even though I understand I have a contract with this great Turkish club.

“I want my future to be sorted out soon so that I can make my future plans now.â€

The midfielder could have joined for Scottish side Celtic for US$11m last month, according to the Times but his reported demands for £60,000-a-week were too much for Celtic to stomach.

However, Celtic could bring Appiah back to the negotiating table if Thomas Gravesen is offloaded to English Championship side Sheffield United.

German side Schalke are also reported to have upped their offer to secure Appiah ahead of their participation in the Uefa Champions League.

 

Thanks for that ATLIron...

Ironically WHU are doing the same thing to Fenerbache as the 'Pool and ManU are doing to us over our players. Although I'm not sure we've tapped this player up, unlike some other clubs I can speak of.

But once again a player says he loves his current club and fans and admits he has a contract but still wants to move on.

Oh well, modern football I guess. I'd still like him to join us. Come on Egg get on it.

 

In SAF's own words he said he 'wasn't sure about the deal'. In other words they didn't know how legit it was so they played safe and allowed another club to take the risk. They could afford to do this safe in the knowledge that they would easily be able to lure the player(s) away after one season (if they were successful) simply because they are ManU. It's the big 'I Am' scenraio again.

In other words we pilotted this kind of a deal (or guinea pigged it) and when others were happy they had learnt from our mistakes they moved in.

If third party ownership is breaking the rules then why hasn't anyone ever been reprimanded for it? Also why would ManU be OK with the deal now?

This popular opinion of third party ownership being against the rules is completely wrong. Whether it should be is another matter but it isn't. We just done it wrong because a) we were the first to try it, b) we had a corrupt chairman and c) we are not the big rich club that ManU and Liverpool are with the clever lawyers.

 

That's a nice story and the ideal version of the future if you are West Ham or the Premiership but the problem is neither MSI, Man Utd, Tevez nor any lawyer agree. That is why Tevez and his advisors tried to get his registration and contract canceled and why Man Utd have refused to play West Ham a single penny. It is also why this will be taken to the FA and then FIFA. The deal has been 'complete' for over a month now and it is only the Premiership and West Ham holding things up. If things were going to happen as you outlined above then it would have happened last month. The time to save face has ended.

No, they and anyone with a brain knew it was illegal and that is why no-one was stupid enough to make the deal. West Ham were. You tried to cheat, you broke the rules, were caught and are now trying to pull a fast one to cover the incompetence of your club (both previous and current owners) and the league. Not even the most ardent West Ham fan can deny that. Liverpool did things openly with the relevant authorities and they were the ones who took the time and expense to sort out the legal issues, even having a FIFA rule regarding how many clubs you can play for in a season bent to allow the move to continue. That is why their move is legit and the deal for Tevez will be exactly the same.

 

First of all, unless the lawyers have phoned you for a chat you don't know what they think. I've worked with lawyers for the past 15 years and never met a lawyer who didn't opt for a settlement when reaching an impasse. Irrespective of what the papers say this is the legal way out. It is the legal way out of most contract impasses. I would hazard a guess that this will be the eventual solution. It suits all parties. All other suggestions have no merit as they are all posited on a confrontational stance, something the lawyers from all sides would be very keen to avoid. People talking about it going to courts and banging on about a legal mess are unable to give any actual legal basis for this assertion they just read some journalist saying "it's all a mess heading for the courts" and then regurgitate that. No offence intended Teso but give me some sound legal reason why this won't be settled out of court other than "that's what the papaers say".

 

MSI would win in court, of that there is no doubt but the fact that everything was agreed last month makes that situation unlikely, as does the actions of Tevez, MSI and Man Utd (from now on I'll call them the big three). The talk of involvement from the FA and FIFA is because the big three do not want to waste time by going the court route. If they felt that was the best and easiest option then it would have been done by now. Going to court would be to force the transfer, not done after it to regain the money MSI deserve. That was my point. The solution you proposed makes sense and has been dicusssed before but when you consider the actions of everyone involved it is highly unlikely.

 

But what would MSI win in court? The court would rule in favour of a money settlement for breach of contract as they have no other recourse. That is something Kia will get anyway if he settles out of court. So there is no reason to go to the courts. Why would ManU or Kia would want to go to the court to force the transfer when it's something the court actually has no jurisdiction to enforce, they can only decide on the validity of a contract and it's fulfilment.

This notion that WHU can't rip up the contract or any part thereof is nonsense. What everyone seems to misunderstand/ignore is that any party to a contract has a right to non-fulfillment of that contract. It's just that in order to redress the imbalance of an unfulfilled contract the other party has to be compensated.

Either way Kia is going to end up with his money. It's now about the process.

There do seem to be quite a few people out there, perhaps you are one Teso, who would really like to believe all the stuff they read in the papers and the conspiracy theories kicking about, but life rarely ends up being quite so exciting. It's why the papers have to embellish so much.

'Tis really a tempest in a teapot. Once all the posturing is over it wil be settled out of court.

 

You're overreacting to one word and missing the overall point... Look, you're a loyal fan and that's all about Hope, the same kind of hope that started the season for west ham and then barely avoided relegation at the end. You hope Faubert can adjust to the league and not end up a mercenary dud... you hope Appiah is signed and adjusts as well (I do rate him highly but the deal's nowhere close to a sure thing), you hope Ferdinand matures enough to put the inconsistency and antics behind him, you hope Tevez stays and that he'll put trust in Curbishley's potential despite showing eagerness to move to a bigger club with a top-class manager), you hope Bellemy has put his nutcase tendencies behind him, and you hope Ashton is the same player he was pre-injury layoff.

So there's a whole lot of question marks over that hopeful line-up you posted (even if Tevez stays which seems unlikely), and also Curbs is not the most inspiring choice for manager IMO. In addition, you unfairly downplay the talent of Yossi and Reo-Coker despite those same players figuring prominently in the great hope/ambition that WHU had at the season's beginning, so it comes off as bitter bias on your part.

But the truth is that neither of us can really say what this next season will be like as there's too many question marks at hand... it may be great but it may just as easily end in disappointment...

 

I think the bias is on your part here, and you clearly are hell bent on putting down West Ham. A far poorer side than the one i posted above ran 7 wins in 9. Now i dont expect them to maintain that kind of form, however to claim that we are letting the quality out of the club is simply not right.
I am assuming you have watch ALL of West Hams games last season, if not i have them on DVD. Yossi and NRC were shit for 99% of the entire season. Yossi only had a couple of good games at the tail end of the season. He clearly is not rated that highly by even the mickeys as they are only willing to pay 4m for him. Hardly "big" money.
Its not bitter bias on my part, its knowing football and knowing my team. Mullins, Etherington, Harewood, Konchelski, Pantsil, Bowyer and Gabidon were all woeful for us last season, and i have the same criticism for all, not just NRC and Yossi.

As to all your "hope" statements, well thats true for any club in the league. Ashton could walk in 90% of the 1st teams in the Premiership, and by accounts from the training grounds he is better than ever.
I don't hope Tevez will stay, i hope he pisses off. He is a great player but for all that skill the fact that he is joined at the hip to the crook Kia is just not worth it.
As for Ferdinand, i made a mistake there it should have been Collins and Upson in the middle. Collins was fantastic once he had recovered from injury.

Just pointing out you are talking out of your arse. Eggy and Curbs are putting the best WH side together that i can remember, and i have been a layal fan for 34 years. Anyone one that know West Hams history in the transfer market can tell you that.

 

I will state one fact about this mess and that is that Tevez will not be a WH player. If anyone remembers the John Obi Mikel case in which both Chelsea and United claimed that he was their player. Mikel wanted to go to Chelsea and after a while he went to Chelsea. I think that Tevez, KJ and United will get what they want.

 

You are spot on BusbyBabes ManU will get Tevez (and Kia ).

As for Panzo's post about hope... once again I agree. But thaty can be said for every team. I hope this players plays up to his talent, I hope this player doesn't get hurt, I hope the team can work together, I hope my team can win the league, I hope the people who own the economic rights to our new striker don't take him away, etc, etc... We're all hoping until the games are played.

As for NRC being talented? This is something that nearly all non-WHU fans seems to think. The boy can run a lot and put in a tackle or two, just don't ask him to pass the ball, or beat anyone one-on-one. His skill on the ball is not PL standard to be honest. He's your prototypical English hard-working midfielder. Sort of a modern day Nobby Stiles ('cept Nobby was a loveable character, NRC is not).

 

In answer to your question last season Fergie was on shakey ground with the Glasiers. He had to produce and he wasn't given that much leeway for extra wages or a massive transfer kitty.
Gus Hiddink himself while managing Australia told me. Two of the top 4 English clubs had approached him to see if he would be interested should they have a change of manager. He also mentioned Roman paying him 6 mill a year to coach/manage Russia.
Simple fact is that Man U or Chelsea wouldn't have sanctioned the deals last season. Liverpool knew they were in for a change of ownership being 80 million in debt. Arsenal were and still are watching the pennies after the building of the new stadium. Wenger was the only coach of the top 4 who's job was safe.
Fergie did produce very well as we know and the board sanctioned several large signings for a realistic charge at the CL title. Financially the Glasiers are in a better position. They also feel now that Fergie still has the hunger to continue on. Roman as we know has pulled his horns in. Liverpool as we also know have to sell to keep wages realistic with the new signings.
I am involved enough in the game to know last season Fergie knew he had to win something. This season he can bring in Young untried players because his position is stregthened.
Whether the respective boards would have spotted the 3rd party irregularites last year i'll never know. I also know that our old directors and chairmen were complete incompetents. I'm really going from a footballing perspective. Roman doesn't want Jose but fears if he goes half the team will go for little cash return.

 

You are perhaps the most naive person I have ever encountered on the Internet.