Will the U-17 Residency Program be moving to the HDNTC?

Starting a 2nd program in Carson would be AWESOME. Doubling the amount of participants involved can only be a good thing.

 

Re: Re: Re: Will the U-17 Residency Program be moving to the HDNTC?

Any addition is better than none. Watching the college cup final yesterday, we can't count on a Mathis coming about every couple years. This U17 thing is going to be key.

 

Tough call. I like Rongen's ability to spot players with skill. He's Dutch, but familiar with the American game. I'm not saying he's a great MLS coach or even U20 coach, I'm just talking about as a talent evaluator. I think you need someone who can evaluate talent and see who's at the level, beyond the level or who's just a little young but who'll be at the level after a couple of years. I think you need someone who has a pretty good track record of picking/developing youth players. They should also be up to date on the latest and greatest European training methodology.

Watching the college cup it's obvious we need defenders badly. It seems that when we find one who's really skilled, he's not that great athletically. When we find one who's really athletic, he's not that skilled.

I firmly believe that we won't ever get the lion's share of athletes like football and basketball does. We're going to have trouble with the bigger more physical European teams like Germany because our players are smaller. So if we're going to have smaller players, we need to concentrate on making them supremely skilled/technical. Perhaps you watched the Holland vs. Germany friendly a couple of weeks ago. I think it ended up 3-1 Holland, but they totally toyed with Germany in Deutscheland. And the Germans were still bigger and stronger but they were outskilled. That's the direction we need to head IMHO.

 

Youth Soccer Athletes

U.S. youth soccer gets some damn good athletes.

Sure no city kids except Hispanics, but the cream of the suburban crop. Which isn't just a euphimism for "Anglo" -- there are some black, Hispanic, and other ethnic kids in the suburbs, and they gravitate toward soccer, too. In the suburns, soccer is the sport for the U10 studs.

The problem, of course, is keeping the kids so that they're serious about soccer when they're U16 studs.

My kid plays tennis, too, so I know that scene a bit. I can assure you that overall, U.S. youth soccer has a far deeper, better crop of athletes than does U.S. youth tennis.

Not that we couldn't use the next 6 year old Michael Vick (we could), but I've gotta believe that there are enough athletes in the U.S. youth soccer pool to populate a World Cup winning team.

As for Wanderer's point that the U.S. seems not to be developing skilled, athletic defenders ... well, that's not surprising to me. The big, fast kids typically are put up front, to run onto the ball and score goals. Or as sweeper, to whack dangerous balls up the field or out of touch. The first option doesn't teach defense, the second doesn't teach skills.

 

We're still missing a large part of the blue collar population be it white, black or hispanic. That's where most of the athletes come from for basketball, football and baseball IMHO. And we won't approach that part of the population until soccer starts getting more coverage on Sportscenter, salaries go up etc.

Having said that, I STILL believe we have enough numbers to produce a WC semifinalist. However, MUCH investment needs to go into promoting the youth game, pick-up soccer etc. Like I said in the college thread, I'm totally amazed that 21 or 22 year old guys who've been playing soccer since they were 12 or earlier have such weak technical skills. Really weak.

That would allude to the suburban soccer player not having much love for the game other than going to practice three times a week. I can only hope that the professionals get involved in the whole youth soccer deal and players can be picked on merit and not because daddy has a fat pocketbook.

 

Blue collar to me isn't living large by any means. Living paycheck to paycheck in houses that aren't brick may not be at the poverty level, but I'd bet most of the kids out of those kinds of neighborhoods don't go to college unless their is some kind of athletic endeavour involved.

P.S., I'm only talking about Americans.

 

Practice Amounts

What age are you referring to?

At the younger ages -- say, U9 through U12 -- you're sure as heck not going to find many players in the U.S. practicing 3x per week. More like 2x weekly for 6 months of the year, little or nothing the other 6 months.

Actually, if you took good athletes from an early age and gave them 3 well run practices per week, year around, you have some pretty darned good players by the age of 12. Regardless of whether they played a lot of street ball on the side or not. (Although of course, the street ball can only help.)

But you don't see that, hardly at all.

 

Re: Practice Amounts

I think Wanderer was referring to developing a love for the game at a young age, as opposed to more practice time. The criticism of our youth set-up is not that the kids aren't working hard enough, or their experience isn't valuable. It is that they just go through the motions of being on a team without loving the game.

Its not that urban kids (assume low-income, here) are better athletes. But chances are, they are not playing (any sport) because they can afford the $75 uniform, the large tournament fees and travel, or they are trying to rack up extra-curriculars for the resume. They are playing because they are having fun doing it - thus, creating a love for the game. This is what makes better players later on.

And, contrary to popular belief, the ODP system is not failing. I think we have seen the good result of the program in recent years. However, the problem lies in the fact that only a handful of kids are given the chance to take their game to the next level around the age of 15 or 16. The U17 residency program isn't enough. Instead of 30 kids getting quality exposure at that age, we need 300.

 

I agree with your result, but not the cause. The influx of foreign talent into the NBA is not going to cause more US talent to pursue other opportunities, it's going to cause the basketball world to change their training regimen to spend more time teaching skills.

I think that as soccer becomes more and more mainstream, more of those world class athletes will stay in the soccer. Most world class athletes play multiple sports in their youth and then specialize as they get older. As soccer gets more and more mainstream, more of those athletes will stay in soccer rather than basketball, baseball or football.

 

Profiled,

If kids really based their decision to persue basketball on the likelyhood of their getting into the NBA no one would do it due to the imbalance between the number of slots availabe versus people trying for them. Everyone thinks they can be a great NBA'er, who won't get pushed out by a foreign guy, or just plays for the love of the game, so it wouldn't matter anyway.

 

Re: Youth Soccer Athletes

The league I play in has a handful of kids that play "up" and every one of them plays a defensive position. They are fast, skilled and tough but lack the "size" because they are a year to a year and a half younger. Seeing them play as guests with other teams in their own age group, they absolutely dominate. The boys I spoke to love playing defense and wouldn't switch for anything.

 

Re: Re: Practice Amounts

I think Wanderer was referring to developing a love for the game at a young age, as opposed to more practice time.

Yes, he probably was. I didn't address that item directly because, honestly, I don't know how to measure whether or not suburban children love the game of soccer.

To be sure, there isn't much street ball. But hell, there isn't much street football, basketball, or baseball, either. Suburban USA is not exactly a street-playing culture.

Does that mean that suburban USA is doomed to put out mediocre soccer players? I don't know. Dirk Nowitski sure has a lot of basketball skills, and he sure didn't pick that up playing in the mean streets of Germany. Nor did Pau Gasol become last year's NBA Rookie of the Year by shooting baskets in Madrid alleyways. Those boys were club trained, club raised.

Its not that urban kids (assume low-income, here) are better athletes .... They are playing because they are having fun doing it - thus, creating a love for the game. This is what makes better players later on. [/QUOTE]

So urban kids love sports and suburban kids don't? Hmmm.

 

Re: Re: Youth Soccer Athletes

Certainly different than my son's league.

Then again, nobody plays up in my son's league because it's a "top" league. And in top leagues, you keep your U9s playing U9s and your U10s playing U10s, so that you can win as many U9 and U10 games as possible. If the next Wayne Rooney appeared, he'd be playing in his own age group, too.

Which is a subject for a different conversation ...

 

Re: Re: Re: Practice Amounts

Right! Just kidding!

Seriously, many people believe that the formula for success in this country is to get the urban kids playing soccer. It may have appeared in my earlier post that I agree with that, but I can assure you that I don't. But I think street ball is an indicator, not because it is better for development, but the reason why somebody would play it.

I'll give you an example: on a nice day in San Francisco, you can go to almost any park and find some pick-up soccer going on. And believe me, all the games are crap. If that is what we are basing the future on, boy are we in trouble. However, you see people out there playing for no reason other than to just play. And that is what I am talking about. Take a kid from that game (who has potential), and put him in a good club, and there we have something. Enjoyment for the sport first, structured development second.

The assumption (and a big one) is that the suburban kids have so many activities and opportunities to choose from, that they are just as likely to do something else (like go to college) than to try to be a professional athlete. Likewise, you assume urban kids aren't fully scheduled in their lives, so if they are playing a sport, they are playing just to play.

It all comes down to numbers. The more diverse areas of the country we are pulling soccer players from, the better. You want a large pool of talented athletes who aspire to be professional soccer players. Then you want to have a system in place where they can see it as a real possibility.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Practice Amounts

We can all agree on that point, I think.

But we certainly don't agree on the method. For example, I advocate kicking up everybody's club soccer dues by a small amount so that ODP can become a truly need-blind program. Would be a very small amount, maybe $5 to $10 per year. Would make a big difference in opening up ODP to all deserving players. I believe that it's the right thing to do, not only morally & ethically but for the good of our U.S. soccer program.

Guess what? I'm in the minority, a) because half of all suburbanites immediately veto anything that sounds like a tax, without ever listening to your argument, and b) there are, sadly, those people who want ODP to be pulling from a limited pool of kids so that their children have a better chance.

Goals are easy; agreeing on the way to achieve them is not.

 

Re: Re: Re: Practice Amounts

I came from a more blue collar background and there's a difference to me between blue collar and URBAN. We played street ball all the time--sandlot football, baseball and tons of pick up hoops. One thing that's hard for me to understand about rec soccer players is how many of them don't watch on TV. When I was little, we played outside all the time and still watched the sports on TV. Now that I'm a 'white collar' college guy I just don't see the kids out there playing as much as I used to. But then again maybe I just hooked up with the other kids who would rather be outside than inside.

Another thing about pick-up games--it doesn't matter if they're crap or not. It just allows the kids to practice in a pressure free environment. If they lose the ball, so what, they'll get it back. Then, when kids play pick up ball consistently for a year or two, you'll start to see a huge increase in their ability to control the ball.

 

Re: Re: Re: Practice Amounts

Urban kids and blue collar kids in general see it as a way to riches and fame, and in many cases they see it as their only choice.

Ever seen French Lick, Indiana? Or the town in West Virginia(IIRC) where Randy Moss and Jason Williams are from? Or the west Texas town where Zach Thomas(Miami Dolphins all-pro LB) is from? Or ______________? (insert blue collar/urban town name). Kids from these kinds of backgrounds tend to have some serious 'I'm leaving this life and never looking back' outlook on their athletic career. Failure really isn't much of an option, and college is just a stopping point on their way to the professional game.

My dad went to high school with a guy who was drafted to play baseball right out of high school. It was either that or stay in some blue collar town and go to a trade school, so of course he chose baseball. His son now plays pro football for the Tennessee Titans and was a Butkus award winner in college. I'm sure his father's take no prisoners attitude rubbed off on him.

Suburban players have tons more options and college has been (in most cases rightly) drilled into their heads. They have more options, get scholarships to universities that are more known academically, and haven't played street soccer/ x sport like urban and rural types tend to. Combine that with MLS low start up wages, and that's why we have such a reduced professional player pool.

 

In reply to the original question posed by the thread title, the Home Depot National Training Center will be the new home of all the US national teams..This is from the original press release about Home Depot becoming the sponsor:

As the new home of the U.S. Soccer Federation, the organization will base their 11 national teams, their Under-14 Developmental Program, Coaching Licensing Schools and Referee Training courses at The Home Depot National Training Center. Included within this group are the Men's and Women's World Cup squads who have captured the attention and interest of America in such a
dramatic way. In addition to the natural grass stadium, the teams will have full use of the facility's five training fields, a practice area and a central building to house office space, locker rooms, a weight training room, physical therapy training rooms and player lounges. The complex will also include a residential component, which will allow teams to stay at the facility.

 

Thanks ... I had missed this point, and I'm probably not the only one.

IMO, this makes perfect sense. We can already field a credible US national team of SoCal players (and Mexico can field Carlos Ochoa) ...
GK Rimando
D Cherundolo, Califf, Bocanegra, Hejduk
M Cobi, Vagenas, O'Brien, Lewis
F Landon, Joe-Max
Subs Victorine, Kirovski, Razov

UCLA just won a national title with 100% California talent; Chad Marshall played a starring role in Stanford's run to the final; Memo Gonzalez is a headliner for the U-17's. We can ship in the best prospects from the rest of the country, and the local talent will give them a run for their money.