A flat out lie? Go easy, bro. Let's review: -If they're good enough coming out of college then they are put into the draft and not capable of choosing their employer, the city they live in, the people they work with, etc. -Four-year non-guaranteed contracts make it possible to be cut at any time without recieving the safety of contractual security. But MLS clubs lock the players into their wages as non-proven players even if they prove themselves one, two or three years later. -Options at the end of each year at the discretion of the league. No negotiation on salary increases. No ability to go overseas if you're sitting on the bench and miserable (like Wil John) should the club exercise the option just to keep you around. -If already under contract then there's no portability between clubs - only way to move is to be traded and player cannot influence that. In Europe, if a player "buys" out his contract, he can sign somewhere else. In MLS they still hold the player's rights which means that the player cannot freely negotiate with another club even if he's out of contract. Do they really control their own destiny? You can make the case that this salary/contract/single entity system is beneficial to the league. Understood. But it's no secret that the league contracts are far from pro-labor. If you believe that players have flexibility and ability to make decisions then you're conveniently dismissing many facts. Here's a bit of research to do from your own club.... look up Sealy, Scott. Guy has been one of the better forwards for your club over four years. He's started most of the matches that he's been healthy. He's been nothing but a team guy. Not complained. He's on the fourth year of his contract coming out of college (which values him as an un-proven commodity) and he's done well enough so that KC exercised their option on him every year, so he couldn't leave without being sold. Is it possible that he agrees that he's only worth $35,000 while he out-performed Eddie Johnson and Josh Wolff a few years ago as a second-year player and those two guys made over a $1 milllion combined? Even if he understood their superstar status demands bigger contracts, don't you think he may have wanted a small raise because he was no longer an "unproven" college player? Maybe he wanted to go to somewhere else but couldn't because he was under contract and couldn't go on trial? MLS contracts are cumbersome. Guys like Scott Sealy deal with it gracefully, but you can be sure that they're not pleased about it. Guys like Wil John perhaps need to find a bit more grace.
Also, you may want to do some fact checking: Chris Konopka and Shirley didn't find "back doors" to passports. They both had them. Shirley is from the UK, even. To play in Europe without experience is tough. Both were cut from the league - that is a blessing for guys like this in many ways because they don't have to ride out a 4-year deal hoping they get time so that they can establish a move overseas. If players that do marginally well (and hence have the option pulled on the contract), even if they choose to leave themselves, they cannot. The league has the option, not the player. Had they had their option picked up (like Wil John in years past) then things may be different and they would not be where they are now. So again, they do NOT choose their destiny when signing with MLS.
Konopka did get his through a back door way, because he's not a Polish citizen. He's of Polish descent and qualified for the passport that way. I'd consider that a "back door" way to get a passport.
Well, I'm going to bring it back on track.... Will John was selected for the Randers squad for the Danish Cup quarterfinals vs. Brøndby on Sunday.. The squad selected : GK : Kevin Stuhr Ellegaard, Emil Ousager. DF: Søren Pedersen, Issah Ahmed, Ralf Pedersen, Søren Holdgaard, Jan Frederiksen, Robert Arzumanyan. MF: Lee Nguyen, Kenneth Møller Pedersen, Tidiane Sane, Will John, Alain Behi. FW: Søren Berg, Marc Nygaard, Fabinho. The interesting part is that Randers manager Colin Todd made room for the two newly signed Americans while he left out the highly experienced left winger Carsten Fredgaard, who btw was selected as Danish 'Cup fighter' of the year 2006 when Randers won the Cup final. .
Now that you've had your say (numerous times) I'm going to say mine: This thread became nothing but troll since ~page 2 and frankly, I couldn't care less about Will John or Lee Nguyen or where they go anymore. At first I was intrigued but constant trolling has made this thread trite and boring. I dont know if you know this Ceres, but....THIS IS A KANSAS CITY WIZARDS FORUM!!!!!!!!! NOT a Will John "Update" forum!! I'd be happy to never hear his name ever again for matter of fact. So, with all due respect, I request this thread be closed and done.
So your one of the "Heineman" supporters ?... I dont really belive the "picture" some ppl in this forum are trying to paint of Will John.... Infact I found this link from when Will John moved to Kansas City Wizards... and it doesnt fit the "picture" either : http://www.soccertimes.com/mls/2006/jan11.htm .
You're ignoring my point that they don't have to sign with MLS. While they don't have a choice once they sign with the league, they do have a choice, MLS is not a monopoly, they're not the only soccer league in the world (They're not even the only soccer league in this country, ie Jay Needham), players can sign with other leagues if they want to and qualify for it. And as I stated, many players are now finding ways that they can qualify to play overseas. Or if they're that underwhelmed with the salary that they're getting from MLS they can go and get a real job (ie. Ty Harden). They do have control of their destiny. Which is why I said that you're statement was a lie. I'm not arguing the fact that some of business practices of MLS are hard on the players, especially the new ones that just get drafted. Far from it. But to say that they have no control of their own destiny is a flat out lie. Will John is a perfect example. He exercised his free will, controlled his own destiny, and left MLS to go play in Denmark. I will definitely agree though that John needs to find more grace in leaving.
He's saying all the right things players are suppose to say when you come to a new club. What's new about that? As I've said, my "picture" of Will John comes from my own personal experience of having played the guy. And if you want to call me a "Heineman" supporter, go ahead, because in my opinion, John insulted this club, and in doing so burned any bridge he had of returning to play here. Good luck to him, but I'm not going to care about how he does in Denmark.
You have horrible comprehension skills don't you. And you are totally clueless. John came to KC when the previous ownership group was here and 2 coaches ago. Again, CLUELESS. You of course don't believe the picture. You are being obtuse. WJ had every chance to win the attacking mid role last season and piddled it away. He's not good enough to start for KC - for WHATEVER reason. He's gone now. Good luck to him. But he's still a bit of douche for burning a bridge and lieing about hte current ownership and coaching regime. Again, CLUELESS about KC you are, hm? Si.
You need to look away from the "Danish Cup" standard keep on eye on the "bigger" leagues in Europe. Every week if you read a Spanish or an English newspaper and see the President of one club or another in the media showing support for their players and critical of those who are against the team (other players, managers, refs). I've read quotes from the Presidents of A.C. Milan or Barcelona ripping other owners or teams when they though they where trying to sign away their stars. Same situation; you defend the integrity of your team against those who discredit it or try to negatively impact it. Maybe in the Danish stockholder system it works differently but don't come across the pond and criticize an owner in the MLS for slamming a player who badmouths his team when you have quite a few of them who do it right outside your backyard.
MOD NOTE: (Not necessarily directed at Twhit) This thread is discussing a former local soccer talent of Kansas City and a former member of the Kansas City Wizards. It is relevant to the forum and it is not trolling to have opposing views on the topic at hand (regardless of what many of you think "trolling" is). You do not have to be a Kansas City Wizards fan/supporter to post here or to provide content of a meaningful manner whether you agree or disagree with that content. This thread will stay open as long as the discussion remains civil. Namecalling/flaming will not be tolerated and infractions will be given if anyone chooses to do so. You may not like what people have to say here but you must craft your responses/arguments to posts without the need to degrade it to namecalling and other redirect approaches that are not related to the basic intent of the posts.
This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've seen in this forum in a long time. To save everyone the trouble of reading back through all that garbage, I'll sum things up for you: Ceres has a man crush on Will John
I work for an agency and think many of MLS' player acquisition rules are holding the league back. From Atletico Madrid to Zagreb, we represent many players that are way too good for MLS or the Danish Superliga and some that are perfect for such levels. I actively discourage most agents from wasting their time making inquiries with MLS unless the player really wants to live in the US or believes it is far and away the best option for his career. However, as a youth nat and Generation Adidas target, Will could've signed with a number of lower division leagues outside of the US if he didn't want to go this route. He thought MLS was his best path to success (probably at the encouragement of his agent or Dad) and he signed. He had a choice, just like anyone else. Without a decent agent, he even could've represented himself and signed with USL-1 for more contract flexibility and more money right away if he didn't want to sign to MLS' terms. Will was already free from his contract. There was no need to make backhanded comments about the team, except to make himself feel better. I'd actually feel better about him complaining while he's under contract as that can occasionally be an effective way to precipitate a move if he's truly unhappy (more often than not though, it hampers the team's ability to move you). He could very well end up back in MLS one day, and he needs to watch his words more carefully. It is common for young athletes to make stupid statements, but it never makes it a good decision. Will's comments brought on Robb's, and he could've easily avoided the incident all together. It gained him nothing - except the support of one simple-minded Dane who compares people who disagree with him to Bush and thinks no American could've possibly seen games of his mediocre team or league.
You go and ask some English supporters or Managers what they think about club owners/board of directors who single out players in public or act like they are the Manager of the team... It will not go down well and the club have one unhappy Manager (and surely some unhappy players) on their hands. As for the Italian Serie A, then you would often think it's a joke how they manage their clubs... Players not getting paid on time (if at all), Players being told they have a future at the club, but then a week after without warning being told that they are no longer to participate at training or with the reserves, but just are to do some physical training, no doubt to force them out of the club... and since you mention the AC Milan President/Chairman (Silvio Berlusconi ) .. Is this really the kind of President or leadership you wish for at Kansas City Wizards ??... I have never said that I knew much about how it came about that Will John ended up at Kansas City Wizards, but if I'm getting this right, then your now saying that he actually came to the Kansas City Wizards before Mr. Heineman and the current ownership was at the club ?... Which also mean that Mr. Heineman was not the President at the time and dont really have a clue about what Will John was promised at the time of his arrival... So Mr. Heineman is infact attacking a player for saying something he most surely dont know anything about.. Thats just priceless... Pure 'Berlusconi'.. 1) You ned some reading glasses... It is not me who is calling ppl Euro-snobs, arrogant Europeans/Americans or is trying to poke fun at other ppls language skills... I'm not the one being paranoid.... I'm saying that it usually get ugly when the differences are being pointed out, because some ppl are not able to discuss the differences between the MLS and Europe without getting insulted. 2) I'm able to watch the mediocre MLS on Danish TV, besides several other mediocre leagues, while your not, though I'm not the one calling you simple-minded... Just think about that for a moment... I've never said that the Danish league is EPL level. FC Copenhagen would be good enough for the EPL, atleast so say the players who have played both at Copenhagen and in the EPL... Randers FC most surely would not be good enough at that level, but then neither would any of the MLS teams I'm able to watch on Danish TV. Now I know some MLS supporters will get insulted by me saying this, but I know what I see and fact is fact. .
this is what bothers me... and i assume it's what is getting on the nerves of everyone else here. "you know what you see..." and that's fact? you labeling your opinion of things as fact is a deeply flawed manner of defense. your opinion, about will john, about mls/danish league, about mr. heineman, is just that... nothing more than your opinion... and it will never be anything more than that. i have zero problem with you having those opinions (even if i disagree with them), but please don't pass off your observances and interpretations as "the way it is." by the way, you still haven't answered my question about why you're so interested in an american randers fc player when you're a danish agf aarhus supporter. now back to the issue of will john's and mr. heineman's statements. are you willing to recognize that there's a high probability that mr. heineman may have a little bit more knowledge about this issue than what we already know? in my opinion (notice i'm not calling this a fact), there's a very good chance that mr. heineman released that statement as a result of a lot more than will's little quote there. it's just that that's all that's been made public... and probably for good reason. i can see your side of the issue about ownership speaking out about a former player. in some instances, i might even be inclined to agree with you, but not this time. mr. heineman, along with the rest of kansas city's ownership, have made numerous statements about their expectations of behavior from their staff and players. this was made clear to the fanbase when they first took over the club a year and half ago, and i'm sure it was made even more clear to the players on the team. i have no problem with management speaking out and protecting themselves when a former player attempts, even unwittingly, to defame the club's values.
For those that care, Randers FC's game today can be seen over the net. The game starts at 6pm in Denmark, so about an hour and 20 mins from the time of this post.
I noticed that. Interesting. Danish Cup Quarterfinal none-the-less. Think I'll get the feed up after the Arsenal game.
[RESULT]Randers lose 2-1, John came on at half time I believe, it was a little hard to tell as my feed was choppy at best.[/RESULT]
My bad earlier, John got almost an hour due to injury. Post by a Randers fan (note link does have the result in the post): https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14069939&postcount=127