not only by achievements alone (otherwise it would be the real madrid of the late 50ies). but let us also take other things in account for example domination (did clubs just have a winnign streak or did they totally dominated at national and european level for a certain period of time). also the impact they made on the game/public (for example did the way they played revolutianized football). i will list a few teams wich can clearly be contenders. 1 :real madrid 1955/1960 a team filled with stars (di stefano, puskas, gento, santamaria, kopa, rial, del sol. 2 : benfica of the early to mid 60ies (winning just 2 europeancups but playing 5 finals in 8 years and in the other 3 years reaching the semi-finals makes them the team of the 60ies imo). 3 : liverpool from 1977 to 1985 they had an unbelievable winning streak with good players but not maradona/cruyff/best/eusebio type off worldclass players. 4 : riverplate 1941/1947 the famous la maquina wich played beautiful football. 5 : ajax 1969/1973 playing 4 european finals and winning 3. but also totally dominating their opponents in a way that hasn't been seen for a long time. 6 : barcelona 1989/1994 the dreamteam. maybe not so manny european prizes (one europeancupwinners cup and one championslaugue and one lost final) but what attractive football they played under coach johan cruyff with players like stoichkov, romario, laudrup, koeman. 7 : ac milan 1988/1994. also a team with incredible gifted players (baresi, maldini, rijkaard, gullit, van basten). teams that just missed it : current day barcelona, celtic late 60ies, man. united of the 60ies, inter milan of the 60ies, santos of the 60ies, flamengo late 70ies/early 80ies, bayern munich mid 70ies if i had to choose i would go for the golden ajax. achievmentwise they did real good. 4 european finals in 5 years winning 3. also in those 5 years 3times dutch champion and 3times the dutch cup also 1time the intercontinetal cup(the other 2 years they just did not wanted to play having no time for it) and 2times the european supercup. but more important the way they played with beautifull attacking football and if needed they also could be tough and hard. those years they imply just trashed their opponents. and the only reason why bayern muncih became also a 3time europea cup winner was because the team fell apart with cruyff and neeskens leaving to barcelona, haan to anderlecht, rep to valencia. etc. etc. if not at least 2 or 3 more european cups would have followed.
Is there any metric how the early 90s barca team comes ahead of the current one other than the personal dislike for later?
i have no dislike for todays barca. i only think the dreamteam made more impact with the way they played. they also played more beautiful imo. the tikitaka play of todays barca is at times quit boring.
Fine then change my quote to: Is there any reason how the early 90s barca team comes ahead of the current one other than personal preference for former?
Four La Liga championships in a row. Four European finals within six seasons (not matched by current Qatar team, until now). Together with AC Milan best team of Europe. More competitive era. Less forgiving. Real Madrid was still 'the regime team'. 'Revolutionary' way of playing in La Liga context. Also: 2009 Barca team already looks way different as the one now. Key players Messi, Iniesta, Xavi and Dani Alves are still the same though. Ask Guardiola about which was more important and legendary. I find his arguments weak though. It is hard to compare different eras. Don't pretend though that preferences have no part in your assessments. Just like you ranked 70s Bayern team ahead of 70s Ajax and 70s Germany team ahead of 70s Holland team in the past.
How do you rank 90s Barca ahead of AC Milan of the 90s though? That is strange. Agree that it is quite boring. It is also quite hyped and that always provokes a counter reaction by me. If pundits start to pretend that they are holy saints, shaped by la masia, how they enjoy the game and what kind of well-mannered figures they are thanks to the 'holistic' la masia education, then it is hard for me to look past all the dives, begging for yellow cards and whatever more.
Shut the ******** up with your garbage. The most biased poster on the board calling others biased. I don't want to hear your 'opinion' on Barcelona anyways.
i never said i rank 90ies barca over late 80ies/early 90ies milan. i named like 7 teams wich i think can make a claim for greatest clubteam ever. i did not rank them. later on i explained that imo the earlie 70ies ajax was the best clubteam ever for the reasons i also explained.
No schwuppe, this is "garbage" if you like: That is a false dichotomy. It is also a matter of preference to turn it around. It is the ultimate garbage to create a fictional wedge between (your) 'objectivity' and 'preference' (of the other) in this matter without resorting to facts or arguments. A concealed argumentum ad verecundiam.
really ?? does this guy really thinks 70ies bayern was better then 70ies ajax ?? bayern only started winning european cups cause the ajax team fell apart. also they where never so dominating as the golden ajax. also bayern was lucky in the 1975 final where leeds was clearly the better team.
'they also played more beautiful imo. the tikitaka play of todays barca is at times quit boring.' is an objevtive argument based on facts?
Sure i thinks so. I'd rate Ajax behind Nürberg 20s, Kaiserlautern 50s, Bayern 70s, 80s, 00s, HSV 80s, Gladbach 70s. I'm a German Nazi fanboy.
Listen carefully now, you started with accusing me of biases. Indeed, you got something in return. Funnily, you gave later on a false justification for your initial accusations. You said it was easy to call me out for a bias considering which sports I rated. But that wasn't the initial call out. It all started with accusing me of an anti-American bias, and I did not accept that. Rightly so.
Did I say it was? The answer is no. That I do not accept your objectivity does not necessarily entail that other views become suddenly objective. For some reason it seems to be an objectified reality though that 60s and 70s Estudiantes are never mentioned among the best ever despite prolonged success. But that as subjective sidenote.
you are joking but i have asked you already why do you not tell me who in you're view is the greatest/best clubteam of all time ?? cheers
Santos FC easily from 1961-65 won Brasil Serie A in a row Won two intercontinental cups in a row in 62-63 and beating benefica in both legs a team you have at number two. And won two copa libertadores in a row also.... easily the best club ever []__[]
Your list (and the teams that just missed it) looks fine, but I would add current Barca instead of the 'Dream Team' one.
Add Manchester United and Ajax of the 90s. High peak. Many great teams in 90s. Juventus can be added as well with three UCL finals and great players (Del Piero pre injury managed to forget Baggio).
No end to debating what club team is the best. But can't take a list seriously if it lacks Pep's Barca.
people people can't you read ?? i posted the teams randomly. i never said that this team is 1 and the last team is 7. please read carefully before reacting. i stated ajax is the greatest clubteam ever. as for santos imo they are a bit overrated and would eb beaten by the golden ajax, the real of the late 50ies, barca's first dream team, ac milan of the late 80ies early 90ies
even so your list is missing quite a few great club teams and I can not find your correlation as "best clubs" in "WHAT CRITERIA"? Trophies? Fame? Longevity? or play beautiful? Barca 2006-12 should be ahead of Barca early 90's Missing teams Santos 59-65 Bayern 74-76 Inter Milan 63-66 Boca 00-04 ManU 96-99
james if you read carefully i explained by what criteria.. i said literally : not only achievement wise but also measured by international and national domination and also the impact they made on the public or the way they revolutionized the game. so measured by several criteria. reason why bayern aint in there i explained. byern was internationally not so dominating as ajax. they had quit some luck. for example in the final against leeds. furthermore they only won 3 cups because the great ajax fell apart. inter milan 63-66. they won indeed 2 european cups. (same as benfica) only benfica played 5 finals in 8 years. inter also won from benfica the final with much luck. the goalkeeper had to leave the field injured and in those days a substitute wasn't allowed so a player had to become goalkeeper. so inter just not such a dominating team in the 60ies. man. united of the late 90ies. also a great team but not truly totally dominating europeanwise or played in a manner wich conquered the crowds or revolutianised the game. indeed a case can be made for current day barca but i thought 7 teams is enough. by the way please give you're vote to wich clubteam you think is the all tiem greatest ??
You can have seven teams only, but you just can't exclude Pep's Barca. It's anyway better than Barca's dream team.