Why won't Charleston Expand to MLS

I love the city of Charleston. I would think that would be a great expansion.

 

It is probably because Charleston is too small of a market for a big time league. It is also probably too from the big cities of the south so not that many people will travel 4 hrs to see a game.

 

Also the ownership has a good thing going, why would they want to give up control of their club?

 

I'll kinda give the generic reply here:

Any city in the nation can have a team (probably) if they can find an investor willing to pony up the franchise fee. Shoot, you don't even need aplace to play available as seen in the forsaken Cleveland exapnsion.

Charleston has a nice thing going. Don't get ahead of yourself. Build up, double your attendance and you will be noticed. I think you have a great program down there.

 

Blackbaud Stadium is great, but it would be very difficult to add 10 - 12,000 more seats. Plus, there is no way that there would be sufficient parking available. As it is, they share parking lots with their "parent company" Blackbaud Software. Also - the roads and infrastructure are not designed for 17,000+ crowds (Family Circle Tennis tournament down the street notwithstanding) - assuming that they could attract them. I suppose you could use shuttle buses from the tennis stadium parking - but it would be tough to manage. And Blackbaud is not even *that* close to the dense areas of Charleston's population. It is closer to the higher-end areas. I don't think that the average Daniel Island resident would appreciate 15 - 20 dates a year with bunches of fans.

I would love to see the A-League grow, the Battery get out of their funk and Blackbaud get expanded to 7,500 - 10,000 or so total attendance. That would be more manageable (especially if they closed in the Beer Garden end. There simply isn't any room for expansion on the other end and with the Three Lions Club, it would be awkward to add to the East (?) stands. Maybe you could deck over them, but I don't know if the foundation could support that kind of structure. There is room to increase the size of the West (?) - visiting stands, which are not as high as the home stand IIRC.

All that being said - it is a wonderful place to watch a soccer game and I look forward to attending many future Carolina Challenge Cups, etc on Daniel Island.

- now if the Atlanta Silverbacks do well in the new stadium they are building - you might have a more natural team for making the step up. The only problem there is that the stadium footprint seems to be pretty tiny. Someone else will need to let me know if the site is big enough to have a 20,000 seater. As it is now, Atlanta has struggled with their attendance. The location should help them as it is right near a lot of thriving ethnic communities (along Buford Highway) and also very accessible to suburb traffic (right on I85 and the I285 Beltway).

On the other hand. If MLS grows to 16+ teams and the "anchor" franchises like DC, LA, Chivas, Metrostars, Chicago, etc get to the point where they are regularly drawing between 20,000 - 30,000 fans - it may behoove MLS to consider teams in places like Charleston (it would be a stretch), Rochester and Atlanta even if they could only support 12,500 - 17,500. Those would still be good crowds and would be comparable to the attendences of lower-profile clubs in Seria A, Ligue 1, 1.Bundesliga and Prima Liga (let alone Holland or Scotland). Especially if those cities had fervant support. Plus - MLS wouldn't be losing money at that point (if all of the SSS were in place at the "anchor" franchises and they were averaging those types of crowd).

 

We've hovered in the 3K-4K range in attendance ever since we moved into Blackbaud in 1999. I won't say we could never draw MLS type numbers but given our history and more importantly, our metro population size, I don't see it happening anytime soon. While we have 500K in population, it's very spread out around a bunch of water and island people are funny, they don't leave their island unless they have to. It's hard to explain if you've never lived around oceans, lakes, rivers, streams, marshes, bogs .......

Also, we have minor league teams in baseball and hockey. They all have very solid fan bases and excellent facilities so stealing fans from them isn't likely. We also have several D1 college programs, a major ladies tennis tour stop, people spend a lot of time and money on other recreational activities like fishing, boating, golfing, hunting, etc. I won't say we're sports saturated but we might be close. And as was pointed out, I don't see our owners handing the reins over to MLS. I think they rather like the business side of running a club.

 

Not to mention by 2006 you are probably going to be the biggest fish in the pond with access to some decent players. If and when Rochester goes up, you are probably the next Rochester. If you have good leadership in place, look for people to be mentioning you for expansion in 5-6 years.

 

You mean that "big time league" that can't draw over 9k in a city like Dallas with a metro area of over 5 mill?

 

Well it is bigger than A-League and the highest level of soccer in the US. I see what you mean though.

 

Does playing MLS teams increase the draw? If the attendance at OC matches and friendlies is about equal to the average A-league attendance, then I'd say the market for the Battery is pretty stable -- fans come out for their team regardless of the competition: Richmond or DCU, it doesn't matter.

If there is a 'glamour' factor attached to MLS, such that the visiting team packs the house, then maybe there is local interest in moving up a division, if crowds of 12-15k can be managed.

Right now, the A-League is a good fit, and Charleston is an attractive place for players and fans of the game.

 

I can't see that happening. Teams like Montreal will be the next Rochester, or if we are judging that on attendance alone throw in Syracuse, Vancouver, Portland and even Puerto Rico who all are averaging bigger crowds than Charleston.

 

Charleston's owners seem to be happy in the A-league. Plus, as mentioned, Charleston's metro area is only 500k. This includes over 90 miles up and down the coast and 50 miles inland. Charelston immediate area is problably more like 250-300k I beleive it is the smallest market in the A-league and nearly averaged 4000 last year during the regular season. And as mentioned there is a lot of competition for entertainment dollars in Charleston.

Jeff Bradley fo ESPN wirting fame, posted something about Charleston moving to MLS a couple years ago. His plan was to expand the stadium (which phycially could be doubled without much trouble but like LiverpoolSC said the infrastucture and logistics would have to be looked at) and give out a couple thousand tickets to each match so our average would be right around were Dallas' was (is)

I don't think Charleston would be ready for MLS for a few years anyhow. Let soccer grow, let Charleston's fan base grow, let the US men's team do well and maybe win a World Cup, then I think we can start talking about Charleston moving to MLS.


mikey

 

How are the Stingrays doing? I'm always interested in seeing what progress hockey is making in the South, and it seems to make more and more every year.

Back to the matter at hand, when he says that Charleston would be the new Rochester, I think he's referring to more than attendence. Having never been there and relying as I am on the accounts of others, it seems like the Battery are top-to-bottom a well-run operation. Of course the stadium goes a long way. Are they profitable? I admit that I don't know, but I've never read any concern from the Charleston faithful about that issue. And considering that several clubs with better attendences are supposedly losing money, it indicates a record of success that goes beyond attracting crowds.

 

Stingrays started off strong but then hit some injury woes a the end of the seson and barely made the playoffs.

While I dont think they have made a profit, they haven't been too much in the red either I would think. We have a strong owner group (17 individuals), good sponsorships, a solid season ticket fan base (over 2000 this season) and of course a great little stadium. Charleston are in the current issue of 90:00 magazine, I haven't picked up the issue yet as I'm in England right now but from what I heard it was a good article.

mikey

 

Playing on an American Football high school stadium with FieldTurf was the kiss of death last year. We're still paying for that this year. Next year, new stadium, new name, and FC Dallas Whatevers will be back.

My question is whether or not expansion of two new MLS teams, plus possible reserve squads for every team, will kill quality A-League squads like Charleston. What happens if half of Charleston's current players end up on MLS rosters next year? We need a viable second division, and I don't want to see the Canadians take over the A-League.

 

You know players have turned down playing for MLS teams to stay in places like Charleston so it's not as if Charleston can't offer a decent wage to keep players intown.

Why do you hate Canadians?

 

Umm. With only two excellent franchises (Vancouver and Montreal), two mediocre franchises (Toronto and Calgary) and one hopeless franchise (Edmonton) - I don't think that Canada is becoming the juggernaut of the A-League just yet.

There are still many strong US franchises from a sporting and support standpoint. Granted Seattle and Rochester are likely to give way to MLS clubs in a few years - but Charleston, Portland, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Puerto Rico and Syracuse are all very successful or on the way up. Virginia Beach and Richmond have a good chance of succeeding over the next few years as well. There are also teams like Wilmington that may move up at any time to fill "gaps" in the league.

From a player standpoint. I think that there are going to be more excellent soccer players considering a professional soccer career if a decent wage is available. There are guys like Casey Schmidt or (almost) Steven Herdsman who are on the brink of going into lucrative post-collegiate jobs who may not do so if coveted MLS slots or senior A League slots are open.

There are also so many more top-level youth players who are by-passing collegiate soccer to play professionally right away. Club soccer, the advent of reserve teams and other developmental routes are going to begin supplying players directly to the professional soccer ranks as the pro game grows and consolidates over the next few years. Check out the Mark Connelly article about the top-level youth camp just held in Connecticut and the significant increase in quality and depth in the players available in a year or two. Look at the success of the program at Bradenton and you pretty much have to conclude that the pipeline for American players is able to stand up to the increase in demand that expansion will result in.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=304915&cc=5901

 

Obviously he doesn't hate Canadians - he is just hoping that by adding a few teams in other Canadian towns and injecting some spice by putting multiple teams in key markets (Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver) that Canada will create its own vibrant ten team league broken up in two conferences to cut down on transportation costs (sponsored and transportation provided by VIA Rail).

West: Vancouver Whitecaps
Vancouver Cosmopolitans
Calgary Storm (?)
Edmonton Aviators
Saskatchawan Trappers

East Montreal Impact
Montreal Industriale
Toronto Lynx
Inter Toronto
SC Ottawa

That way the A-League will be a distinct second division in the US and the C-League will be a useful developmental league for Team Canada and will provide fodder for MLS teams to crush in CONCACAF Champions Cup.

 

And you got all of that out of one sentence?

You must be a mind reader.

 

and a Canadian hater as well.

 

Do you know how long it takes to get to Toronto from Edmonton via VIArail. About two days. Get Air Canada.

 

It was joke, for crying out loud. I have no clue what his thought process was.

I am talking about the intraconference play. They can fly from East to West. I work in the passenger rail industry and VIArail is a customer, so I am a biased party.

How could you possibly construe that I am a Canadian hater from my post? I admit I should have put a smiley on the last sentence (about the CONCACAF Champions Cup thing), but why is an aspiration for a Canadian league such a slander against Canada. Think of the tiny populations of European nations like Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark. They still support multi-tiered leagues - despite the fact that soccer is not the primary/favorite sport in either nation. Granted the travel distances and population profile of Canada add a complication, but by splitting a league into conferences (as I suggested), the travel impact could be minimized. Each team would have to make two cross-country road trips per season. The rest of the time they would be within driving/rail distance of all of their conference mates. Plus - Canada would have the added bonus of derbies in key towns like Toronto and Vancouver.

This would reduce facilities costs/allow for better facilities by permitting clubs to groundshare, increase sporting attraction in Vancouver and Toronto and reduce travel distances.

Do Canadians really believe that in order for soccer to survive - you have to "piggy-back" off of a US-based league? I understand the attraction of cross-border rivalries with Detroit, Minneapolis, Seattle, etc. But if those are so requisite to the success of the C-League - maybe you could do C-League expansion teams in some of those towns should MLS never come to them (this may be beneficial to US and Canadian soccer). I simply don't see why the A-League needs to stretch from Puerto Rico to Vancouver to Montreal to Utah.