Why the US Men Will Never Win a World Cup by Beau Dure

It almost sounds like you’re describing academies. Doesn’t the level of play of academy attendees determine how long they stay? We have that here too. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around what specifically you would change here if you had a magic wand.

And btw, the Dutch failed to qualify for both Euro 2016 and WC18. They didn’t earn a point in Euro12. I’m not knocking anything about them, I’ve always liked them. But questions must be asked for how that could happen if they are supposed to be setting the global standard for player development.

 

But the next crop of American players there and already coming in have to be considered favorites to win the 2021 CONCACAF Gold Cup but also dark horses for Qatar 2022 especially if they qualify given how young their team will be then but also the fact that it is like a golden generation of talent already there

 

Ok, I’ll rephrase.

Have you ever personally felt that an American at whatever position was the best in the world at that time...or even close? I’d say there was a time when I didn’t think there was a better keeper than Brad Friedel on the planet...he played at an astonishing level many times for both club and country.

This is where I keep going in circles, though...with the sheer volume of kids who grow up playing soccer in this country, how is it possible we haven’t fielded truly elite players to date? And by extension, would Messi be the same Messi today had he been born in Nebraska instead of Argentina?

 

You guys do have elite players coming up like Sargent and Reyna especially Reyna

 

No, read my post carefully. I'm not describing academies, on the contrary.

 

So why do you leave out WC 2014 and the eliminating of the two last Worldchampions 2014 and 2018 in the group of death in the UEFA Nations league?
What's your point anyway in bringing that to the table while the issue at hand is something else. For your information it was a bloody scandal we didnot qualify for those tournements and the culprits for that were the coaches.
Qualification play has nothing to do with developing standards.
The players that failed to qualify were among others championsleague winners and finalists.

Your connecting dots that have nothing to do with each other.

 

A third-place finish in 2014 was great...the problem is the other results dwarf it.

The reason I bring up the other results should be obvious: how could a country whose development techniques are supposedly the envy of the world produce disastrous output for the better part of a decade? It isn’t just a one-off,either. Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is...a new norm? They looked fairly mediocre at times during Euro 2020 qualification. This should not be a topic of discussion for a nation that supposedly sets the development standard...

 

Really?

21 maart 2019 Nederland - Wit-Rusland 4 - 0

24 maart 2019 Nederland -Duitsland 2 - 3

6 september 2019 Duitsland - Nederland 2 - 4

9 september 2019 Estland - Nederland 0 -4

10 oktober 2019 Nederland - Noord-Ierland 3 - 1

13 oktober 2019 Wit-Rusland - Nederland 1 - 2

16 november 2019 Noord-Ierland - Nederland 0 - 0
19 november 2019 Nederland - Estland 5 - 0

2018 results in the Nations League:

Nations League 2018-2019

9 september 2018 Frankrijk - Nederland 2 - 1
13 oktober 2018 Nederland - Duitsland 3 - 0
16 november 2018 Nederland - Frankrijk 2 - 0
19 november 2018 Duitsland - Nederland 2 - 2
6 juni 2019 Nederland - Engeland 3 - 1
9 juni 2019 Portugal - Nederland 1 - 0

What's wrong with these results?

 

Could this be part of the problem?
https://sports.yahoo.com/the-privil...game-is-a-white-game-in-the-us-150024228.html
The Privilege of Play: Why the world’s game is a white game in the U.S.

Henry Bushnell
Yahoo SportsSep 22, 2020, 5:00 PM

 

All sports in the U.S. necessitate $$ for the best training. It's not just a soccer thing, though I don't know why some persist in that assertion. I guess because it's guaranteed to get clicks.

And, if you look at the USMNT, he needs glasses.

The US-raised NT is:

Forward: Jozy/Gyasi
Wing play: Puli, Morris, Weah may overtake Morris
CM: Adams, McKennie, Reyna
FB: I don't know who the U.S. raised LB would be, but RB is Yedlin or Cannon
Keeper: Steffen.

At least 6 of the expected starters on a U.S. raised NT are POC.

The "White-game" meme is sort of a bigoted dated stereotype whose basis in reality is fading fast and the only good it does is generate ad revenue for the media outlet publishing it and a small paycheck for the author.

 

I think the answer is pretty obvious. I have no real understanding how bad it is, but the article makes it clear the issue is significant.

 

It isnt a lazy article. It touches on the issue from many perspectives.

The USMNT arguement actually highlights how big the issue is.

 

it just comes down to money. There are plenty of white kids that are priced out too. More people of color because there are more people of color living below the line of affordability for club soccer. (the line of affordability is pretty far above the poverty line imo).

You don't have to be below the poverty line to lack the ability to pay for participation on a club team.

If you go into the inner cities, there is plenty of participation from Latinos and not nearly the participation from Blacks. Even many of the immigrant Blacks (Africa, Belize etc) play basketball...even if they have a background playing soccer. Why? I can make some pretty obvious guesses but other than that I cant tell you much.

Is there systemic racism? probably to the same extent that exists in many other sports. Are Blacks underrepresented in Basketball management? Baseball? Football? Other than in their own communities, I would say they probably are. How many Black coaches in NBA? College Basketball? I have no clue but I can guess it lags behind their actual representation in the game. I don't know about you but when I picture a college basketball coach or an NBA coach in my mind I usually don't picture Doc Rivers.... Try this....google famous basketball coaches and see what you get. Google famous baseball coaches.. famous football coaches. I just tried it and not one African American popped up.

Systemic racism hasn't stopped participation in traditional US sports. I don't think it is preventing participation in soccer. I do think Economics presents a barrier...I would prefer to call it systemic classism (or something similar with a better ring to it) if we are going to label it.

 

Blacks are well represented in the US National Team set up.

 

@RalleeMonkey
The issue raised in this thread is why USMNT will never win a world cup.
Of course that statement is too deterministic as nobody can say never for sure.
So the question isnot about how many poc are in the team, but how does the untapped resources get exploited. The graphs give a rather grimm picture of involvement of a sizable part of the US population.
And how does this exclusion have an influence on chances to win a cup via missing talents.

 

Yes and no. The system as set up is still a problem, but as a poster mentions above me, it's an old saw, used as a cudgel all the time, going back decades, and it's far less relevant now than it was in the eighties, nineties or even early aughts. I would agree that the pay to play situation is still a massive problem for soccer in general and hurts the development of the game, but I also think there's a wide network of scouts trying to pull players up and out and into academies now that did not exist 15 years ago and earlier. It's still a work in progress but is much better than it used to be.

To my mind this is a perfect example of a critique that still has some relevance and validity, but is also a bit behind the times, as in, it's better than it used to be, but there's more that definitely needs to be done (and in fairness, soccer still trails far behind american football and basketball for African-American athletes, I do think it's quickly catching baseball, but American Football and Basketball are the equivalent of wrapping up the last turn of a 440 meter race while soccer is just out of the blocks so to speak). This isn't true with Latin-American athletes, but it's definitely true with African American athletes. Not sure about Asian American athletes.

 

When I see the stat of 88% is (affluent) white in soccer participation for men, 7% latino and 5% black it paints a picture of missed opportunites.

 

For the record, U.S. demographics are as such:

76.3% white (white alone)
13.4% Black
18.5% Latino

That doesn't mean the MNT and WNT are doing a perfect job, but it's just worth noting because a lot of people overestimate the number of Black people in particular. Some people look at a group of 20 people with 3 Black people and say Black people are underrepresented.

 

That yahoo article was deeply stupid. It trafficked in old wives tales, urban legends, irrelevencies, and woke nonsense. Poverty as a driver of sporting success is a myth, at least in the US. As for the idea of this great 'untapped potential' among the poor, one may as well argue that there is a great 'untapped potential' in the numbers of physicists and mathematicians who come from poor backgrounds. If only more resources were poured into their education... Boo hoo.

https://timeline.com/tbd-dac9f411d72b

 

Those numbers add up to 108.2%. Seems a bit high given there are other races not included. Taking those numbers, the under representation is still very large.

13.4% Black vs 5%
18.5% Latino vs 7%

 

I'll add that the lack of African-American participation may be cultural. Are we to cram soccer down the throat of African-American culture?

Don't get me wrong, I'm stoked that a guy like Richards is an African-American from Alabama.

I've advocated putting an MLS team in New Orleans to increase the exposure of soccer in the South. I'd love to see the game grow in the African-American community. But, to a certain extent, a kind of cultural imperialism is being advocated by people who say we must have more African-American participation.

 

No question in my mind that there are economic barriers in place that prevent the complete utilization of our players resources.

I think, however that focusing on race/ethnicity is misplaced. It is a matter of correlation and not causation. Why are there so few black surfers in california? Probably has something to do with where the majority of the black population is located. Proximity is the cause...not skin color. as far as the cause for proximity....ocean front property costs a hell of a lot in California! So even surfing gets back to money. Of course there was a time when even Blacks with money were steered away from certain areas to maintain whiteness but as far as I know that was a long time ago (in the 50's and into the 60's). Now, if you have enough money you can live in Manhattan Beach in Landon's gated communty whether you are black, white or other. If you don't like living behind a gate, you can live on the strand so you can wave at all the beach goers from your front patio area. Of course it takes money. Money that most people of any color do not have.

For Black youth, it is a combination of economics and culture. I would say it is safe to say that far more Latinos play soccer than Blacks (regardless of economic status).Whether we are talking black players, Latinos, or white kids, the number one barrier is the poverty line....not the color line.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do believe there is racism embedded into US sports in general and soccer is no different but I don't think racism is the root cause of a lack of participation by any ethnic group...I think it is economics.

 

I used to live outside NOLA and there is no denying the popularity of American football and baseball in that area. Lots of players in NFL from that area. Soccer just wasn’t very big.

 

If the participation of people of color doubled, I would think there at least be double the number of high level players. The pool of players would be significantly better.

The article talked about the issues that Dempsey faced. It is great that he did, but many families cant or wont make those sacrifices. The girl's mom in the article couldnt do that because she worked at night. Luckily for her, she got outside assistance.

It is very complicated topic with many cultural angles. I didnt think it was click bait at all. I learned quite a bit from it and have been discussing the topic for over 20 years.

I think your last paragraph is the real take away. I find it odd the some are trying claim the issue doesnt exist. It has gotten better but still a long way from ideal... that is often good enough for people around here. I think this falls completely on MLS. They have fought for complete control of the game in this country. NYRB has built some courts in the NYC area, but could be doing so much more. From what I've read, ATL has done a really good job in the community. It will be interesting to see the players coming out of there in 10 years.