Why the US Men Will Never Win a World Cup by Beau Dure

Make it snappy so he doesn't get a chance to become entrenched in the new MLS youth league.

 

As fast as the Legal check will allow it to go, for sure.

You're all gonna have a field day with Jay B's thoughts on positional coaching.

 

Do I really need an excuse to drink more?

 

I started seeing the 'athlete gap' excuse and I just wanted to remind everyone that Usain Bolt and Kobe Bryant were also soccer players as kids who didn't excel at the sport. Kobe even called soccer his favorite sport. I think the popularity of basketball and football in America, which require levels of brawn and height at the professional level that exclude all but 10 percent of the adult male world population, skews the perception of athleticism. Soccer players have normal BMIs and builds that include an estimated 95 percent of the world's adult male population. When you combine that with the fact that soccer is the most popular and accessible sport in the world, the more likely explanation is the 'work ethic gap' or the 'motivation gap' that exists in American soccer.

 

Individual players often succeed or fail because of personal work ethic. But it's not a national failing, and definitely not in sports.

There are TONS of American athletes who work their ass off at football or basketball or baseball or other sports but aren't as physically massive (and often fall short because of it).

One "problem" in regards to our athletes, is that long before conscious motivation or work ethic comes into it, the vast majority of players start playing sports focused on hand-eye coordination and have little to do with any feet coordination. Even though footwork is important in those sports, no one focuses on that young. You CAN become great at a sport coming to it late, but it's a huge disadvantage

The motivation thing is true, though. Most of our kids don't think of soccer as a professional avenue. Even the top players are often in a situation where it was originally posited as a route to college. The kids who are looking to sports as a career tend to choose other sports.

It's not that the US lacks for motivated, hard working athletes, though. They just don't choose soccer young (because few do here) and they tend not to choose it older, because the pathway isn't clear and the culture doesn't lead them there.

Regarding the Kobe example, I don't think it says anything to your point. Kobe went to Italy at 6. His dad played basketball and the such, so he played around with basketball when he was developing motor functions, but soccer came at the tail end. He came back to the US at 13 and focused on basketball, but even before then he was literally coming back to the US to play in camps.

He may have liked soccer more, but basketball was always the focus, and it's not like he stayed in Italy and played soccer until professional age.

I don't know if Kobe would have been a world class player. There are points where height and center of gravity can work against you and he's 6'6". But to act like he didn't is some evidence he couldn't have is weird. The point has never been if you took Player X and made him player soccer today he'd be amazing.

The point is that if a large percentage of Americans actually played from day one, and took it seriously, we'd produce a ton of top players. With 330 million people, a culture that prioritizes sports, and a lot of cash, that's not a crazy thing to say. It's a cultural thing more than anything. But not because Americans are lazy or lack motivation.

 

Kobe was the 6"7" son of a professional basketball player. Even if he was born to an Italian, he probably plays basketball. Kobe played soccer enough to know that he is better at basketball.

We don't need to convert guys who could actually be NBA players, we need kids to play enough to know if they are any good. I want future Julian Edelmans to want to play soccer.

 

Whether it's Julian Edelman or a 6' PG or a 5'11" CB who would be a backup in those sports or even just a D-1 star, etc.

But it's a matter of culture.

 

Guile.

 

Is soccer in the States for young talents enough a cut throat environment to get the best emerging?

 

I'd say it's starting to and in some parts of the country it already is.

Another point I'd like to add is that the opposite where a kid starts in soccer and moves to other sports seems to work pretty well (admittedly based on some stories I've heard and not a study) as those foot skills help them over kids with out. Probably if they wait to long in basketball and don't get enough reps with a ball in their hand they'd be limited to shooting and defensive positions but soccer players are more fit and their foot skills translate well to any sport.

 

Interestingly, the old residential program apparently was very tough, with cuts every couple of months.

 

I've never believed the cutthroat environment to be a good way of realizing potential. It is one way, not the best, imo. It leads to neurotic play on gamedays.

 

Hell no.

If you dropped any of these "World class DA" teams in your country, the American kids would piss their pants at how aggressive and intense they play.

 

This is from 18 months ago. There was another trip in 2019 where the players said similar things but cant find.

FCD is one of the best we have but they are still a long ways away. We have no where near the competition. I dont know why people insist on repeatedly claiming how close a few clubs are.

Thomas Roberts @ 2:55: "how each and every training session you come out here 100% knowing that it is going to be a battle every day and that, um, everyone competes, and that's different here. that is the different part about the US and Germany or here at Bayern."

Dallas --> Munich

We followed three @FCDallas homegrown players as they trained with our team in Germany. pic.twitter.com/LCiBRuqWce

— 🇺🇸 FC Bayern US 🇨🇦 (@FCBayernUS) October 20, 2018

 

This may be the best thread this forum has ever had. Lots of really interesting talking points to unpack and dissect. Apologies if these are a bit random, but it’s a good place to spill out my thoughts on several topics.

Let's start with youth development. I played in youth soccer leagues growing up, and almost every other kid I knew did the same. Participation is not a problem. And when you look at our YNT results...yeah, we have yet to win a WC at the U20 or U17 level. But the US teams are almost always competitive. 2013 is the only year I can remember us getting completely steamrolled. Otherwise, the US basically almost always makes the knockout rounds and is competitive in every match. Our YNT opponents have never come across as vastly superior from a technical standpoint to me...so my thought is why doesn’t this translate to the senior level? From the time U20 players move past that team to when they become part of the USMNT pool, something isn’t happening with that final stage of development that does happen with the elite national teams there. I can’t put my finger on what.

It’s hard for me to fathom how in a country of 330M people (and hence a higher volume of kids playing soccer growing up than any other country in the world) we haven’t ever produced elite players on the world stage. I’m not talking about generational talents like Messi or Ronaldo...I mean I can’t think of one day in my lifetime where I’d have said “yeah, this American player would be a lock for the current World 11 if selections were made today.” Why is that?

Is the issue improper youth development? Bad coaching? Wrong youth club structure? I don’t know. I’ll tell you one thing we have never had and I’d love to see is a truly elite HC of the MNT. JK was probably the closest we have had...his results speak for themselves. If I was in charge of the USSF, I’d literally be harassing guys like Klopp or Diego Simeone day and night to the point where they’d have to file a restraining order to prevent me from attempting to sign them. I want to see what an elite coach like that who knows how to get the most out of his players could do with our group. Maybe the missing piece really is that simple.

 

Nope. That stuff isnot rocket science and can be copied from the top developing clubs.
What's missing is the stage to put in practice what you learned in real competition against adult professionals who's job is playing soccer to get the mortgage payed.
That environment is a pressure cooker to prove you're able to perform and show what you got for real.

 

I’m not sure what you mean. Be very specific.

We have a (admittedly very substandard) pro league in the states that does what you described. What exactly is missing from the US picture?

 

We don't have anybody in the best world xi because he would be found on the playground in another country. We don't have playground soccer. We have playground basketball. We have swimming pools in every backyard in parts of the country. Walking and skiing happen at the same time in Norway (as long as global warming can be held off). In Canada, at least in the old days, you could probably walk into the woods not far from any home and find a frozen pond and kids playing hockey. You can devise all the stats and systems you want but there's no secret there to be found. The well kept secret is playground soccer.

As far as HC is concerned, I believe it is still true that no team has ever won the WC which was not managed by a person of the same citizenship as the team. Culture is important. Americans tend to be very top down in sports. Klinsi said as much when he complained that Americans were always waiting for timeouts to get instruction in soccer when there are no timeouts except halftime.

 

IMO this is due to Americans being over-coached, and over reliant on coaching in our main sports. This isn't something exclusive to American Soccer. We see it in American football with players looking to the sidelines for the play or audible. It's one reason for the influx of European talent into the NBA.

That reason is creative thinking. Being able to problem solve and work through problems to find a solution. Rather than having the solution given to you by the coach/teacher.

This is the part of the game that is holding our players back IMO. America already produces some of the most athletic players in any sport, soccer included. Our athletes lack the creative thinking to solve the puzzles presented them. Instead of fostering creativity, our coaches stifle it at all levels.

Youth coaches are by and large about winning, and running drills. Not only running drills, but running them "properly." This can take the fun out of the game. When a game or sport isn't fun, how likely are kids to play that game on their own outside of practice? On playground, in the street...where they really develop the skills that set them apart.

Two Prime examples in our sports:

College basketball, When things go sideways for Tony Bennet's UVA teams, what happens? Most of the time the players don't know how to solve the problem, there's no plan B. When the system works, everything is great. When the system isn't working the players have been stifled for so long that they can't figure out on their own how solve what's being thrown at them.

College Lacrosse, Maryland has won ONE national title since the 1970's despite being located in the mecca of the sport, and having some of if not the most talented LAX players in the country year after year. What gives? Their coaches have by and large coached the creativity out of them. Tillman has them playing a slow down, methodical game. He's coached their creativity and free thinking out of them. Sure, they grind out results in the regular season, but come tourney time....shit goes sideways, and they have no answer.

Now compare that the Triangle motion offense that Phil Jackson used when he coached the Bulls and Lakers. That offense needs smart, intelligent, creative players in order to be effective. Players have to read the defense, and the players around them and react accordingly.

There's a reason that many pro footballers the world over are big fans of the NBA and pro basketball in general. Both games are player centric and rely on creative thinking.

Reyna and Pulisic are the rare exceptions in US Soccer. Same with Clint Dempsey. The US has athletic, physically gifted and average lunch pale players in spades. Our country is great at producing those types of players. The US Soccer system rolls out Will Trapps* every year. Foreign clubs aren't beating down the door for the Will Trapps of the world, they produce better and cheaper versions every year in their own backyard. The creative difference makers (the Reyna's, & Pulisic's).....those players are extremely rare, and usually are the product of former pros.

*I'm not knocking Trapp's achievements, he's paved the way for future US players. That said he is an average pro soccer player when compared to his counterparts across the globe.

 

The testing ground for young talents must be at a level that is close to the top level. In the Netherlands the young teams of our top clubs (Feyenoord stupidly declined when the offer was made to the top clubs and we pay the price by seeing our top talents lag behind those of the clubs that did join our second tier!!) play in our second tier. This is a tier consisting of clubs of which about 8 clubs regularly are part of the Eredivisie and striving to return there. This element puts those youngsters in an environment that is highly competitive and differs from youth competitions in that the opponent isnot in for nice play and letting you do your thing. They put you to the test if you can produce your youth qualities when you're being bullied, kicked etc.
I have no clue about the quality of play in the tier below mls, but the fact that in our second tier promotion is at stake means our young team players face Eredivisie like opposition from a couple of teams.
Top coaches from Spain, England and Germany have said they envy our top clubs for that possibility to mature our youngsters that way.

 

This was mentioned by American kids who as part of the cooperation of Feyenoord with American soccer education entities like St Louis Scott Gallagher Illinois visited the Netherlands. They played matches and noticed that when they were called to the sideline by the Feyenoord youth coach and asked what they thought went wrong and what to do about it differed from what they were used to, namely being told what was wrong and what to do. In other words they were challenged to think for themselves.

 

It should be noted that these lists are generally dominated by World Cup title contending nations. Outside of the World Cup winners, and the most serious contenders otherwise (Netherlands and Portugal, namely), it's very rare to find any nation with more than 1 or maybe occasionally 2 players ever having appeared in an official World Best XI over a 15-20 year period.

(For example, try to find any others across these two lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Team_of_the_Year and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFPro#FIFA_FIFPro_Men's_World11).

But yes, I've always found it frustrating that most every other top 25-30 nation seems to have had at least one player in serious contention for World 11 recognition, and we've never really had any. Though prospects look a lot brighter than they ever have right now.

 

What about at the first World Cup? We came in third (or fourth as there was not a third place game then. Bert Patenaude scored the first hat trick in a World Cup in history. Surely he was in the first 11. Sure it would be nice to have one less than 90 years ago but we were kind of a power before the WC became a thing.

 

One thing I'll point out about the '30 World Cup is that the format of that tournament was so different that we only had to play two games to reach the semi-finals, where we were then thrashed 6-1. (According to Elo, the two teams we played en route to the semi-finals were ranked 16th and and 30th in the world at the time, while we were ranked 15th, but I don't know if there were enough games back then for that to be a reliable measure.)

But of course this is all well before my time (and..uh I assume anyone else's on here), so I'd be very curious to know if Patenaude or any other USMNT player was actually considered among the world elite at the time.

 

Why do you believe that because the US has a large population it should produce top players? By that logic, China and India should have produced many world class players. Even if 5% of the Chinese played soccer seriously, that's more participants than some whole nations.