"Why the US could turn green"

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by purojogo, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Economic worries could force the US to re-think its policies

    Couple of excerpts from article:
    .....
    "But none of this is evident. Where people on other continents feel the pressure of the crowd, Americans take in what seems deceptively like limitless, virgin territory.

    It is also a country, a continent, of extreme climates.

    This land freezes in winter and is scorching now - even with snow on the peaks around. That, too affects the American perception of climate change"
    ......

    And neo-conservatives are worried that importing oil means relying on hostile regimes, which moreover, might funnel some of the dollars to anti-American causes. The is what the neo-cons call a "terrorism tax on the American people"
    The former head of the CIA, James Woolsey, for example, drives a Toyota Prius, powered partly by a battery rather than the notorious internal combustion engine which burns gasoline and emits the smoke that many scientists believe causes global warming.

    Mr Woolsey, no tree-hugging liberal he, drives this cleaner car for what he calls "national security reasons".



    What do you guys think of this article?
     
  2. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's why he's the FORMER head of the CIA. I hear the current head drives two H1 Hummers simultaneously, giving him 3 MPG. He has three parking spaces.
     
  3. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    This was actually talked about a bit, at least as early as this January (Woolsey's Prius was used as the prime example in the Slate piece as well) and it is good to see neocons recognizing the importance of weaning themselves off dependence on Saudi oil. Of course, there's that strange bedfellows angle, but if we can conserve energy, I'm not too worried about the intent. And if the neocons can convince Detroit to invest more in alternative fuels/reduced emission, then fantastic.
     
  4. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Yeah, I'm sure he's not the only government offical driving a decked out, gas guzzling SUV to work everyday.

    Doesn't Kerry drive a few SUVs?
     
  5. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    The drag he gets from the oversized American flags doesn't help the gas mileage much, does it?
     
  6. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    I think it's a load of crap. The author states that if the US becomes as smart as he then it might turn green. We have these lovely statements,

    Apparently the author doesn't realize that turning pens is a big deal in the US and the natural look is appriciated for aestetics. Not for the enviroment. Natural is a compliment of how it looks not a statement of the effect it has.

    Trendy areas? What an ass.
     
  7. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The author seems to be blurring the lines between environmental issues and national security or economic concerns. I'm all for finding alternative fuels, if only to get the jihadists out of my life and to lighten the hit my wallet takes every time I fuel up. I could give a rats SS about the environmental issues, because those are trumped up and exaggerated.
     
  8. heybeerman

    heybeerman Member

    Aug 2, 2001
    Chicago Burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I disagree. There has to be a balance between energy exploitation and the environment, before it's too late. Do you have kids?
     
  9. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Not yet
     
  10. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    I agree. The problem with the environment topic is the "tree hugger" esterotype it carries (Ian, I know he's referring to your post, but this isn't being focused at you...).

    Paper or plastic? I go with plastic. It's easier for cashiers (faster) and the customer (mutiple ways to reuse them). You can recycle both, so that isn't a problem. Although, I have noticed that the more "green" people like to use canvas bags. Personally, I think that's a bad idea because they stink. People don't wash them and makes it hard for the cashier.
     
  11. heybeerman

    heybeerman Member

    Aug 2, 2001
    Chicago Burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It really makes you care a whole lot more about the future, like what kind of mess are they gonna have to inherit. There are so many horrible things that we are doing to our planet it really makes me wonder. I live in Chicago. I rember when I was a kid the horizion was nowhere near as polluted as it is now. The earth can only fix so much. The rest is up to us. I could go on for hours about how were messing the place up. This is by far my largest concern.
     
  12. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    I'm sure that as technology improves, there will be less pollution. I'm sure people said the same thing when they had coal and oil power plants. We now have hydroelectric, nucular, and wind power. We don't have factories producing crazy amounts of smoke. Cars will eventually produce little or no fumes.Things will get better.
     
  13. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not a parent and am probably a decade your junior and I remember when the horizon was much cleaner too. The problem has gotten much worse within the last 10 years. Imagine what it might be like in another 10. Chicago's air could resemble LAs.
     
  14. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he was trying to point out that the woman didn't know what she was talking about. It does seem a bit of a fluff piece.

    That said, my wife and I plan to build as "green" as is feasible when we construct our new house. SIP "framing", bamboo floors, fiber cement siding, rainwater collection, passive solar, ERVs, geothermal, and even electrial wiring to allow computer AI to regulate building systems are all under consideration. There is a price point consideration, but we are interested in a) "sustainable building", and b) reducing building operation costs (fuel usage, etc), and are willing to spend a little more to achieve those goals.

    It's a little discouraging that these kinds of construction practices aren't more widespread, but they seem to be growing in popularity/acceptance.
     
  15. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Damn hippies.
     
  16. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heh. I did trade in my Audi A4 for a Honda Civic, primarily because of rising fuel costs (secondary reason - maintenence on a 97 Audi is expensive enough that should anything major break, you might want to consider selling a kidney). Couldn't afford the Hybrid tho - my wife is getting her MBA, and we are stretching my salary already to afford our very nice condo and my wife's very expensive hobbies/tastes.

    I doubt I can get her fully on board with stuff like Sarah Susanka's "The Not So Big House" - she wants something more "traditional" looking - but she's mostly on board with the sustainable construction. She's skeptical of stuff that isn't widely used like SIP construction and fiber cement siding, or passive solar (if it impacts "traditional" astetics) but she likes the idea of bamboo or cork flooring, standing seam roofing, composting the horse manure, etc.

    What's really funny is, I'm the meat eater, and she's vegetarian+ / vegan-.

    (Maybe I can get her to agree to this house, which at first blush I *love*. Probably be pretty damn expensive to build, tho...)
     
  17. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    That's a pretty nice crib Fooshino. I'm not to big on the exterior, but I love the interior.
     
  18. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love that style house. LOVE.

    I think fiber cement siding is a damn sight better looking than vinyl or aluminum, both of which I loathe.
     
  19. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Wait until you buy the house. If you're like me you'll wonder how you ever ended up living in your wife's one and only favorite house and you have the garage.
     
  20. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    It looks like a house built in the late 1800's or early 1900's.
     
  21. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So does my wife, it turns out. It looks perfect for our lot, and it's SIP, got a standing seam roof, a terrific screened porch... it's only missing a basement. It also looks like it's got decent passive solar characteristics for how it would sit on our acreage.

    I'd have to see if we can modify the plan to accomodate a basement, and see about adding in rainwater collection. If so, we *might* have a winner, after we scale back the interior finish details to a level we could actually afford.

    Of course, our next car (ie, not the farm truck, when we get it) will almost certainly be a hybrid, unless something better has come along in 5 years or whenever my wife's CR-V gives out.
     
  22. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I have kids, and I live just up Cicero from you in Oak Forest and I recall looking over any number of overpasses or down Halsted and could see the skyline from 20+ miles away and it was clear, now it is hazy and very rarely do I get to show my kids the view I had 10-15 years ago.
     
  23. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    In Seattle, it's just as bad. The Olympics just aren't as visible as they were when I was a kid -- even 12 years ago, the visibility was noticeably worse.
     
  24. heybeerman

    heybeerman Member

    Aug 2, 2001
    Chicago Burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I was thinking the same thing... no living quarters above the garage, which at some point you will need.
     
  25. heybeerman

    heybeerman Member

    Aug 2, 2001
    Chicago Burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    There are so many factors involved here. With more people being created and less oxygen being created we are going to have problems. Also foliage "eats" pollution and there isn't as much of it anymore. The earth is saturated and can't take any more. Species are going extinct. This kind of thing doesn't happen overnight, it takes years and then it hits you.

    I certainly applaud the new energy technologies coming out and I hope you are right. But I feel the government is not doing its share, in fact going the other way in most cases. Perhaps the fact that the world is running out of oil will push it along. Hybrids are popular and will help dramitically. But...we need to stop burning fossil fuels completely. Fuel cells, hydrogen conversion technology with the by product being water.... those things are good. Strict recycling laws.... Just putting a deposit on cans has consideribly cleaned up Michigan.... Every little bit helps.

    I'm not paniced but definitely concerned.
     

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