Why the path to victory for Republicans is aLOT more complicated than "appeal to Latinos"

Discussion in 'Elections' started by superdave, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
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    #151 Sounders78, Apr 17, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024

    Your terminology is incorrect. First, Hispanic does not refer to people from Spain or Portugual - they are Spanish or Portuguese. Hispanic refers to the descendants of Spanish-speaking people in the Americas and by definition excludes Portuguese-speakers, such as Brazil. Brazilians can be considered Latino/a by some, because they speak a Romance language that comes from the Iberian Peninsula, but they are not Hispanic.

    I also add those modern African nations did not exist when the ancestors of African-Americans were brought to the continent. As such, it would make no sense to use the terms you suggest.
     
  2. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    Growing up the term "iberoamericanos" would be used in school to lump everybody together from Mexico to Argentina, including Brazil.

    It was understood that this did not include Belize, the Guyanas or Jamaica and Trinidad & Tobago. So pretty much everybody that was ever a Spanish or Portuguese colony, and nobody else.
     
  3. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    https://library.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/africa/maps-continent/1644 blaeu.jpg

    Benin, Congo, Guinea, Cabo Verde existed in 1644.

    https://library.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/africa/maps-continent/1710 moll.jpg

    Negroland, Ethiopia, Guinea, Benin, Ivory Coast, Congo, Angola,

    Interesting, in Guinea existed Slave Coast...

    https://library.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/africa/maps-continent/1787 clouet.jpg

    Brazil had many people who arrived from Angola, Mozambique - Portuguese language.

    It was just easier to erase their heritage and to create the term African for everyone.
     
  4. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    Hispania was an ancient name during the Roman Empire conquests. Residents of todays Spain and Portugal were mostly Celts before Roman Empire and Arabic conquests. European history isn't erased like African-American, areas of Latinos, Asiatic people...only Europe has the authentic historic periods. Celts, Picts, Vikings, Belgae, Helveti, Etruscans, Lombards...etc.

    States in Africa were formed.

    For example, Panama was Colombia until 1903. Today they are Latinos, just like anyone else.
     
  5. chaski

    chaski Moderator
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    For US Census, Hispanic includes people from Spain.
    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/hispanic-origin/about.html
    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/05/who-is-hispanic/

     
  6. chaski

    chaski Moderator
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    The Andes have authentic historic periods - Moche, Nasca, Wari, Tiwanaku, Chimu, Aymara kingdoms, etc. :geek:
     
  7. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    Depends on how you define history. If it's based on most information about the society coming from written records, then no.
     
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  8. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
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    No, no, only White people have "authentic historic periods."
     
  9. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    History, if defined by writing providing most info about the society, is longest in West Asia and Egypt. European history wouldn't start until a couple thousand years later.
     
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  10. chaski

    chaski Moderator
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    “Way back in history 3000 years
    Back ever since the world began . . . “
    — Chuck Berry
     
  11. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Right-- without those written records we'd have no idea how old Methuselah was or where the Garden of Eden was located...
     
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  12. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
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    But, it's not really authentic.
     
  13. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    Little known "biblical fact", Methuselah supposedly "leaves the living" the year the Great Flood supposedly starts about 2348 BCE. In other words, Methusaleh was supposedly around after the Great Pyramids were built and after Stonehenge took shape. Even more amazing is how the Great Flood didn't destroy the latter and Egyptian civilization continued unbroken even though every last one of them supposedly died!



    Not sure what you mean by that (I assume it's sarcasm). Those early hieroglyphs and cuneiform tablets are quite authentic, but maybe not very exciting to read as they typically focus on administrative stuff. It took a while before cuneiform was used to record literature.

    Personally what I find fascinating is how writing in Mesopotamia took so long to develop (we have the various stages of it), while on Easter Island it appears to have been the result of one genius on the island.
     
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  14. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
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    Probably shouldn't go on, but I'm mocking him for his Euro (White) focus while some kind of written (which depends on how "written" is defined) language, and thus history, goes back multiple thousands of years (5000?).

    I didn't know that about Easter Island, but, yeah, that always struck me as odd how long writing in Mesopotamia took to develop considering the relatively large population and trade. It also amazes me that written language didn't develop in China earlier, as well.
     
  15. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    With rare exceptions (such as Easter Island), writing was largely dependent upon the development of state societies. The earliest development of those were in Mesopotamia and Egypt. China and South Asia were next in line. State societies may have been predicated upon larger population densities, perhaps combined with environmental considerations that necessitated new technologies, which took longer to occur in some regions. [There are a lot of suggestions for "why" state societies developed]
     
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  16. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
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    You are too kind/patient.

    I would have added a bunch of unnecessary “you f********ing idiot!!!”s to my response.
     
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  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

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  18. argentine soccer fan

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    Your source casually mentions some Univision polling data to come up with those numbers, but I don't see any link to Univision. He seems to be mostly focused on whether in the NY Times polls the Latinos were interviewed in Spanish or in English.

    While it's true that there are some general difference in attitudes that have been measured between Latinos who speak only Spanish and Latinos who speak only English, it is a fact that most Latino US citizens do speak Spanish, and furthermore that more US Latinos speak both languages, and identify themselves as bilingual Latinos than as either English speaking or Spanish speaking Latinos. I would venture to guess that most Latinos - like myself - are very capable of responding to pollsters in either language.

    So, it might be a good idea to look more closely at that Univision polling that he mentions, to see what those numbers that are cited by your source really mean, and how relevant they are.
     
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  19. argentine soccer fan

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    The term Latino has generally been accepted in Latin America (America Latina) by Latin Americans (Latinoamericanos) to identify ourselves since the 19th Century, and it is meant as a pan-national, pan-racial term to identify the common identity shared by those of us who come from the different independent nations that emerged from the Spanish and Portuguese colonies in the Americas.

    Only recently there has been some controversy from some innovators who see words ending in the letters O or A as symbols of a patriarchal society, and for that reason want to impose on us the use of "Latinx" instead of Latino/a.

    I like the term Latino/a and what it stands for, and prefer it to its synonym Hispanic (Hispano/a). We didn't use Hispano where I come from.
     
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  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    Many years ago I saw a polling that got a similar result, the dividing line is what is the primary language they use to communicate at home.

    If it's mostly English, they get the 50/50 rep/dem

    The more Spanish is used the more pro Democrat the response will be.
     
  21. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

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    There is a way that Latinos are measured demographically that uses what is called "dominant Spanish speaking" or "dominant English speaking" households.

    Although the majority of Latinos in the US are bilingual, if we use such a clarification, a majority will define ourselves as living in a "dominant Spanish speaking household", followed by those who will say "both", and a smaller minority that will say "dominant English speaking household".

    This poll is old, but it's the best example I found of what I'm talking about:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2012/04/04/iv-language-use-among-latinos/#:~:text=Which language is more dominant,just 6% are English dominant.

    So, if the assertion we are discussing, (that "Spanish speaking Latinos" strongly support Biden and "English speaking Latinos" are more likely to support Trump), is based on this "dominant Spanish/English household" designation, then that would be very good news for Biden.
     
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