News: Why MLS thrives in PNW ....

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Fiosfan, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. Fiosfan

    Fiosfan Red Card

    Mar 21, 2010
    Nevada
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why MLS thrives in PNW
    Soccer America
    They are a major shot in the arm for MLS and soccer in general. With them on board MLS leapfroged a few decades ahead.

    No minivans or orange slices: PNW soccer is cool -
    USATODAY.com

     
  2. blockski

    blockski Member

    Feb 13, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

    These teams have used good facilities to leverage nice fan participation from the get-go, building off all of the mistakes made by other clubs in other markets.
     
  3. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    I think its interesting that there have been so many articles written about what Seattle and Portland and Vancouver are getting right with their launches, but nobody is talking about what it will take to sustain their momentum.

    It is great that all three franchises have great fanbases and local mindshare already. The challenge now is to keep it and grow it. To that end, I offer all three front-offices the following free advice: study what Toronto has done, and then do the opposite.
     
  4. yellowbismark

    yellowbismark Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It doesn't hurt, either, that 2 of those 3 teams have given their fans something to be excited about by not sucking hard.

    Unlike Toronto, who's history is starting to look worse than the MetroStars'.
     
  5. Kejsare

    Kejsare Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Mar 10, 2010
    Virginia
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the "urban techie" argument is overplayed. Instead, there was a foundation laid and tended to all these years, starting with the NASL teams. It was no leap, just a rise of the tide.

    MLS decided not to have any continuity with NASL days [and Nike providing team names] while these newer teams are trying maintain some continuity.
     
  6. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    I don't even need to read the article to answer this one.

    Its because the PNW teams (like every expansion team since Toronto, you know ones that aren't in the PNW) have been able to sit back for more than a decade and see what works and what doesn't work and apply those marketing tactics.

    Its because the original teams laid the groundwork to show that soccer can survive in this country, thus attracting sponsors to the league.

    Its because the league has gone from paying money out of their own pockets to have their games broadcast on television to having 3 national TV deals that pay them millions of dollars each year.

    That's why.
     
  7. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    ...I also think Philly and the SOB's aren't exactly chopped liver.

    TFC just has the modern version of MetroStar management.

    If DC had a stadium they would have been cool first.



    I also think Seattle and PDX aren't trends. I wonder about Vancouver and Mon-real. I think they will have decent fan bases in general, but I'm not sure the will be grand slams fro the long haul.




    ....and what GVP said.:)
     
  8. Michael K.

    Michael K. Member

    Mar 3, 1999
    There or Thereabouts
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cheap and totally off the mark. On balance, TFC is doing quite a bit worse than the Metros ever did in their first half decade of existence.

    The Metros made the playoffs 3 times in their first 5 years. In the 5th year, they finished first in their division and came within a whisker of the MLS Cup final. Forget TFC's inability to make the playoffs thus far - do you seem them matching that this year?
     
  9. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    Yes, one thing so many critics ignore was that the three teams were hugely popular in the NASL as well. There has long been a love for soccer in this region - it's not a new phenomenon. In fact, it's worth noting that Vancouver's average attendance is actually lower than what it was in NASL days (22,962 in 1979, 26,834 in 1980 and 23,236 in 1981) and Portland's is actually lower than at it's NASL peak (20,166 in 1976 - of course, the stadium limits the current attendance).

    I'm wondering how much the counter-cultural aspect of soccer has to play in its long history of popularity in this region. Looking at the foundation MLS teams have made (which is important) is not sufficient. Soccer was popular here long before MLS. If memory serves me correctly, Washington state has the largest number of registered youth players per capita in the USA.

    There's a reason soccer is big here, I'm just not sure what that reason (or reasons) is.
     
  10. Fiosfan

    Fiosfan Red Card

    Mar 21, 2010
    Nevada
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you stopped short of saying that PNW invented the beautiful game...:):)
    But go ahead and bask in the glory...
     
  11. yellowbismark

    yellowbismark Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wasn't strictly going off of playoff appearances (or lack thereof) when I made the comparison. I was more so comparing the frustrations of the team's respective fanbases in the beginning years.

    Playoffs also used to be a gimme in the 90s, if your team missed them twice in their first five years that's pretty remarkable, I'd say. If Toronto had 80% odds to make the playoffs, they would have missed in 07 and 08. In 09 the odds went down to 66%, so they would have missed there as well. They would have made them in 10. So, you're right - but I wouldn't say I'm totally off the mark. As the pattern is playing out, it is starting to look worse for TFC (which is what I said anyway).

    Also, I've never taken digs at the Metros - I've always respected their loyal fanbase for what they had to go through.
     
  12. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What part of the PNW is Vancouver in again? Ah yes, the PSW part. :) I guess Cascadia is too confusing.

    Here's a key for the teams as well: even as they marked to this core constituency that has helped build the atmosphere, they haven't not marketed to families with minivans. To pretend the choice was either or is silly.
     
  13. westcoast ape

    westcoast ape Member+

    Nov 27, 2000
    Portland, OR
    I don't think we'll have an answer to this question until it is addressed in Portlandia.
     
  14. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PNW is also a reference to the location on the continent, not just the location within their respective countries.
     
  15. zensum

    zensum Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    The Bronx, NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    And yet for all the much deserved accolades both Portland and Vancouver tarp off some significant number of seats in MLS size stadiums. If we were to tarp off 7,000 seats and downsize the Arena to Portland's level our stadium would "look" a lot fuller that it currently does. Fully understand the comparative size of the markets but still small stadiums downsized with tarps must mean something...
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So.. Just to make sure.. You are aware that even though they do have tarped off areas, both are outdrawing your Red Bulls, right? Glass houses, my friend.. Glass houses.
     
  17. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Let me help you out with that. Read below. Philly and Toronto are PNW teams and they seem to be doing pretty alright themselves. The renaissance in KC seems to support the statement below rather than there is something in the water up in Seattle, Portland, Vancouver that makes them rabid soccer fans.

     
  18. zensum

    zensum Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    The Bronx, NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Of course I'm aware though these teams have only played a handful of games the jury is still out. My post however wasn't meant as a knock on either team just a question on how tarps fit with the narrative of absolute soccer hotbeds? Is Portland too small to support 20,000 seats?
     
  19. cleazer

    cleazer Member+

    May 6, 2003
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Speaking of perceptions about different regions of the country, wouldn't it be funny if MLS put a team in Orlando instead of Miami or Tampa and it actually turned out to be a successful Florida team?
     
  20. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    But your comments completely ignore the fact that the three Cascadia teams were also averaging big crowds in the 1970s and 1980s - before MLS existed. I am trying to find out why soccer has been popular in Cascadia for much longer than MLS has existed. So, saying it's popular in Cascadia because the three have been able to see what works and what doesn't work for other MLS teams does not explain why Vancouver, Portland and Seattle were averaging in the 20000s during their NASL peaks. Why was it big back then as well?
     
  21. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    No, but the facilities, walkways, etc in the stadium are.
     
  22. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I think the team FO's have been savvy, I'd point to three things that are also a factor:

    1) Previous great support for the team and ID with the team: check.
    2) Good downtown stadia locations
    3) Not a lot of other sports competition in the area (Seattle has 2, but do the Mariners count?)
     
  23. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    GVPATS thinks soccer has only existed in the US post 1994 and then only in MLS markets.
     
  24. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    clearly the USL teams were the secret to success for MLS in the PNW. Everyone knows the bearded fixie riders who made up their fanbases will jump aboard any bandwagon when they have the chance to be able to talk about how they liked something before it was cool and mainstream.
     
  25. Asprilla9

    Asprilla9 Member

    Dec 15, 2000
    Beaverton, OR
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no, that's not it. PTFC have over 12,000 season ticket holders with over 1,000 people on the waiting list for next season. Demand is not the problem. As previously mentioned, the stadium infrastructure is the problem. JWF can barely accommodate the 18,600 that they have now -- the concourse, bathrooms and concession stands are all ill-equipped to handle the crowds that they have now, much less adding 2-4k more people to the mix.

    Trust me, ownership know they are turning down a lot of extra revenue by tarping those 3,000k or so seats ... but they'd rather not sacrifice the satisfaction of the existing ticket holders just to jam those extra folks in. I'm sure this will be addressed in the near future though.
     

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