First off, its no secret that I don't rate JFT. But even his supporters tend to agree that he struggles against more physical opponents, and he isn't effective when a team is putting a lot of pressure on him. Furthermore, because he likes being a deep lying playmaker, his skill set can be offset by a bunkering defense. Basically, JFT is only effective in games where the isn't over matched physically, has time on the ball and teams are playing a fairly open style of play. This combination of factors virtually never happens in international soccer, but it describes the Liga MX to a T. It is easy to get caught up in his level of play in a league that perfectly suits his skills without exposing his weaknesses and then to think that those skills will translate to the National Team. But as technically proficient as he is, he doesn't have the speed of thought to keep pace at the international level and he lacks the physical presence and athleticism to make up for it.
I've never seen Torres play in Mexico before. When I see him with the US, I've found him to be weak on the ball and not particularly aggressive in trying to create attack. He plays a lot of square balls and drop passes. He doesn't add much in my opinion.
He isn't a wide player or a 10. But he is a pretty good 8. As an 8 I think he is international quality.
^^ This. IMO, he looks better when we can 'bring the attack'. Throw in Dempsey, Donovan, and our 'A' team around him, and he'll be able to generate more. Unless we're playing Brasil or Italy, he can still bring vision, ability to hold the ball under pressure... (given the right opponent) and can distribute quick 1 touch passes to start counter attacks. He is a different style of player that we can throw in to add some 'kick' if things get stale with two more 'enforcer' types in the midfield, like a Jones or Bradley. While yes, he isn't the kind of player that can create plays all by himself, do through balls, and hold pressure like a Riquelme, he can do SOMETHINGS which can shake things up off the bench, or starting vs. the right opponent (think vs. Costa Rica). SHould he be starting vs. ALL teams? No. Can he be a useful sub vs. Tired defensives that have killed their energy from pressuring too much? Maybe. Can he be a good starter vs. opponents that tend to give more 'space'? I think so....
Stopped reading after the first sentence... At least you admitted your bias. So, I will admit mine. I favored Torres for awhile because he brings a different "flavor" to this team. He is comfortable on the ball, has good vision, and ability to maintain possession in tight spaces. All is good to have when playing against bunkering teams or attempting to close out games. He is not a goal scorer, nor should that be his role or value to the team. However, based upon his play, he had not brought the value to the USMNT that I had hoped/expected when he first was called up to the team. He has struggled to connect with his teammates and has been inconsistent (part due to the position PK is playing him and part due to his own play). He has not maintained possession at time when I would expect him to... I don't buy into the comments that he is a poor defender. I don't buy into the assertion that he is not international quality. I will agree that he may not fit into the team depending on the style and players selected.
That's exactly what I think. Sometimes that's worth the roster spot and sometimes it isn't. It depends on who/where we're playing. I don't foresee him being much use against Jamaica. I think when we play Guatemala at home he might be one of our best players.
I think he is a borderline international-quality role-playing substitute on a 23-man roster. As I've written in the past, he's a Reyna-lite. Reyna was starting quality. Torres is a weaker player than Reyna. I would rarely start him, and he generally wouldn't make my 18-man game-day roster.
Again, list the depth of international quality left backs we had at our disposal from 2007-2011. I'll start: Ramiro Corrales.
so when dempsey isnt available who else fits the top of the triangle in the middle? (I could see donovan actually fitting nicely)
not sure how you went from your LB question to this, but we clearly are very weak in these type of players. We have some, but each has huge liability to their name.
It depends.... will he show his value during the year and a half before the WC? That is the question. No doubt he is for our NT, at a down moment.... but only time will tell. IMO, he can provide some help off the bench or starting vs. less pressuring teams. Other guys in our pool either lack his composure on the ball, or if they do have skill, lack the 'grit' and determination he has shown to go in for tackles, chase to 'press' (look at feilhaber and adu).... he's a good mix, of both...
Be where? In an 18 man gameday roster you have 7 subs. One of them is a GK, which leaves you with 6 field player subs. You want to have at least a couple of guys that can slot in on defense and you want at least one striker that you can bring off the bench...so lets say you have 3 spots open for midfielders. If you are running a 4 man midfield, that means 7 total midfielders on the game day roster. (for the purposes of this argument, I prefer Dempsey as a striker, which actually helps JFT as that means less competition in the midfield. And even if we are talking in terms of JKs preferred 4-5-1, Dempsey drops from striker to midfield so it doesn't change anything as Demps is definitely above JFT on the depth chart.) I think that Bradley, Donovan and Jones should be more or less automatic starters. So with 4 spots left, are there 4 guys that are better suited to wear the US jersey than JFT? For the benefit of JFT, we'll also assume that Edu's future is at CB. We'll also assume that guys like Fabian Johnson and Timmy Chandler would be listed on the game day roster as defenders, even though both would be more than capable of starting in the midfield. So, given all of that, are there 4 guys that are better than JFT? Brek Shea Kyle Beckerman Danny Williams Chris Pontius - Deserves look Sacha Kljesten - A bigger, stronger version of JFT who covers more ground and has been getting the job done for a perennial Champions League team in a better league than a lot of players that continue to get regular call ups and minutes. (JKs continued dismissal of Kljesten is inexplicable at this point).
IMO, Brasil in MD, after the 60ish minute. We started putting the knife to their necks at that point. Unlucky to score multiple goals. Perfect player to sub in, hold possession, play quick, 1 touch, tidy soccer.
He can be useful still against physical opposition. Look at Scotland match. However like I said for when Edu was at Rangers, he needs to go to a league which challenges his weaknesses & pushes him to become a better player. If Torres could build his body like for instance James Milner or Samir Nasri have over this past year or so (were smaller players, now bulked up), he would be EPL quality. The Mexican league doesnt focus on physicality like you said so this isnt something he will be able to fix playing in Mexico. Honestly, he would even make himself better playing in MLS strictly because of how physical it is & how it'd help him evolve.
kljesten has been unimpressive in his games with USMNT...like to see him move up to a higher league...stop drinking beer too.
LB? oh I was just saying bornstein had no business. no business being in there! NO BUSINESS! anyone know where thats from?
Certainly not Torres. Top of the triangle should be a play-maker, either an assist man or a goal scorer, or both. Torres is neither. Many years ago a small but relentless group of posters on BS used to hate Reyna for slowing down the US attack. Reyna was often miscast as a creative #10, when he really was a ball-circulating #8. Torres is a weaker version of Reyna and would be even more miscast as the top of the triangle creative player.