Why isn't Donovan in Europe ?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by soccerfan, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    saying MLS is single A is unfair and very inaccurate.
     
  2. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Here is my reason:

    1) Landon is still young today. His problem is that he is very easy to be influenced by some people.

    2) In this case, he is influenced by MLS people because MLS tried to use his star power to pump up the league.

    3) He had some bad experience in BL, but those old folks all gone. Bayer will treat him fair this time, and rated him very highly. So if he wants to play, they would let him play. He would get same or better treatment from media than in USA.

    4) The way MLS used him got him unfocused which affected his development, so he got some earful from both Arena and Yallop.

    5) After MLS got its new star "victim" Adu, the importance of MLS influence in Donovan will drop. So that is thet time he would move to Europe.

    6) Don't think about small club. A club as Arsenal or Man. U. will dream about to get Landon's service. Landon is a dynamic player. With world class players around, he is a lethal force on the field. His soccer brain, vision, pass, finishing, and especially his pace will kill a lot of defense.
     
  3. Beakmon FC

    Beakmon FC Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Jan 10, 2002
    The OC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmmm...maybe we'll find out when the transfer window opens in January!!
     
  4. clashcityrocker

    Mar 12, 1999
    In the shadow of RFK
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Before this year, I was of the opinion that San Jose was the best place for Donovan for the following reasons:
    1. He's happy there.
    2. He would get the experience of running an offence and being the man, which would help him in the long-run more than working his way into a Euro lineup.

    I had hoped that he would use his considerable skills to start taking over games, but this has happened too infrequently. I realize in hindsight that his performance in 2001 was possible given that the cast around him was more talented - Cerritos was a target and Lagos was a creative option and they took some of the heat off of him and allowed him space to be dangerous. San Jose doesn't have this this year, and Donovan hasn't been very consistent in putting his stamp on the game.

    At this point, I think he would be better off going abroad - he needs to be challenged again, and he needs to play in an environment where he is not the sole creative force on the team. This is why he often plays much better for the Nats - he has McBride or O'Brien or Beasley to play with and off of.
     
  5. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I think Donovan will be coming up on the biggest professional match of his career. When he won the MLS Cup he was not the focal point of the squad. This time he is, and he was horrendous vs LA in the opening leg. This is a great oppurtunity to show everybody that he really is worth all the hype. Great players have great days in Big Time games. He has what, a week to think about this? He must know that without him creating havoc that SJ will have no chance in winning this series.
     
  6. whip

    whip Member

    Aug 5, 2000
    HOUSTON TEXAS
    Wrong question!!!

    The question should be: Why MLS/USSF have not been able to capitalize on Landon Donovan wave to promote the sport and to rub on everybody that he is a 100 percent american soccer star???
     
  7. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Austin FC
    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I look for him to try to get something worked out soon for going to Europe, even though he keeps saying he's staying one more year. I think if Frank Yallop leaves (which I'm sure he will) and if Club America buys the Quakes, I just can't see LD staying around for another year with all the upheaval.
     
  8. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
  9. Femfa

    Femfa New Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I don't see that "upheaval" would really turn Donovan off. He learned some soccer skills and passable Spanish playing with Mexicans in SoCal club teams. The team could pick up serious amounts of fans with this move.

    BTW - Donovan worked hard to learn German - he gave World Cup interview in German during WC, so he's trilingual.

    Donovan's original Bayer coach was planning to play him when he was replaced. Vogts, the new coach, wouldn't give Donovan a chance, so Donovan was glad to get to MLS. The coach now, Toepmoeller, has said he believes in Donovan's talent, but their system right now doesn't need him. He did, however make sure to extend rights to Donovan, making him too expensive for most teams - and giving Bayer the option to recall him as they need. Yes, Donovan was miserable - he wasn't playing - but the homesickness has been blown out of proportion. He was willing to return to Europe on the condition that he play first team - Bayer passed on that offer.

    We get him in MLS for one more year, IMHO. I'm going to enjoy it. He's a great player. San Jose has a good year under his leadership. The MLS playoffs are unforgiving and a little flukey. Donovan didn't have a horrible game against the Galaxy - he lost his best teamate to injury, and the Galaxy are a good team that are finally playing to their potential.

    I, for one, can wait for Donovan to prove everyone who calls him a weenie wrong. He went to Europe at 16 - after beggin his parents to let him take a drastic step because he believed he had a chance there to go bigger than MLS. He works very hard at raising soccer's profile here in the U.S. - he works hard on and off the field to improve his skills. He's the last person who should be accused of slacking. Stop the playa hating - hate the financial game that limits Donovan's options.
     
  10. astabooty

    astabooty Member

    Nov 16, 2002
    China
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lets have a fun, honest look at level of leagues based on the players...

    best: serie a, la liga, epl
    german bundesliga (imo this league is a lil below those 3, but above the rest as well).
    pretty good to good, but also feeder leagues: french, turkish, portugese, brazilian, dutch, argentine, greek, etc if i missed any.
    you could then argue that mls is in the same category as mexico, colombia, russian, scottish, czech, etc, but it is still easily arguable to say those leagues are all better than mls.

    Bruce i am not saying you took this personally, but many ppl take it personal when ppl say other leagues are better than the mls. it is a simple fact. to say you arent proven until you play in those leagues is reasonable, its not to say that you cant have good players in a league that isnt at the top.
     
  11. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Orange Traffic Cone was a starting center back for Spurs?
     
  12. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I don't think he is the coach at Bayer anymore.
     
  13. astabooty

    astabooty Member

    Nov 16, 2002
    China
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think deportivo la corunas defense could use him and 3 clones right now!!! lol
    that really was one of the best posts ever.
     
  14. Femfa

    Femfa New Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    Los Angeles
    You're right, but he was the coach when Donovan's Bayer future was negotiated after the WC.

    Bayer hired Horster after Topp, then sacked him for another guy, . . . and jeez, I can't keep track after that.
     
  15. giggs88

    giggs88 Member

    May 11, 2003
    Virginia
    Re: Re: Why isn't Donovan in Europe ?

    :D
     
  16. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I don't take anything here personally so, no sweat there. I am more interested in a discussion of the issues. MLS is most defintiely top of the heap in club soccer- no doubt. But it is also true that we are seeing MLS players play well in the WC, play well when they move to EPL etc. So calling it single A is just not acurate.
     
  17. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Why isn't this thread in the Yanks Not Abroad section? It'd be quite a lively place.
     
  18. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because of the way the Organized Majors are structured, Single A is a LONG way from the Majors, particularly if you're not talking High-A. Because it's so very easy to move up talented players from the lower leagues, when guys succeed they're moved. No work permits, or contract purchases or anything. You tell the guy he's promoted and he's promoted.

    The end result is anybody who beats up Single A doesn't stay in Single A anymore. Not analagous to MLS.

    MLS might be more like the Cuban or Korean top Baseball Leagues. Lower than the majors, to be sure, but with players capable of being goog major leaguers but for various reasons don't make the switch. The US Independent Baseball Leagues, like the Northern League, are _probably_ a higher level of play than Single A, but I would say MLS is better than that level, because players good enough for the majors pretty much leave the Northern League at will (with the J.D. Drew and Bobby Hill types as exceptions).
     
  19. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can see him wanting to be on the first team but shouldn't he earn his playing time? I don't think starting for SJ would be considered earning playing time for first team BL. That boy needs to prove his worth,,,a few games in Korea doesn;t cut it either. the only way he should get first team playing time is to go over and prove he is worthy.
     
  20. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Austin FC
    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How can he prove he's worthy if they don't give him a chance. I mean, come on, they had him on the freakin reserves! He said his high school team could beat them. And yet he's supposed to jump at the chance to go back? I'll tell you, no other player who scored at WC and who is a mainstay on their national team would have to worry about having to play on the reserves. They would KNOW that they're being signed to at least sit on the bench of the first team, to at least get their fair shot. Donovan deserves the same recognition. Not that he's going to start, not that he's going to get playing time, but that he WON'T be sent to the reserves. It's only right.
     
  21. lplaksina

    lplaksina Member

    Jan 5, 2002
    Facts:

    Donovan left Germany because he wanted to get quality playing time. That wasn't about to happen with Bayer's reserves. (And he COULDN"T play for the senior team until he was 18)

    He never demanded to play on the first 11. He did demand that he be in the first 18 and be given an honest chance to make the 11.

    He has never said he wouldn't return to Europe.

    He did say he wouldn't return to Europe if he didn't get an honest chance to play.

    Thems the facts.
     
  22. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Once again I would like to shatter a common misconception on bigsoccer. I posted this in May:
    This was about three years ago, and Bayer was preparing for the upcoming Bundesliga season. They had a lenghty training camp in Switzerland, so Donovan spent a lot of time with the first team.

    Donovan got his chance, he simply wasn't good enough at the time to make Bayer's first team.
     
  23. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC
    Have you met Rivaldo? He's had a bit of a hard time getting onto the first team, getting a "fair shot" as you put it. He sits on the bench, consistently. Before you tell me that the bench isn't the reserves, I'll tell you that Rivaldo is ten times the player Donovan is, and shouldn't be sitting anywhere, but he is because that's his team's decision.

    Plus, Donovan signed when he was still a kid (16, iirc), long before he had any right to expect a spot in the top 18. There are no entitlements in soccer, and Leverkusen made it to Champions League final a couple of years ago. Where did he deserve to start on that team? Ahead of Ballack? He left the Leverkusen reserves BEFORE WC2002, before he was a star. He was a player with a solid youth scoring record, but he was still an unknown quantity as a professional. He had a chance to go back to them last year, post WC02 after they'd lost Ze Roberto and Ballack, when the team was struggling and needed help. Had he gone then, I think he would have made the top 18, but he stayed in MLS instead.

    Also, Leverkusen is in the winning soccer games business, not in the giving US players a "fair shot" business. If they decide that they bring along players a certain way and that he wasn't going to get time until they felt he was ready, that's their decision. Who eats the contract they signed when he was 16 if he turns out to be a dud? They do. He doesn't give them an "I suck" refund. It's their decision when to play him and when not to, not ours or his.

    Just because we all like him and wish him to be playing first team ball in the Bundesliga and scoring like a champ doesn't make it so. Shockingly, he is required to earn it first. At current, I think he's earned a shot. Two years ago when he left, he had not; there's no debating it.
     
  24. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    So we're gonna take disgruntled ex-players at their word now? I'm sure Ian Bishop is glad to know that.

    Why did Donovan come to MLS? I imagine it's because he realized while picking splinters out of his ass at the Olympics watching Josh Wolf and some college kid get the minutes that the only way he was gonna make the 2002 World Cup was by playing in MLS. He knew he'd start, and get the chance to prove his worth to Bruce. He also realized that it was unlikely that he would get enough time at Leverkusen between the Olympics on the World Cup to get on Bruce's radar. It was a smart decision.

    Bottom line, if Donovan had stayed in Germany he would have watched the WC at 4am like the rest of us.

    As for the rest...see the Rivaldo comment.
     
  25. lplaksina

    lplaksina Member

    Jan 5, 2002
    The second last thing on Donovan's agenda after the 2000 Olympics was making the 2002 WC team.
    He was more concerned with finding a team to play with. If you listen to him you'll see that he was most concerned with playing time. The WC spot didn't materialize until JM scored his qually goal.

    Thems the facts.
     

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